The Tower of "Babel"

[P31Woman]

You do realize the Bible was written by men? God did not sit down with ink and quill and pen anything in the Bible. The authors claimed to be anointed and divinely inspired, but I have given reasons for those in another thread. Every single word written in the Bible was done so by human hands.

Having said that, Christians don't read the same OT of the Bible that Orthodox Jews [Hebrews] do. I try to bridge that gap by looking at various English translations, and then the actual Hebrew and Greek [NT] versions. From there it goes into textual criticism, hermeneutics, transliteration, and a whole pot full of linguistic processes.

Furthermore, the Bible was written in a time and culture far different than what is present today. If you think of things in today's terms, you have lost context. Most Christians don't go as deep into apologetics and theology as I do, but given that I am working toward my PhD in Theology, it is to be expected.

Penned by man but breathed by God.

To write His word God used an Egpytian Prince, soldier, preist, king, queen, housewife, rich farmer, poor farmer, scribe, prophet, prime minister, cupbearer, tax collector, evangelist, physician, wealthy fisherman, poor fisherman, carpenters, and a tent maker. The geographical locations include a desert, Mt, Sinai, Palestine, Egyt, Isle of Patmos, Babylon, Persia, Corinth, Ephesus, Ceasarea, and Rome. They various styles range from history, prophecy, law, poetry, proverb form, doctorial form, symbolic form to autobiography and biography.

God began with a single writter in the 6th century AD and then allowed that author to die after only 5 chapters of the book were completed. Then over the next 1,000 years God used approximately 30 free lance writters to begin to write at differant times, in differant locations, and had differant language, occupations and backgrounds, educational levels yet they all wrote chapters that interconnected with one another perfectly. Then God stopped.

Nothing was added to God's book from the 16th to the 12th century when all of a sudden you had this outburst of new authors 8 in total who wrote the last chapters of God's book to man.

Pretty amazing book this Bible God have us. The UNITY contained in this book is nothing less than a work of God.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Penned by man but breathed by God.

The geographical locations include a desert, Mt, Sinai, Palestine, Egyt, Isle of Patmos, Babylon, Persia, Corinth, Ephesus, Ceasarea, and Rome.

This is not an impressive argument. First, you boldly attribute every single verse of the Bible to The Creator of the Universe. Then, you list an unbelievably limited amount of geographical locations that our most prolific traveling modern day apes would scoff at.

 

[P31Woman]

This is not an impressive argument. First, you boldly attribute every single verse of the Bible to The Creator of the Universe. Then, you list an unbelievably limited amount of geographical locations that our most prolific traveling modern day apes would scoff at.

OK I believe you understand the mind of an ape. I won't argue that point.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

OK I believe you understand the mind of an ape. I won't argue that point.

I do, and thanks for conceding the point. Contrary to popular belief, conceding a point to an unavoidable reality is an admirable move.

 

[P31Woman]

I do, and thanks for conceding the point. Contrary to popular belief, conceding a point to an unavoidable reality is an admirable move.

Your welcome!

 

[WIP]

I would like to offer this reminder.

From our SoF: We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs, a complete and final written revelation from God.

From our ToS: 2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Please read: Statement of Faith

This is the second time I've posted this. Let's keep it in mind.

 

[Vanguard]

Penned by man but breathed by God.

Opinionated assumption, though commonly accepted.

God began with a single writter in the 6th century AD and then allowed that author to die after only 5 chapters of the book were completed.

Uhm, Jerome was a 4th century AD monk who was translating from Hebrew and Greek into Latin. Not sure who you refer to.

Then over the next 1,000 years God used approximately 30 free lance writters to begin to write at differant times, in differant locations, and had differant language, occupations and backgrounds, educational levels yet they all wrote chapters that interconnected with one another perfectly. Then God stopped.

Nothing was added to God's book from the 16th to the 12th century when all of a sudden you had this outburst of new authors 8 in total who wrote the last chapters of God's book to man.

