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The true Israel

I don't want you showing me anything :shame

So the "man" Lucifer is eternal. That presents a problem in your thinking huh

The Lords.
Lucifer hasnt been cast out yet.
Babylon hasnt been destroyed yet.Read the bookk of revelation for goodness sake.
Lucifer is the beast.King of Babylon.If you think you might know what city is Babylon then there you will find Lucifer,


Mat 8;11-12
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


I dont see how you get anything eternal out of this.
The subjects who are in the kingdom of heaven above shall be cast out into outer darkness.
You just cant understand who they are or where they are being cast out of.
 
the world beheld as in i beheld satan falling out of the sky is in past tense in all bible versions.

Alot of things in the bible that are future events are wrintten in past tence.

He was wounded for our transgressions was wrintten a very long time before he was wounded for our transgressions.
 
The Lords.
Lucifer hasnt been cast out yet.
Babylon hasnt been destroyed yet.Read the bookk of revelation for goodness sake.
Lucifer is the beast.King of Babylon.If you think you might know what city is Babylon then there you will find Lucifer,

have you ever actually been to the babylon of antiquity?

i know some that have and its quite destroyed. babylon is a worldwide system that isnt in place.

if isreal was to be wiped off the earth i dont see that the ecomonies would be hit as hard as the bible says.

we dont get oil from isreal but from the opec nations(and iraq is the highest on that list for our suppliers).
 
Alot of things in the bible that are future events are wrintten in past tence.

He was wounded for our transgressions was wrintten a very long time before he was wounded for our transgressions.

thanks you just confirmed my point satan was on the earth and in charge of it till the cross!

read the nt its plainly says that.

that satan was defeated at the cross and also that war in heaven refers to that in the past.

satan roamed the earth otherwise how could he tempt eve?
 
In the original latin the word lucifer was not meant as a proper name - but rather the litteral translation of light bearer - and it harkens back to a canaanite story of Venus 'the morning star' - so in the literal context of the verse - its not refering specificly to lucifer, but alluding to the story of Venus trying to build its throne above that of his father - the dawn - and then being cast down by the brightness of the sun - day in and day out. maybe that context may help.

Jesus called himself the bright and morning star in the scriptures.
Lucifer king of Babylon(Jerusalem)immitates Christ.
Its like the name of this thread.
According to scripture Jesus is the true Israel.
But there is another who claims he is Israel(the Israeli goverment) who just so heppens to rule Jerusalem(sprituals called Babylon).

Catch my drift?
There are just so many so called christians in the world who support the beast ,it isnt funny.
Out of ignorance they support the nation state of Israel.
 
The Lords.
Lucifer hasnt been cast out yet.
Babylon hasnt been destroyed yet.Read the bookk of revelation for goodness sake.
Lucifer is the beast.King of Babylon.If you think you might know what city is Babylon then there you will find Lucifer,


Mat 8;11-12
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


I dont see how you get anything eternal out of this.
The subjects who are in the kingdom of heaven above shall be cast out into outer darkness.
You just cant understand who they are or where they are being cast out of.

Is the spirit of the antichrist not also lucifer and satan?

So the human man the king of babylon in isaiah was cast out of heaven and fell to earth?
 
have you ever actually been to the babylon of antiquity?

i know some that have and its quite destroyed. babylon is a worldwide system that isnt in place.

if isreal was to be wiped off the earth i dont see that the ecomonies would be hit as hard as the bible says.

we dont get oil from isreal but from the opec nations(and iraq is the highest on that list for our suppliers).

Mat 8;11-12
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Tell those antichrist friends of yours that they better repent and believe the gospel or get cast out of the kingdom of heaven.
 
Jesus called himself the bright and morning star in the scriptures.
Lucifer king of Babylon(Jerusalem)immitates Christ.
Its like the name of this thread.
According to scripture Jesus is the true Israel.
But there is another who claims he is Israel(the Israeli goverment) who just so heppens to rule Jerusalem(sprituals called Babylon).

Catch my drift?
There are just so many so called christians in the world who support the beast ,it isnt funny.
Out of ignorance they support the nation state of Israel.

no ma is correct. lucifer in latin means light bearer

and also if its lucifer like you say then oops its a bad translation of a lot of bibles.as many version use that name and if that is to then is isiah 14 mentioning the lord as being fallen?
 
Mat 8;11-12
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Tell those antichrist friends of yours that they better repent and believe the gospel or get cast out of the kingdom of heaven.

mathew 5:5 the meek shall inherent the earth.

and lo i behold new jerusalem descending from heaven to the new earth.

hmm yup sounds like we are living on this earth when its all said and done.
 
