THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD

[jeremiah1five]

Hates.

That he is and his law specifically forbids putting an innocent man to death.

And yet that's exactly what God did in smiting His Son on a cross.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

And yet that's exactly what God did in smiting His Son on a cross.

No that's not what God did in smiting his Son on the cross. The Shepherd was smitten by our Father this way,

For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. Pro.3:12

no chastening of the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Heb.12:11

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Heb.12:6

I know, O LORD, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me. Psa.119:75

This is "the chastisement of our peace" (Isa.53), which Christ didn't exempt himself from.

Evil men punished Jesus as a sinner, not our Father.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No that's not what God did in smiting his Son on the cross. The Shepherd was smitten by our Father this way,

For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. Pro.3:12

no chastening of the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Heb.12:11

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Heb.12:6

I know, O LORD, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me. Psa.119:75

This is "the chastisement of our peace" (Isa.53), which Christ didn't exempt himself from.

Evil men punished Jesus as a sinner, not our Father.

The Perfect, Holy, Righteous Son of God did not need 'chastening.'
He was Perfect and without sin neither was guile found in His mouth.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The Perfect, Holy, Righteous Son of God did not need 'chastening.'
He was Perfect and without sin neither was guile found in His mouth.

You nailed it. We're the ones who need correction. We're the ones who need to be conformed to his image.....the image of God. Now look,

Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. 1Pet.2:21

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 1Pet.4:1

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father...Mt.5:44-45

Our Savior annuled the law by not enforcing it against his enemies. If he called the law as a witness, we'd all be dead.

 

[Free]

God knowing something will happen, doesn't mean he wanted it to happen. Like Josephs' brothers selling him into slavery,

ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good Gen.50:20

Are you sure about that? That seems to rather limit God.

According to the will of our Father, his Son as a man, as a human being, strove against bringing sinners to judgement by a law that would have put them to death,

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4

Striving against the sin being committed against us.....as our Savior did.

Act 2:23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

The verse also says it was God's "definite plan." That isn't just foreknowledge.

And again:

Act 4:26 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed’—
Act 4:27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
Act 4:28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. (ESV)

Jesus's death for our sins was God's plan to satisfy his wrath against sinners.

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. (ESV)

Heb 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (ESV)

1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. (ESV)

1Jn 4:9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. (ESV)

We only have salvation because of Christ's propitiatory sacrifice. That was God's plan the whole time; there was and is no other way to be reconciled to God than through Jesus dying in our place.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Are you sure about that? That seems to rather limit God.

I don't know why you say that. God often takes bad sitiations and uses it for his glory and believers welfare.

Act 2:23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

The verse also says it was God's "definite plan." That isn't just foreknowledge.

And again:

Act 4:26 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed’—
Act 4:27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
Act 4:28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. (ESV)

Jesus's death for our sins was God's plan to satisfy his wrath against sinners.

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. (ESV)

Heb 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (ESV)

1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. (ESV)

1Jn 4:9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. (ESV)

We only have salvation because of Christ's propitiatory sacrifice. That was God's plan the whole time; there was and is no other way to be reconciled to God than through Jesus dying in our place.

Propitiation means he turned his wrath away from those who sinned against him. Look at what the law says. Our Savior was being greatly sinned against and showed mercy by not killing his enemies. Why is that hard to understand?

 

[Free]

I don't know why you say that. God often takes bad sitiations and uses it for his glory and believers welfare.

He does but that isn’t what I was addressing. I was addressing your argument: “God knowing something will happen, doesn't mean he wanted it to happen.”

Propitiation means he turned his wrath away from those who sinned against him. Look at what the law says. Our Savior was being greatly sinned against and showed mercy by not killing his enemies. Why is that hard to understand?

Propitiation means he turned the wrath of God from all sinners. That is what makes salvation possible. His death is clearly linked to our redemption; it is what saves us.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

He does but that isn’t what I was addressing. I was addressing your argument: “God knowing something will happen, doesn't mean he wanted it to happen.”

Our Father did not want his creation to hate him. He did want his Son and we who believe in him to show lost people the love of God.

Propitiation means he turned the wrath of God from all sinners.

Jesus is God. He turned his own wrath away from sinners.

That is what makes salvation possible. His death is clearly linked to our redemption; it is what saves us.

Yes it is. The Son is exactly as our Father is,

But he, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and destroyed them not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath. Psa.78:38

When judgement day comes, the unrepentant will be condemned for sinning against him.

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Lk.21:36