The Trinity

[netchaplain]

The purpose of New Testament is to identify the Lord Jesus as the Son of God (because that’s His primary administration for salvation). Though the Three are equal in Deity, power and essence, They are in an order of authority (Father, Son, Spirit - Jhn 10:29; 14:28; 1Co 11:3; 15:24); as the One sending has more authority than the One sent (e.g. the Son sent the Spirit from the Father - Jhn 14:16, 26; 15:26; Heb 1:2).

The Son and the Spirit (Act 5:4) both represent God, but esp. the Son, manifesting "the fullness of the Godhead;" and the Father is the Godhead particularly, but all Three “equal” (Phl 2:6) generally (Act 17:29; Rom 1:20; Col 2:9). The "fullness," meaning the Son is the complete manifestation of the Father--or God, in all aspects, except authority; God is also "the Father of all spirits" (Heb 12:9).

Thus it is "Son of God" or "Son of the Father" (2Jo 1:3); Spirit of God or "Spirit of the Father" (Mat 10:20; Jhn 15:26; Rom 8:15). We see “Son of God” and “Spirit of God,” but not the Father of God—because God is the Father. The Lord Jesus is sometimes called God or even the Father (Isa 9:6), but it's in the sense of representing God or the Father, in order to show that the Son conveys all that God determines with His mind concerning the believer. The One sending has more authority than the One sent (e.g. the Son sent the Spirit from the Father - Jhn 14:16, 26; 15:26; Heb 1:2).

This also answers to the beginning of most of Paul's epistles: "Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom 1:7; 1Co 1:3; 2Co 1:3, etc.); the following passages also coincides with this doctrine (Jhn 20:17; Rom 15:6; 1Co 8:6; Eph 4:6).

The point is that the Father wants believers to see the Lord Jesus as the Son more than any other title, because carries the most significant relation to us as the One who only can save and bring us to the Father. Christians will be the greatest entity following the Trinity, because of being the only ones created in God’s image!

I realize this information may seem quite different to most, because I have yet to see any teaching on the Trinity in this way. It's just what I've come to believe during my 43 year walk in Christ. Of course, how one understands and believes the Trinity is not essential doctrine (essential doctrine is that which teaches how to be saved), so don’t think that however you conceive the Trinity can affect your salvation!


God’s blessing to your Families, and God be blessed!​

 

[heartwashed]

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6); the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv)), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33; John 8:24), and the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).

There are not nine members in the Trinity.

Understand Ephesians 4:4-6 and 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 in light of the above information.

Posted in obedience to Titus 2:1.

 

[netchaplain]

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6); the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv)), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33; John 8:24), and the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).

There are not nine members in the Trinity.

Understand Ephesians 4:4-6 and 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 in light of the above information.

Posted in obedience to Titus 2:1.

Thanks for your reply, and God bless!

 

[for_his_glory]

There are not nine members in the Trinity.

Not sure where you see nine members within the OP as he is only speaking about the Father, Son Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit? Could you elaborate a little on your statement?

 

[for_his_glory]

1. God is Spirit, John 4:24, not flesh and blood and in the OT either spoke directly to the prophets or by angels and also various objects like a burning bush or an ass for example. Between the OT and NT God was silent towards Israel as when they returned to Israel from the Babylonian captivity they came back as merchants and not shepherds as they were disobedient to God going after other gods, Book of Malachi.

2. Jesus being the very Spirit of God before the foundation of the world as He and the Father are one was prophesied by the Prophets in the OT and spoken of by John the baptist in the NT as John being the forerunner of Christ calling all to repent. As foretold Christ did come as the word of God made flesh (skin, bone, blood) to be that light that shines in darkness. He came as redeemer Savior through Gods grace as Christ is our faith that all can repent of their sins and have eternal life with the Father to all who will believe in Him as Lord and Savior. John 1:1-4; 1 Peter 1:13-21

3. After the sacrifice of Christ God raised Him from the grave and as He had to ascend back up to heaven the promise was that He would never leave us or forsake us as when He ascended He sent down the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God) to indwell all who will believe in Christ and His finished works on the cross. In the OT Gods Spirit fell on them for a time and purpose under heaven. Now we are indwelled with that power and authority through Gods grace that the Holy Spirit now works in us and through us teaching all things God wants us to learn. All three are Spiritual and Spiritual awakenings in us to know the will of God and walk in His statures. John 16:7-15

Ephesians 4: 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit as all three coequal Gods Spirit.

Jesus being the right arm of God who knew no sin. Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Jesus is the word of God. John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Jesus is word, light and life that is God come in the flesh. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Gods Holy Spirit has come to indwell us and teach us. John 14: 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Just like the word Trinity you are not going to find the exact words "God Holy Spirit" written in scripture, but scripture explains there is only one God, not three, as God exist in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All three are each God, meaning equal in power, nature and attributes and worthy of the same praise. This doesn't mean there are three gods as there is only one true God. It also doesn't mean that these are different forms of God as each is its own person. It's hard to wrap our heads around this as we can not fully understand God.