Jesus called himself the bright and morning star in the scriptures.
Lucifer king of Babylon(Jerusalem)immitates Christ.
Its like the name of this thread.
According to scripture Jesus is the true Israel.
But there is another who claims he is Israel(the Israeli goverment) who just so heppens to rule Jerusalem(sprituals called Babylon).

Catch my drift?
There are just so many so called christians in the world who support the beast ,it isnt funny.
Out of ignorance they support the nation state of Israel.

i wonder why??? does it have anything to do with the Temple of the Lord :chin

Ashua, very clearly showed that Jesus cannot be a territorial land. You completely ignored him

You're also forgetting the fact that Babylon is symbolic of the world, the kingdom of satan
 
In the original latin the word lucifer was not meant as a proper name - but rather the litteral translation of light bearer - and it harkens back to a canaanite story of Venus 'the morning star' - so in the literal context of the verse - its not refering specificly to lucifer, but alluding to the story of Venus trying to build its throne above that of his father - the dawn - and then being cast down by the brightness of the sun - day in and day out. maybe that context may help.

That isn't Scriptural. It's not alluding to the story of Venus. It's explaining the fall of Satan. The God of the Bible does not turn to pagan legends.


Isaiah 14


1For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
22For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
23I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
25That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
26This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
27For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
28In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.
29Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
30And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.
31Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times. 32What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.
 
Well - if it is expalining the fall of satan - then its srange because it uses the same words and same exact story of the fall of venus - venus, also known as the "morning star" AKA "Morning light" AKA "Light bearer" AKA "Son of Dawn" by the canaanites - in their version Venus, the son of the god of Dawn tried to make his throne above the clouds and usurp the power of the dawn - thus every morning, venus is the brightest star in the sky and last star to be seen before the sun overtakes it. The jews never believed in the fallen angel story - that story came later, ironicly, around the same time as the apochraphyl book of Enoch was said to have been written, which was also which was about around 100BC - and also Ironicly describes one of the archangels named Sataniel who tryed to "make his throne higher than the clouds", and thus was cast down with his minions to earth - now this is an Apochraphyl book, so its not scriptural.

My attempt at shedding some light on the subjecxt was not to say you or shiloh was wrong, just trying to put into context that your speaking about Lucifer in the proper noun form, and the original hebrew is speaking in a broader form, comparing the king of babylon to the story of venus falling.

You're imput is appreciated but it is not Scriptural. Yes, in fact Lucifer is simply latin for "light bearer."

Jesus is the Morning Star:

Rev 22:16 (NIV) "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Isaiah is speaking about the antichrist. It's a play on words.

That does not mean that the Lord YWHW turned to a pagan legend to speak to His people. He does not yoke Himself to pagans.

2 Corinthians 2:16
What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?

Scripture confirms that the Lord is in fact speaking about Satan, the fallen angel who was cast out of heaven when he tried to usurp the Lord's throne.

Luke 10:18
He [Jesus] replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Ezekiel 28

11 The word of the LORD came to me: 12 “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.[b]
Your settings and mountings[c] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’”
 
I did not say the Lord YHWH would adopt a pagan story

But - the two stories are almost word for word the same - must be a coincidence

Nowhere in the Bible is satan called lucifer. Hes called "Satan" (Matt. 4:10; Mark 1:13, 4:15; Luke 10:18), "devil" (Matt. 4:1), "adversary" (1. Peter 5:8) "enemy" (Matt. 13:39), "accuser" (Rev. 12:10), "old serpent" (Rev. 20:2), "great dragon" (Rev. 12:9), "beelzubob" (Matt. 10:25, 12:24), and belial (comp. Samael). In Luke 10:18, John 12:31, 2. Cor. 6:16, and Rev. 12:9 the fall of Satan is mentioned. The devil is regarded as the author of all evil (Luke 10:19; Acts 5:3; 2. Cor. 11:3; Ephes. 2:2), who beguiled Eve(AS) (2. Cor. 11:3; Rev. 12:9). Because of Satan, death came into this world, being ever the tempter (1. Cor. 7:5; 1. Thess. 3:5; 1. Peter 5:8) The Christian demonology and belief in the devil dominated subsequent periods. However, though the New Testament includes the conception that Satan fell from heaven "as lightning" it nowhere applies the name Lucifer to him.

However the word Hilal Ben Shashar is used other parts of the OT when not speaking about Satan like Job 38:32, and is refering to "Morning star, Son of dawn"

Why is both satan and jesus(AS) given the name Morning star? The Morning star story and the satan falling from heaven story are exactly the same, is Jesus(AS) being compared to teh morning star stroy?

