The Theology of Self Examination, testing to see whether one is "in the faith"

[gordon777]

But you don't even understand the greatest commandment. I and others have given the meaning of it, yet you refuse to address any rebuttals to your position.


Yes, you do, as is evidenced by your taking verses out of context and ignoring the meaning of the words that are used.

You are not correcting anyone or anything, you are only denying the acknowledgment of godliness.

 

[grace2]

But you don't even understand the greatest commandment.

I know that's what you claim.

Be careful falsely testify against His servant's faith.

It is God's call, not yours.

Trin churches have been twisting what it says.

 

[gordon777]

My faith is not my idea.

Please don't falsely testify about my faith.

Jesus was sent to us to teach us about God's kingdom and how to love God and love one another.

And He taught His apostles everything about the gospel for His God, the Father.

Jesus says He is the Teacher and not to let anyone call you a Teacher.

Love is by stopping your talking, unless you love your talking too much/own self.

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

 

[gordon777]

If you moderators cant even be seen to agree to the single verse they try to use as their defence, why should they remain being moderators ?

 

[grace2]

Love is by stopping your talking, unless you love your talking too much/own self.

I am talking about what the Bible says and what Jesus says and the rest of God's people, not my own.

I am only a follower and servant.

 

[gordon777]

Anyone tell me the answer ?

Also, those same moderators try to teach others, come on now stop it.

 

[gordon777]

I am talking about what the Bible says and what Jesus says and the rest of God's people, not my own.

I am only a follower and servant.

You answered well, lovers of their owns elves cannot stop loving in word and tongue/their mission

 

[gordon777]

Quickly.immediately you guys are seen to have no right understanding, I rest my case, unless you want to show why you insist on making people go to hear the deceivers in churches.

 

[gordon777]

The moderators strength is zero, all of them on the forum, surely it shows people they should leave quickly, or believe in people who receive no correction, and only want to constantly give correction. ( what forums are)

 

[gordon777]

I stay away for a day, or longer, and what is achieved in that time, while I am away, nothing whatsoever, the same as 15-20 years of the forum, what has been learned at all, by anyone ?

 

[grace2]

Quickly.immediately you guys are seen to have no right understanding, I rest my case, unless you want to show why you insist on making people go to hear the deceivers in churches.

In my experience churches or organizations, especially trin churches, they are not interested in being true to God and Jesus.

It is much better to read the Bible yourselves, to get to know what God and Jesus say about God's kingdom.

A lukewarm attitude will not make it as Jesus says.

the Bible says "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind."

This is a heavy statement.

God cannot be mocked.

 

[Free]

Your word study doesn't disprove compound unity in Deuteronomy, only that echad is also found denoting a singular item elsewhere.

My word study does disprove what you said by showing that 'echad does not automatically refer to a compound unity; it can but it is context dependent. The context of Deut 6:4 isn't that of a compound unity. It is simply "one." It is a statement of monotheism and to worship Yahweh alone.

Genesis 1:26 is another example:

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." (Gen. 1:26 NKJ)

The plural “We” was regarded by the fathers and earlier theologians almost unanimously as indicative of the Trinity: modern commentators, on the contrary, regard it either as pluralis majestatis; or as an address by God to Himself, the subject and object being identical; or as communicative, an address to the spirits or angels who stand around the Deity and constitute His council. The last is Philo’s explanation: διαλέγεται ὁ τῶν ὅλων πατὴρ ταῖς ἑαυτοῦ δυνάμεσιν (δυνάμεις = angels).-Keil, C. F., & Delitzsch, F. (1996). Commentary on the Old Testament (Vol. 1, p. 38). Hendrickson.

I agree with the fathers, most today go with pluralis majestatis, but that is a fiction forced upon those who do not believe scripture truly is Revelation from God, therefore words cannot convey ideas they consider unknown to its human writers.

You quote Hebrew scholars, so will I D. Fruchtenbaum of Ariel Ministries:

Since Elohim created the universe and the earth, R. A. Torrey continues the argument that the Elohim is plural, which includes the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in creation. He states the following in relation to Elohim, which adds further information to chapter 2 of this book and implies the Holy Spirit, as well as the Father and Son in creation, was Elohim:

Why did the Hebrews, with their unquestionable and intense monotheism, use a plural name for God? This was the question that puzzled the Hebrew grammarians and lexicographers of the past, and the best explanation that they could arrive at was the plural of God here used was ‘the pluralis majestatis,’ that is, the plural of majesty. But this explanation is entirely inadequate. To say nothing of the fact that the pluralis majestatis in the Old Testament is a figure of very doubtful occurrence—I have not been able to find any place in the Old Testament where it is clear that the pluralis majestatis is used—but in addition to that, even if it were true that the pluralis majestatis does occur in the Old Testament, there is another explanation for the use of a plural name for God that is far nearer at hand and far more adequate and satisfactory, and that is, that the Hebrew inspired writers used a plural name for God, in spite of their intense monotheism, because there is a plurality of person in the one Godhead.1034
1034 R. A. Torrey, The Holy Spirit (New York: Revell, 1927), 21–22.
Fruchtenbaum, D. A. G. (2010). Foreword. In Discovering the Mystery of the Unity of God: A Theological Study on the Plurality and Tri-unity of God in the Hebrew Scriptures (pp. 338–339). Ariel Ministries.

This doesn't have anything to do with the use of 'echad.

 

[Free]

I stay away for a day, or longer, and what is achieved in that time, while I am away, nothing whatsoever, the same as 15-20 years of the forum, what has been learned at all, by anyone ?

Nothing is achieved when you're here either. Go figure.

 

[Free]

Any church that has one teacher/ a pastor/priest, is break0ng the following scripture you quoted.