The Holy Spirit appears in both the OT and NT. In Genesis 1:2 the Spirt of God was hovering over the waters. In Genesis 1:26 Let us make mankind in our image. The word "us" means God, Son Jesus and Holy Spirit (Trinity=3) all being before the creation of the world.

The Holy Spirit has power and emotions and is active among His people. Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit (God Holy Spirit). Nehemiah 9:20 Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, (God Holy Spirit). Now under the dispensation of God's grace we have God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit dwelling in us as we are all one in Him and He in us through that of the Spiritual rebirth from above, John 3:5-7; Acts chapter 2; 1 John 4:12-17.


Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8

Scriptures that reference the Holy Spirit as being God:
Psalms 139:7, 8; John 14:17; 16:13; Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10, 11; Zechariah 4:6; Luke 1:35; Ephesians 4:4-6; Romans 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20

 

[heartwashed]

I would say that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) who descended and took on an added nature of human flesh after having lived one eternal moment,

Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Therefore Jesus and the Father are the same Spirit; as there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); and God is that Spirit (John 4:24); Jesus being God; and there being one God (James 2:19).

The distinction between the Father and the Son being that the Father is a Spirit inhabiting eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh while the Son is that same Spirit come in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

Also, the same Spirit was released into eternity to exist side-by-side with the Father when Jesus died on the Cross (Luke 23:46); being given the title of "Holy Ghost" and being distinct from the Father in that He has lived a human life and therefore understands humanity in an experiential manner.

Because the Father didn't VACATE ETERNITY when He descended into time to take on an added human nature.

That would be impossible; because by nature, if a Person inhabits eternity, they exist in eternity for ever; even from everlasting to everlasting (see Psalms 90:2).

The Holy Ghost, being released to the Father; and being the same Spirit as the Father (Ephesians 4:4), ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) as being in effect the Spirit of Jesus Christ, and therefore being Jesus Christ;

While the Person of the Son is perpetually come in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7) and is now therefore a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of God.

As such, being finite in His humanity, He does not fill all things except in the Person of the Holy Ghost as well as in His pre-incarnate form.

 

[for_his_glory]

I would say that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) who descended and took on an added nature of human flesh after having lived one eternal moment,

Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Therefore Jesus and the Father are the same Spirit; as there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); and God is that Spirit (John 4:24); Jesus being God; and there being one God (James 2:19).

The distinction between the Father and the Son being that the Father is a Spirit inhabiting eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh while the Son is that same Spirit come in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

Also, the same Spirit was released into eternity to exist side-by-side with the Father when Jesus died on the Cross (Luke 23:46); being given the title of "Holy Ghost" and being distinct from the Father in that He has lived a human life and therefore understands humanity in an experiential manner.

Because the Father didn't VACATE ETERNITY when He descended into time to take on an added human nature.

That would be impossible; because by nature, if a Person inhabits eternity, they exist in eternity for ever; even from everlasting to everlasting (see Psalms 90:2).

The Holy Ghost, being released to the Father; and being the same Spirit as the Father (Ephesians 4:4), ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) as being in effect the Spirit of Jesus Christ, and therefore being Jesus Christ;

While the Person of the Son is perpetually come in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7) and is now therefore a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of God.

As such, being finite in His humanity, He does not fill all things except in the Person of the Holy Ghost as well as in His pre-incarnate form.

Father, Son, Holy Spirit being all God's Spirit manifested in different ways, but yet of God's purpose for the salvation of humankind. The Trinity IMO is the hardest thing to understand as we can only know in part.

 

[heartwashed]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit being all God's Spirit manifested in different ways, but yet of God's purpose for the salvation of humankind. The Trinity IMO is the hardest thing to understand as we can only know in part.

I think that I do have a pretty good grasp of an understanding of the Trinity,

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

I think that I understand the basics of it in full and not in part.

 

[Free]

I think that I do have a pretty good grasp of an understanding of the Trinity,
…
I think that I understand the basics of it in full and not in part.

Except that the doctrine of the Trinity is quite different than what you have stated. Basically stated, it is that within the one being that is God, there exists three coeternal, coequal persons.

That is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have each always existed as fully and truly God, yet, the Father isn’t the Son, and neither are the Holy Spirit. All of the same essence but distinct one from the other.

 

[heartwashed]

Except that the doctrine of the Trinity is quite different than what you have stated. Basically stated, it is that within the one being that is God, there exists three coeternal, coequal persons.

That is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have each always existed as fully and truly God, yet, the Father isn’t the Son, and neither are the Holy Spirit. All of the same essence but distinct one from the other.

Yes, of one essence / Spirit; and distinct from one another.

Not separate.

There are those who hide behind the label of Trinitarian who are in all reality Tritheists.

And the Father isn't the Son but the Son is the same Spirit as the Father. The Father isn't come in the flesh except in the Person of the Son (see Isaiah 9:6, taking it at face value).

 

[heartwashed]

I can see that the devil is going to try and fight me on this.

He is going to try and say that my teaching is unorthodox and then try and have me banned and my posts deleted.

But I would say to him (and to anyone who might unwittingly be serving him in this regard), if you have a problem with my explanation and description of the Trinity, give chapter and verse that refutes my understanding.

