The teachings (doctrine) of Christ; The Truth

[JLB]

Reference - http://truthseekersfellowship.com/gods-requirements/


The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (John 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1John 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son.

Teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS may be indicated by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.


I would like to discuss the reference you made about Christ’s teachings which I will also refer to as the truth.

The statement that I’m addressing -

“Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.”

I believe as I think you also believe that the words of Jesus Christ are referred to as the truth in the New Testament.

I hope we can have a fruitful discussion and seek to find common ground through the scriptures.


Here is just one of many scriptures that I believe teach us that taking heed to and therefore apply to our lives the teachings of Christ are essential to our salvation.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


There are of course more but I will start with this one.



Thanks. JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Reference - http://truthseekersfellowship.com/gods-requirements/


The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (John 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1John 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son.

Teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS may be indicated by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.


I would like to discuss the reference you made about Christ’s teachings which I will also refer to as the truth.

The statement that I’m addressing -

“Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.”

I believe as I think you also believe that the words of Jesus Christ are referred to as the truth in the New Testament.

I hope we can have a fruitful discussion and seek to find common ground through the scriptures.


Here is just one of many scriptures that I believe teach us that taking heed to and therefore apply to our lives the teachings of Christ are essential to our salvation.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


There are of course more but I will start with this one.



Thanks. JLB

OK
Found it.

I would also be interested in knowing EXACTLY what Groovy believes is not absolutely necessary for salvation.

And if he's using the Didache as a reference point.

 

[JLB]

OK
Found it.

I would also be interested in knowing EXACTLY what Groovy believes is not absolutely necessary for salvation.

And if he's using the Didache as a reference point.

Not the Didache.

Didache is the Greek for doctrine or teaching.

In 2 John 9, the word “doctrine” in the Greek is Didache.

 

[JLB]

OK
Found it.

I would also be interested in knowing EXACTLY what Groovy believes is not absolutely necessary for salvation.

And if he's using the Didache as a reference point.

I’m sure he will answer your question, once he finds this link.

Let’s be sure to allow him to address each one of our questions.

Have you gone to his site and read what he is teaching?

I don’t want this discussion to turn into the typical “Calvinist” back and forth.

Hopefully we can find some common ground.

This particular thread will hopefully focus on the teachings of Jesus Christ and the importance of following them and how a born again Christian can indeed find themselves in real trouble by ignoring what Jesus taught.

 

[JLB]

I would also be interested in knowing EXACTLY what @Groovy believes

I copied and pasted from his site the topic I wanted to discuss in this thread.

Primarily these two statements.

• This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.

• The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not the Didache.

Didache is the Greek for doctrine or teaching.

In 2 John 9, the word “doctrine” in the Greek is Didache.


View attachment 21835

OK.
I understand.
He's using the word DIDACHE to mean TEACHING.

 

[GodsGrace]

I copied and pasted from his site the topic I wanted to discuss in this thread.

Primarily these two statements.

• This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.

• The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved.

I'm questioning the same and have tagged him, so he should get here eventually.

 

[Groovy]

Reference - http://truthseekersfellowship.com/gods-requirements/


The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (John 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1John 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son.

Teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS may be indicated by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.


I would like to discuss the reference you made about Christ’s teachings which I will also refer to as the truth.

The statement that I’m addressing -

“Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.”

I believe as I think you also believe that the words of Jesus Christ are referred to as the truth in the New Testament.

I hope we can have a fruitful discussion and seek to find common ground through the scriptures.

Here is just one of many scriptures that I believe teach us that taking heed to and therefore apply to our lives the teachings of Christ are essential to our salvation.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

There are of course more but I will start with this one.



Thanks. JLB

Okay, I made it here! Yay!
Now I will explain the difference indicated in Scripture between the essential Gospel (God's requirement for salvation or GRFS) that must be the content of saving faith at least implicitly and secondary doctrines that are needed for spiritual growth after belief in the Gospel. I will begin at the beginning of Lesson 2 in our website.

[[A crisis that threatened a Philippian jailer with death prompted him to ask Paul and Silas the most important question in life: “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30) This question is most important, because—as sinful and mortal souls—we need saving from corruption, both moral and physical. We need saving from physical death if we value or enjoy life, and we need saving from immorality or evil-doing if it results in unhappy existence, especially after this lifetime.

