The soul of man

[eddif]

i thnk we are looking at it wrong, i dont think it was Jeremiah the man, it was the true self of Jeremiah.

Read Acts 8:34 again

The prophets spoke of things relating to Jesus. The acts 8 passage has more information than the verse I quoted.

If an ox can relate to a preacher, then s prophet can prophesy regarding Jesus.

I Peter 1:10 KJV
Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should comeunto you:

The prophets did not understand all they spoke. The New Testament lets us understand the concept.

One tribe revers the Eagle another tribe the Herron. We have scripture to put us on the same page and revere the same thing.

eddif

 

[Randy]

That did not answer the question I asked.

I didn't? Actually I have a Christian Mother who taught me to pray and about Jesus so as far back as my memory goes, (long before I understood a lot of the facts you speak of), I believed in Jesus. Something certainly took as to this day I still believe in the lord by Faith and its not one-sided as the Lord has responded to me over the years for me to know from His Spirit I am in Him and He in me.

But what you see as facts others see as a lie. But as I tell such people their unbelief doesn't make it a lie. So to answer your question I believe in the resurrection of Jesus but more important I have a relationship with Him. I know by the Spirit of Christ in me that He Lives!

 

[OzSpen]

I didn't? Actually I have a Christian Mother who taught me to pray and about Jesus so as far back as my memory goes, (long before I understood a lot of the facts you speak of), I believed in Jesus. Something certainly took as to this day I still believe in the lord by Faith and its not one-sided as the Lord has responded to me over the years for me to know from His Spirit I am in Him and He in me.

But what you see as facts others see as a lie. But as I tell such people their unbelief doesn't make it a lie. So to answer your question I believe in the resurrection of Jesus but more important I have a relationship with Him. I know by the Spirit of Christ in me that He Lives!

Would you be able to have a relationship with him without the fact that God exists and Jesus lived, was crucified, was buried and rose from the dead?

 

[Free]

im just going with what the passage says. the Most High knew him before He was born. when the scripture says "him" i dont think its referring to nonexistance. he was ordained, how is that done when there is nothing to ordain?

It is speaking of God’s foreknowledge and foreordination of Jeremiah as a prophet, nothing more.

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. (ESV)

Rom 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac,
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—(ESV)

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. (ESV)

God knows everything that will happen and as such preordains people to do certain tasks. Nowhere is it taught that any human preexisted physical conception.

 

[eddif]

Rednecks must think they know it all. Maybe it is because of ignorance.

The Father draws us to Jesus.
How?
By convincing us of sin (using the law lawfully is a way).

With this new found information that there is a wrath to come; we seek relief from eternal punishment.
..................
Then we hear the good news:
Jesus died fo take care of our sin. We need to believe to receive.
.......,,,,,
If we wish to help others we need the Holy
Spirit.

eddif

 

[eddif]

God knows everything that will happen and as such preordains people to do certain tasks. Nowhere is it taught that any human preexisted physical conception.

God also makes some aware of his foreknowledge through prophecy / dreams / visions / etc.

Amos 3:7 KJV
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Then what will the prophets do?
Announce the intention of God.

Always be aware seminary words are not used exactly as described by certain sects.

eddif

 

[Randy]

Would you be able to have a relationship with him without the fact that God exists and Jesus lived, was crucified, was buried and rose from the dead?

No, But again I except those things by faith. Jesus is alive! Others don't know Him. What you state is written in the testimony and there are no valid excuses for not accepting Jesus.

 

[chessman]

It is speaking of God’s foreknowledge and foreordination of Jeremiah as a prophet, nothing more.

Additionally, with respect to the question of when/where did Jerimaiah begin to be Jerimaiah... it tells us exactly when/where he was formed.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you came out from the womb I consecrated you; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”​

Jeremiah 1:5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Jeremiah 1:5&version=LEB

It does NOT say he was consecrated before the womb but rather in the womb.

 

[jaybird]

It is speaking of God’s foreknowledge and foreordination of Jeremiah as a prophet, nothing more.

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. (ESV)

Rom 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac,
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—(ESV)

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. (ESV)

God knows everything that will happen and as such preordains people to do certain tasks. Nowhere is it taught that any human preexisted physical conception.

no where does the bible explain what we were before our birth. i think thats a bit strange.
i agree the Father knows everything.but foreknowledge is not whats being taught in the Jer passage,its clear in the passeges you posted, but the Jer is not the same. He knew him before birth, He was consecrated, appointed, before his birth. if the passage said I knew you were going to be a prophet, anointed, etc, then you would have a point to the foreknowledge. but thats not what the passage says. there has to be something there to ordain, i dont thnk He is talking about ordaining nothingness.

 

[jaybird]

Additionally, with respect to the question of when/where did Jerimaiah begin to be Jerimaiah... it tells us exactly when/where he was formed.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you came out from the womb I consecrated you; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”​

Jeremiah 1:5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Jeremiah 1:5&version=LEB

It does NOT say he was consecrated before the womb but rather in the womb.

what are those words in bold?

 

[jaybird]

it makes no sense that we would exist after death but can not exist before death. its not specifically taught for or against.there are suggestive scriptures like the Jer passage. we know that most in the days of Jesus and the 12 believed this. but around 500 - 600 the church went on one of their crusades against this. something that had never been done before. why? why did the church fight so hard against this? this was one of several beliefs that was changed. you also have scriptures disappearing around the same time that did teach more on these ideas. just a coincidence.
i could care less what rome believed, i want to know what those people in the days of Jesus and before rome, what did they believed.