Again, your imput is is not Scriptual. Lucifer is a modern name for Satan. Many newer Bible translations don't even use the word Lucifer in Isaiah anymore.

We're discussing the Scriptures from a Christian perspective and you are viewing the Scriptures from a nonChristian perspective. The Caaninite Venus story does not change or shed any new light onto the Scripture in Isaiah.
 
The True Israel is Jesus Christ and all those given to Him by God..
 
That isn't Scriptural. It's not alluding to the story of Venus. It's explaining the fall of Satan. The God of the Bible does not turn to pagan legends.


Isaiah 14


1For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
22For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
23I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
25That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
26This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
27For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
28In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.
29Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
30And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.
31Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times. 32What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.

Isaiah 14 is a long ago fulfilled prophesy of the judgment and destruction of the Neo-Assyrian Empire for their rebellious pride against God. In this way the empire is personified and compared to Satan. The chapter is not actually about Satan, even though one can learn about Satan from how his characteristics are expressed through Assyria.

Isaiah 14 goes on to warn against rejoicing at God's judgment of Assyria. Soon after Assyria's destruction the Neo-Babylonian Empire would overrun the world, yet God would eventually bring His remnant through the calamity and reestablish them.

Prophetic History is the believer's friend.:yes
 
Isaiah 14 is a long ago fulfilled prophesy of the judgment and destruction of the Neo-Assyrian Empire for their rebellious pride against God. In this way the empire is personified and compared to Satan. The chapter is not actually about Satan, even though one can learn about Satan from how his characteristics are expressed through Assyria.

Isaiah 14 goes on to warn against rejoicing at God's judgment of Assyria. Soon after Assyria's destruction the Neo-Babylonian Empire would overrun the world, yet God would eventually bring His remnant through the calamity and reestablish them.

Prophetic History is the believer's friend.:yes

Yes, I agree! I didn't mean to convery that it was solely about Satan. This passage is so beautiful and seems to be speaking in a timeless manner. {1) the past King of Assyria (2) the fall of Satan and (3) End Times eschatology. And each one entertwines with the other! Our Lord is quite impressive indeed!
 
i wonder why??? does it have anything to do with the Temple of the Lord :chin

Ashua, very clearly showed that Jesus cannot be a territorial land. You completely ignored him

You're also forgetting the fact that Babylon is symbolic of the world, the kingdom of satan

Thats funny .Because I never claimed Jesus was a territorial land.
And Babylon is not symbolic of the world.
It is a city just as the scripture says.

Rev 17;18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Babylon is a city.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The True Israel is Jesus Christ and all those given to Him by God..

I dont think many people in this thread undertand that.
They cant seem to grasp there is a deciever in Jerusalem claiming to be something its not.
Its national symbol is what it calls the star of David.
rev 22;16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star

Theres just so many people on this board who want to support that deciever who immitates Christ.
 
I dont think many people in this thread undertand that.
They cant seem to grasp there is a deciever in Jerusalem claiming to be something its not.
Its national symbol is what it calls the star of David.
rev 22;16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star

Theres just so many people on this board who want to support that deciever who immitates Christ.

Gods elect will not totally and finally deceived..Matt 24:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
 
Simply, the true Israel is:

From the treasury of David commentary

Psa 24:3-6
3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his holy place?
4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
6 This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.
Here we have the true Israel described. The men who shall stand as courtiers in the palace of the living God are not distinguished by race, but by character; they are not Jews only, nor Gentiles only, nor any one branch of mankind peculiarly, but a people purified and made meet to dwell in the holy hill of the Lord.

Psa 73:1
1 Truly God is good to Israel, even to such as are of a clean heart.
“Truly,†or, more correctly, only, “God is good to Israel.†He is only good, nothing else but good to his own covenanted ones. He cannot act unjustly or unkindly to them; his goodness to them is beyond dispute, and without mixture. “Even to such as are of a clean heart.†These are the true Israel, not the ceremonially clean but the really so; those who are clean in the inward parts, pure in the vital mainspring of action. To such he is, and must be, goodness itself.

Psa_98:3
“He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel.â€
To them Jesus came in the flesh, and to them was the gospel first preached; and though they counted themselves unworthy of eternal life, yet the covenant was not broken, for the true Israel were called into fellowship and still remain so. The mercy which endureth for ever, and the fidelity which cannot forget a promise, secure to the chosen seed the salvation long ago guaranteed by the covenant of grace.

Faithfulness

Stay Blessed
 
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