Perhaps you have your time periods mixed up? Are you referring to BC or AD...you mentioned AD above, and it was wrong.

 

[P31Woman]

Opinionated assumption, though commonly accepted.



Uhm, Jerome was a 4th century AD monk who was translating from Hebrew and Greek into Latin. Not sure who you refer to.



Perhaps you have your time periods mixed up? Are you referring to BC or AD...you mentioned AD above, and it was wrong.

LOL good catch. That would be BC

 

[Vanguard]

Let's get back on topic...

The Tower of Babel: literal, metaphorical, allegorical or etiology?

 

[P31Woman]

NASB: GENESIS 11:1-9

1 Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words.

2 It came about as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks and burn them thoroughly.†And they used brick for stone, and they used tar for mortar.

4 They said, “Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.â€

5 The Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.

6 The Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them.

7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.â€

8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city.

9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of the whole earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of the whole earth.



Is this story a literal account, a parable, metaphorical, allegorical, or perhaps simply an etiology (a story, whether it is fact or fiction, that simple explains the origin of something)?

Multiple cultures throughout the ancient world had a "Tower of Babel" story, though the time period, name and location differed by culture. Some of those cultures claim that their tower was over [~600 feet] high, while others claim to measure more than [~5 miles] high.

My view is that it is simply an etiology. No one really knew why there were different languages, so a story evolved to explain the phenomenon.

Opinions?

Many cultures also have a "flood" story as well. Could it be there is some "truth" in these stories? How could these simular stories arise from differant locations among groups who did not speak the same language?

 

[Vanguard]

Many cultures also have a "flood" story as well. Could it be there is some "truth" in these stories? How could these simular stories arise from differant locations among groups who did not speak the same language?

That is covered in another thread.

 

[P31Woman]

Opinionated assumption, though commonly accepted.



Uhm, Jerome was a 4th century AD monk who was translating from Hebrew and Greek into Latin. Not sure who you refer to.



Perhaps you have your time periods mixed up? Are you referring to BC or AD...you mentioned AD above, and it was wrong.

It is not an ASSUMPTION that the Bible was penned by man but breathed by God.

That is the "clear" teaching of scripture.

[You do realize the Bible was written by men? God did not sit down
with ink and quill and pen anything in the Bible. The authors claimed to be
anointed and divinely inspired, but I have given reasons for those in
another thread. Every single word written in the Bible was done so by human
hands.





Having said that, Christians don't read the same OT of the Bible that
Orthodox Jews [Hebrews] do. I try to bridge that gap by looking at various
English translations, and then the actual Hebrew and Greek [NT] versions. From
there it goes into textual criticism, hermeneutics, transliteration, and a whole
pot full of linguistic processes.





Furthermore, the Bible was written in a time and culture far different than
what is present today. If you think of things in today's terms, you have lost
context. Most Christians don't go as deep into apologetics and theology as I do,
but given that I am working toward my PhD in Theology, it is to be
expected./QUOTE]

The men who penned God's word did NOT claim to be anointed and divinely inspired.

If you want to know the truth open up the scriptures and ask God to open your eyes.

 

[Vanguard]

It is not an ASSUMPTION that the Bible was penned by man but breathed by God.

The men who penned God's word did NOT claim to be anointed and divinely inspired.

So which is it...were the writers inspired by God or not?

2 Timothy 3:16 NASB All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; (courtesy of the Apostle Paul)

Anointed has 2 definitions: to cover in oil, and to be chosen. Jesus chose His disciples.

The subject of this thread is the Tower of Babel, so...

totopic

 

[mondar]

GO A LITTLE DEEPER PLEASE:
The OPs jumped strait to the question of metaphor vs literal. That seems to me to be a presuppositional question. What about talking about the context? Questions have to be asked first..... ***concerning the place of the account of the Tower in Genesis and also..... ***** the place of Genesis in the scripture. *******What theology is coming out of the passage?