 

[chessman]

what are those words in bold?

Words that say something about when God had the ability to know, ordain and appoint Jerimaiah.

Is your OP about the soul of God or the soul of man??? If you were using this verse to prove God existed before Jeremiah existed, you’d have a point. However, it does NOT prove Jeremiah existed before he was formed in the womb. It proves he wasn’t formed in any other place besides the womb!

Before I __X___, I knew you.
Before _Y_, I consecrated you.

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you came out from the womb I consecrated you; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”​

Reading Jeremiah 1:5 tells us Jeremiah was formed in and came from____?

A. The womb.
B. Somwhere other than the womb.

I say A. What’s your answer?

 

[jaybird]

Words that say something about when God had the ability to know, ordain and appoint Jerimaiah.

Is your OP about the soul of God or the soul of man??? If you were using this verse to prove God existed before Jeremiah existed, you’d have a point. However, it does NOT prove Jeremiah existed before he was formed in the womb. It proves he wasn’t formed in any other place besides the womb!

Before I __X___, I knew you.
Before _Y_, I consecrated you.

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you came out from the womb I consecrated you; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”​

Reading Jeremiah 1:5 tells us Jeremiah was formed in and came from____?

A. The womb.
B. Somwhere other than the womb.

I say A. What’s your answer?

he was formed in the womb.
before that formation he was consecrated.

 

[Randy]

it makes no sense that we would exist after death but can not exist before death. its not specifically taught for or against.there are suggestive scriptures like the Jer passage. we know that most in the days of Jesus and the 12 believed this. but around 500 - 600 the church went on one of their crusades against this. something that had never been done before. why? why did the church fight so hard against this? this was one of several beliefs that was changed. you also have scriptures disappearing around the same time that did teach more on these ideas. just a coincidence.
i could care less what rome believed, i want to know what those people in the days of Jesus and before rome, what did they believed.

IF your starting point is formed in the body growing in the womb of your mother it makes perfect sense that you didn't exist prior to that point. Where our spirit ends up is in the hands of Jesus we would be weak and helpless in that form without a body.
Jesus preached to spirits in prison whose bodies died long ago in the days of Noah. How long do you think the time period was from Noah to Jesus's crucifixion as those spirits still existed? Ref 1peter 3:18-20

 

[chessman]

he was formed in the womb.
before that formation he was consecrated.

Sorry, but that’s clearly not what the verse says.
Jeremiah was formed in the womb and before he came out of the womb (before he was born) he was consecrated.

 

[Free]

no where does the bible explain what we were before our birth. i think thats a bit strange.

Why would that be strange if we didn't exist before birth? It logically follows that if we don't exist before birth, then the Bible won't explain what we were before our birth (because it would be illogical to do so).

i agree the Father knows everything.but foreknowledge is not whats being taught in the Jer passage,its clear in the passeges you posted, but the Jer is not the same. He knew him before birth, He was consecrated, appointed, before his birth. if the passage said I knew you were going to be a prophet, anointed, etc, then you would have a point to the foreknowledge. but thats not what the passage says. there has to be something there to ordain, i dont thnk He is talking about ordaining nothingness.

It is the same. You are using a single verse to come up with a doctrine that is nowhere else even implied in Scripture. That is simply not how to do things and that should be a huge red flag that your understanding is most likely not correct. I have my doubts that you would be able to find one reputable scholar or theologian that would agree with your position on Jer. 1:5.

 

[jaybird]

Sorry, but that’s clearly not what the verse says.
Jeremiah was formed in the womb and before he came out of the womb (before he was born) he was consecrated.

the birth is never mentioned. only the formation and what happened before the formation.

 

[jaybird]

Why would that be strange if we didn't exist before birth? It logically follows that if we don't exist before birth, then the Bible won't explain what we were before our birth (because it would be illogical to do so).

strange because time is not linear. einstein and tesla knew this and so did those in the days of Jesus and the 12.

It is the same. You are using a single verse to come up with a doctrine that is nowhere else even implied in Scripture. That is simply not how to do things and that should be a huge red flag that your understanding is most likely not correct. I have my doubts that you would be able to find one reputable scholar or theologian that would agree with your position on Jer. 1:5.

of course most theologians would argue against it. they will never in a million years think outside what the mainstream group says. and most the theologians in the days of Jesus and the 12 did believe it. it was never taught against until rome, the enemy of Jesus and the 12 started teaching against it.

 

[Free]

strange because time is not linear. einstein and tesla knew this

That is just one view, a theory. Don't state it as fact. For all intents and purposes, it's linear. Biblically speaking, time began and will end, hence it is linear.

and so did those in the days of Jesus and the 12.

Proof please.

of course most theologians would argue against it. they will never in a million years think outside what the mainstream group says.

This has nothing to do with thinking outside the box; it has everything to do with what the Bible says. If you think you have some novel new idea about something Scripture says, chances are exceedingly high that it is wrong. There is only one who existed before they were conceived, and that is Jesus.

Again, you are taking a single verse and making a doctrine from it. That is a serious mistake.

and most the theologians in the days of Jesus and the 12 did believe it. it was never taught against until rome, the enemy of Jesus and the 12 started teaching against it.

Please leave comments about Rome out of it. And please, once again, provide proof that "most theologians in the days of Jesus and the 12 did believe it." I'm seeing a whole lot of conjecture from you but no substance, no evidence.

 

[chessman]

the birth is never mentioned.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”​

Jeremiah 1:5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Jeremiah 1:5&version=NASB