Let us discuss these things rationally rather than decrying each other as heretics.

 

[Free]

Yes, of one essence / Spirit; and distinct from one another.

Not separate.

There are those who hide behind the label of Trinitarian who are in all reality Tritheists.

And the Father isn't the Son but the Son is the same Spirit as the Father. The Father isn't come in the flesh except in the Person of the Son (see Isaiah 9:6, taking it at face value).

I wouldn’t say that “same essence” is the same as “same Spirit.” That seems to confuse the Holy Spirit with some other “Spirit.”

Also, you had said: “I would say that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) who descended and took on an added nature of human flesh after having lived one eternal moment,”

Firstly, John 4:24 says that “God is spirit,” not that “the Father is a Spirit.” Secondly, it was the Son that descended and took on human flesh (Phil 2:5-8), not the Father. Thirdly, what do you mean by “after having lived one eternal moment”?

 

[heartwashed]

I wouldn’t say that “same essence” is the same as “same Spirit.” That seems to confuse the Holy Spirit with some other “Spirit.”

Also, you had said: “I would say that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) who descended and took on an added nature of human flesh after having lived one eternal moment,”

Firstly, John 4:24 says that “God is spirit,” not that “the Father is a Spirit.” Secondly, it was the Son that descended and took on human flesh (Phil 2:5-8), not the Father. Thirdly, what do you mean by “after having lived one eternal moment”?

So, do you believe that it was a 2nd God who descended and took on human flesh, or 1/3 of God?

If it was neither, then it was God (the Father, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, James 3:9 (kjv)).

Even as we find written in 1 Timothy 3:16 (kjv)...

1Ti 3:16, And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 4:24 does in fact say that God is a Spirit. If you look back at verse 23, I believe that you will see that Jesus, in referring to God, is referring to the Father. God, in verse 24, also refers to the Son and the Holy Ghost as being a Spirit. But it certainly does not exclude the Father as being a Spirit, who is God.

Since there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4), I would say that the Father and the Son (and the Holy Ghost) are the same Spirit.

And in my scenario that I have set forth, how is the Holy Ghost some other Spirit? He is the same Spirit as the Father and the Son. For there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) that is God (John 4:24); and the Holy Ghost is also God.

You are going to have to figure out what I mean by "one eternal moment". I can't think of any other way to say what I am saying there.

 

[heartwashed]

Secondly, it was the Son that descended and took on human flesh (Phil 2:5-8), not the Father.

I would say to this that the passage that you have referenced does not refer to the Son alone. It is referring to Jesus Christ.

According to Matthew 28:19, the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost have a singular name.

You can determine what that name is by comparing scripture with scripture (1 Corinthians 2:13).

Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38.

 

[heartwashed]

Basically stated, it is that within the one being that is God, there exists three coeternal, coequal persons.

Is each of these Persons 1/3 of God as you are stating it?

I believe that in sound doctrine, as the Trinity is stated, each of the co-eternal, co-equal Persons is fully God.

I am speaking of a Godhead that is indivisible.

 

[heartwashed]

Not sure where you see nine members within the OP as he is only speaking about the Father, Son Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit? Could you elaborate a little on your statement?

Not in the OP; but one could mistake post #2 to be speaking of nine members in the Trinity; when the gist of post #2 is to teach us that God is one (James 2:19).

 

[heartwashed]

Consider Colossians 2:8-9 (kjv)...

Col 2:8, Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9, For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The Godhead being the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, this is saying that all three dwell in the Person of Jesus Christ bodily in all of "their" fulness.

Therefore, there is a sense in which Jesus is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

It should be clear that I am preaching that there is one God (James 2:19).

But you might misunderstand what I am saying to you if the Holy Ghost doesn't illuminate it to you. Be sure not to discount everything that I have said so far.

 

[heartwashed]

Please understand that I am not denying that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are distinct from one another.

The Son released the Holy Ghost from His body at the juncture of Luke 23:46; which indicates a very clear distinction;

While I will also say that the Father (John 14:7-11) and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 1:20, Luke 1:35) dwelt in Jesus Christ for all of His natural born life. And that the Son is God in His own right; even apart from being indwelt by the Spirit of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not in the OP; but one could mistake post #2 to be speaking of nine members in the Trinity; when the gist of post #2 is to teach us that God is one (James 2:19).

All you speak of in your post #2 is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Not sure how anyone could get nine out of what you said as you made it very clear there are only three as being the very Spirit of God as that is what the Trinity is.

 

[for_his_glory]

I can see that the devil is going to try and fight me on this.

He is going to try and say that my teaching is unorthodox and then try and have me banned and my posts deleted.

But I would say to him (and to anyone who might unwittingly be serving him in this regard), if you have a problem with my explanation and description of the Trinity, give chapter and verse that refutes my understanding.

Let us discuss these things rationally rather than decrying each other as heretics.

Please do not go on the defensive as no one is attacking you, but discussing with you as in how each of us understand the Trinity. I believe we are all discussing this topic rationally and you have done nothing to be banned. Like I told you, not everyone is going to agree with each other, but that does not make one right and the other wrong, but to discuss how we differ with another.