How can people exhort one another, by hearing only one doing the exhorting/teaching.

Who says those things are mutually exclusive and that both can't be done? Or is church for you only the service from 10:30-12:00? You seem to often present false dichotomies.

You don't agree that only some are gifted as teachers (1 Cor 12:28, 29; Eph 4:11) and that not many should become teachers (James 3:1)?

 

[Free]

I know that's what you claim.

Be careful falsely testify against His servant's faith.

It is God's call, not yours.

Trin churches have been twisting what it says.

I have given what the meaning of the word "one" actually is and what Deut 6:4 and Mark 12:29 are and are not saying. Why should I be careful when you are coming against God's Church? Notice the hypocrisy in your statements--"Be careful falsely testify against His servant's faith" and "Trin churches have been twisting what it says."

You are the one that needs to be careful.

It is much better to read the Bible yourselves, to get to know what God and Jesus say about God's kingdom.

That isn't biblical. While we should do that on our own time, not going to church is sin. Firstly, because God says so in Heb 12, and secondly, because God has gifted only some as teachers (1 Cor 12:28-29; Eph 4:11), and how much more they're needed now that we're almost 2,000 years later. We are to learn from those who are gifted to teach. That is the way God has set up his Church.

the Bible says "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind."

This is a heavy statement.

God cannot be mocked.

Then use your mind and actually look into the things that have been presented to you. To simply dismiss them without addressing them or even showing that you're trying to understand them, is to not love God with all your mind.

 

[Free]

If you moderators cant even be seen to agree to the single verse they try to use as their defence, why should they remain being moderators ?

Anyone tell me the answer ?

Also, those same moderators try to teach others, come on now stop it.

Quickly.immediately you guys are seen to have no right understanding, I rest my case, unless you want to show why you insist on making people go to hear the deceivers in churches.

The moderators strength is zero, all of them on the forum, surely it shows people they should leave quickly, or believe in people who receive no correction, and only want to constantly give correction. ( what forums are)

Any further comments such as this and you will be removed from this discussion. Your pride is not welcome here. Please contribute to the topic or post in a different thread.

 

[gordon777]

Who says those things are mutually exclusive and that both can't be done? Or is church for you only the service from 10:30-12:00? You seem to often present false dichotomies.

You don't agree that only some are gifted as teachers (1 Cor 12:28, 29; Eph 4:11) and that not many should become teachers (James 3:1)?

First of all you are misquoting Hebrews 10:24.

Looking earlier in Hebrews, we notice the exact same exhortation, of while it is called to day. ( as we see the day approaching. Hebrews 10:24.)

To exhort one another, to not be hardened through pride, with an evil heart of unbelief.

To consider one another to provoke unto love and good works, exhorting one another, to not sin wilfully after the knowledge of truth is received, or there is no more sacrifice for sins.

If you present something true, show how your church does these things, how each other is exhorted to not sin. ( especially when your doctrine on the forum is that we are not perfect./perfected in love.)



Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

 

[gordon777]

You don't agree that only some are gifted as teachers (1 Cor 12:28, 29; Eph 4:11) and that not many should become teachers (James 3:1)?

Do you agree with me, that 1 Corinthians 12:28-31, has a better way shown ?


1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.


Do those prophets set in the church continue ? NO. PROPHECIES SHALL FAIL WAS TOLD.

Those speaking with Tongues continue ? NO. Tongues shall cease. ( tongues was for a sign to NON BELIEVERS, which was fulfilled. 1 Corinthians 14:22.)

That which is perfect ( Jesus Christ) was come, ( the antichrist denies and does not confess, that Christ/who is perfect, has come in the flesh. 1 John 4:3. 2 John 1:7.)

We become a man in God, no longer a child, understanding as a child is when we had the worse way, of teachers, prophets, miracles, gifts of healing, helps, governments, tongues, and even Apostles.


1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


Charity the more excellent way, is when we see face to face, no longer darkly through a glass.

The reason we no longer have the Apostles also, is because of many of satans ministers in the churches, who as testified, are false apostles. ( the Apostle Paul has told us what would occur after his departing, in those churches.



Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[gordon777]

Eph 4:11) and that not many should become teachers (James 3:1)?

What were those Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers given for at first ?

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, unto the knowledg of the Son of man, unto a perfect man. ( against your doctrine of us not being made perfect in love/not comiting sin.)

Henceforth ( after the teachers were taken away.) we cannot be tossed to and fro, by any cunning craftiness and every wind of doctrine, by those who lie in wait to deceive. ( that is when the wolves entered the flock, and false apostles are the ministers as told.)

But, the better way shown was charity, which replaced what was done at first, so that the wolves entering the flock never was going to effect the true church, of those who no longer are as children, seeing darkly, but seeing Christ as we are seen by Him.


Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

[gordon777]

and that not many should become teachers (James 3:1)?

Greater condemnation comes on the masters/teachers, and the reason for that is told elsewhere too.


James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.



We have the unction from the Holy One, to know all things. ( that is when we stopped being as children, and became a man to put away foolish things/prophecies/tongues. 1 Corinthians 13:11.)

We are told about those antichrists, ( who deny that which was perfect, has come.)

We are written to, about those who seduce us. ( ministers of satan/false apostles.) but the anointing we have received of Christ, means we need no man to teach us, as the same anointing teaches us all things, ( 1 John 2:20. We know all things/charity the better way than teachers, ( wolves entered the flock/church, and men lie in wait to deceive before we are in the unity of the faith to be a perfect man/when that which was perfect was come. Ephesians 4:13-14. 1 Corinthians 13:10.) charity believes all things. 1 Corinthians 12:31. 1 Corinthians 13:7.



1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.