DIG A LITTLE DEEPER:
If you take the account as metaphorical, is the whole thing a metaphor, or do you mean merely parts of it are metaphorical. If so, what parts. Also, I would ask what contextual markers give you the idea that the author intended the account to be a fictional metaphorical account? Also, you might want to mention your presuppositional basis for your understanding of the account. If you have a world view that is presuppositionally a materialistic naturalist, you might want to mention that. If so, then you already rule out anything supernatural in the account, not based upon the account itself, but upon your presuppositional basis.

 

[felix]

It is a parable. There are several reasons to believe this. First is the bible is filled with parables. Second is that if it were literal that all people spoke the same language and were the same race just 3,500 to 4,000 years ago. We know that isn't the case do to written history of places like China, and Egypt. Also, archeology. There were people in North America and South America longer ago than that.

The moral of the parable is don't try to become your own God.

According to your logic, how about the birth and resurrection of Jesus is a parable? The moral of the story is not what you said and Bible does not record it that way.

Coming to your archaeological or scientific evidence, please point me just ONE such evidence (not theories) of a language that existed before 3100 BC ?

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Coming to your archaeological or scientific evidence, please point me just ONE such evidence (not theories) of a language that existed before 3100 BC ?

Listen up, everyone! Felix just came up with the realization that we've been missing for all these years! All the archaeologists of the world can stop digging now! Felix wouldn't believe you anyway!

 

[P31Woman]

So which is it...were the writers inspired by God or not?

2 Timothy 3:16 NASB All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; (courtesy of the Apostle Paul)

Anointed has 2 definitions: to cover in oil, and to be chosen. Jesus chose His disciples.

The subject of this thread is the Tower of Babel, so...

totopic

Scripture teaches us it's the WORDS of scripture that are inspired not the individuals.

every "jot and tittle" is inspired by God.

2 Timothy 3:16 a NASB All Scripture is inspired by God

 

[Vanguard]

Coming to your archaeological or scientific evidence, please point me just ONE such evidence (not theories) of a language that existed before 3100 BC ?

Spoken languages have been around longer than 3100 BC. The problem is that they were not recorded because alphabets had yet to be invented. The oldest Sumerian cuneiform dates back to 3500 BC, and the oldest Egyptian proto-hieroglyphics date back to 3300 BC.

 

[felix]

Listen up, everyone! Felix just came up with the realization that we've been missing for all these years! All the archaeologists of the world can stop digging now! Felix wouldn't believe you anyway!

I just asked "ONE" evidence. So, where is it? You have the boldness to criticize me yet have no boldness to show me an evidence for a language?
Let me know what they have dug so far and point me to that evidence.

I said, evidence for just "ONE" language before 3100 BC. Did I made that clear? I don't want anyone to criticize like this without evidence. Neither did I ask anyone to believe me for I am asking for evidence.

Since many seem to believe that languages existed long before, I just need evidence for your blind belief.

 

[felix]

Spoken languages have been around longer than 3100 BC. The problem is that they were not recorded because alphabets had yet to be invented. The oldest Sumerian cuneiform dates back to 3500 BC, and the oldest Egyptian proto-hieroglyphics date back to 3300 BC.

• The date you mentioned 3500 BC (may be referring to Kish tablet) is not any writing, nor it is Sumerian. The oldest known Sumerian tablets date only from 3100 BC.
• The earliest known Egyptian hieroglyphs was also around 3100 BC.
• Proto-Elamite (undeciphered) from around 3100 BC
• The existence of Akkadian language is attested in Sumerian texts by using it's proper names around 2900 BC.

Do you have any scientific explanation of how, all of a sudden different languages started to emerge along with different scripts appearing at the same time?

I do know there was one language in antediluvian era and God confused the languages in tower of Babel.

Without evidence, it is not scientific to even say that languages existed before 3100 BC (+/- 200 yrs).