The reply of Paul and Silas was this: “Believe in the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 16:31) This is GRFS in a nutshell. Jesus Himself expressed GRFS even more succinctly using three, four and five letter words: “Ask… seek… knock…” (Matt. 7:7). GRFS may be denoted by the use of the Greek word kerygma, meaning proclamation or preaching, referring to the good news (Gospel) concerning salvation to heaven and from a just hell (the DOD, cf. Rom. 1:16, Gal. 1:6-12, Col. 1:21-23). This Gospel was preached by Peter (in Acts 2:22-24) and summarized by Paul (in 1Cor. 15:1-8). The salient points include: Jesus was a man, accredited by God (to be Messiah), who died on a cross, but who was raised or resurrected from the dead. Messiah is the Way to heaven.

Skipping the rabbit I chase on the website at this point regarding an obvious question to ask, “What is GRFS for those who have never heard of Jesus?”, we will continue by noting that the kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion. Some statements (e.g. Acts 16:31, quoted previously, & Eph. 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and others (e.g. Matt. 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. Gal. 6:7-9 & Eph. 2:10) are in terms of behaving right. This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works?

The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.” As Jesus stated (in John 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (John 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1John 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son.

Okay, I am not finished explaining the kerygma, but rather than dump the whole load I would like to pause at this point and see if everyone is tracking. Any questions, comments, feedback or need for clarification so far?

Over...

 

[JLB]

Okay, I made it here! Yay!
Now I will explain the difference indicated in Scripture between the essential Gospel (God's requirement for salvation or GRFS) that must be the content of saving faith at least implicitly and secondary doctrines that are needed for spiritual growth after belief in the Gospel. I will begin at the beginning of Lesson 2 in our website.

[[A crisis that threatened a Philippian jailer with death prompted him to ask Paul and Silas the most important question in life: “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30) This question is most important, because—as sinful and mortal souls—we need saving from corruption, both moral and physical. We need saving from physical death if we value or enjoy life, and we need saving from immorality or evil-doing if it results in unhappy existence, especially after this lifetime.

The reply of Paul and Silas was this: “Believe in the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 16:31) This is GRFS in a nutshell. Jesus Himself expressed GRFS even more succinctly using three, four and five letter words: “Ask… seek… knock…” (Matt. 7:7). GRFS may be denoted by the use of the Greek word kerygma, meaning proclamation or preaching, referring to the good news (Gospel) concerning salvation to heaven and from a just hell (the DOD, cf. Rom. 1:16, Gal. 1:6-12, Col. 1:21-23). This Gospel was preached by Peter (in Acts 2:22-24) and summarized by Paul (in 1Cor. 15:1-8). The salient points include: Jesus was a man, accredited by God (to be Messiah), who died on a cross, but who was raised or resurrected from the dead. Messiah is the Way to heaven.

Skipping the rabbit I chase on the website at this point regarding an obvious question to ask, “What is GRFS for those who have never heard of Jesus?”, we will continue by noting that the kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion. Some statements (e.g. Acts 16:31, quoted previously, & Eph. 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and others (e.g. Matt. 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. Gal. 6:7-9 & Eph. 2:10) are in terms of behaving right. This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works?

The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.” As Jesus stated (in John 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (John 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1John 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son.

Okay, I am not finished explaining the kerygma, but rather than dump the whole load I would like to pause at this point and see if everyone is tracking. Any questions, comments, feedback or need for clarification so far?

Over...

Thank you. I’m glad you made it.

I was hoping you would address my post with the main point I listed.

• This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.

• The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved.

I believe that the didache, the doctrine of Christ is very necessary for born again Christians to continue in salvation or remain in Christ whereas you believe it is not.

That’s the only point from your writings I am wanting to discuss.

Here is the scripture I posted that addresses this issue.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

If you would like for me to list a specific scripture from His teachings I will.



Thanks for your time to discuss these things.



JLB

 

[Groovy]

Thank you. I’m glad you made it.

I was hoping you would address my post with the main point I listed.

• This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation.
• The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved.

I believe that the didache, the doctrine of Christ is very necessary for born again Christians to continue in salvation or remain in Christ whereas you believe it is not.
That’s the only point from your writings I am wanting to discuss.

Here is the scripture I posted that addresses this issue.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

If you would like for me to list a specific scripture from His teachings I will.

Thanks for your time to discuss these things.
JLB

JLB, Patience my brother, I understand your question, but just as Scripture needs to be interpreted in context, so does the didache need to be discussed in connection with the kerygma, so please allow me to continue with my train of thought as others may want to join us. We now arrive at the didache station.

Teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS may be indicated by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (Matt. 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per Gal. 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache. The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or sinners who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime. A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s grace.

Okay, hopefully JLB is happy now, but I am still not finished explaining the kerygma and didache. Again, I would like to pause and see if someone has a question, comment, feedback or need for clarification.