The Two Gospels

[Bick]

To me, the greatest gospel (good news) is that Christ died for out sins, was buried, roused from the dead and sits at the right hand of God the Father.

I know of no scriptures that say that Christ died to save humans from "hell".

There are a number of "good news" messages in the Bible. More than two.

 

[RichardBurger]

For those that believe there has never been but one gospel I offer the following proof that one existed and has now been replaced by the new (grace).

Galatians 3:22-25
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
NKJV

So then when did faith come? Was it before Christ’s work on the cross and has it always existed? Looks to me like it was after Christ.

Romans 11:19-20
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
NKJV

Faith was not in effect as long as there was a chance that the Apostles could persuade The Jews to accept Jesus as their Messiah.

Luke 13:6-9 (The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree)
6 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?'
8 But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it.
9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.'"
NKJV

The fig tree represents the nation of Israel. The three years are the years Jesus preached the “Kingdom at Hand†gospel. The keeper of the vineyard are the Apostles. The Apostles had about 40 years to convince the Jews that Jesus was their Messiah. We know that they couldn’t do it so God destroyed the Temple and turned away from the Jews and YES the gospel changed. The old passed away and was replaced by the gospel of Grace.

All that was written "to the Jews" in the O.T. and the N.T. was written "to the Jews," not to the Gentiles. Is it necessary for us to understand them? YES. If we don't then we are missing the foundation for understanding who Jesus is and the shift to the gospel of God's grace. The message of salvation by God's grace, "alone," given to Paul, was without precedence. It was not in the Jewish relationship with God. The Jewish relationship was a religious one of "faith + works to show that faith" (James 2:24). However, the gospel of God's grace requires no works whatsoever. God has done all the works that are necessary on the cross. As Paul said;

Rom 4:5-6 (NKJ)
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Only Paul penned the words "in Christ" for he understood that God places those that believe in Him "in Christ" by the operation of the Holy Spirit (new birth). Man cannot accomplish this new birth. This idea of being "in Christ" was totally new. Up to this time it was all in a religious relationship of works, rituals and ceremonies.

 

[DarcyLu]

Kind of strange this morning, I kept being directed to how Jesus has taken the curse away and have always wondered why I read something different than what famous, well educated preachers preach and then the Lord directed me to this thread. There really are 2 gospels - LOL - one the Lord keeps showing me and then the one from "man's wisdom". I'll take the #2 option.

1 Cor 2:5 "so your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power"

Amazing what happens when you ask God to show you His truth.

 

[veteran]

There has only ever been one Gospel of Jesus Christ. Those not familar with it within the Old Testament Books simply haven't studied their Bible enough, for the Old Covenant by the law was not The Gospel but only a pointer to the one Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Gospel means 'good news'. And the good news in New Testament times was the fulfilling of God's Promise of bringing Israel The Saviour Jesus Christ. But the good news (Gospel) was first written of and preached within the Old Testament Books. That's how those who lived to see The Gospel fulfilled with Christ coming to die on the cross knew when the time of fulfillment came. The reason why Apostle Paul linked The Gospel with Abraham's Faith in Romans and Galatians is because The Gospel of Jesus Christ The Saviour is what Abraham was shown, even around 400 years PRIOR to the law given through Moses. At the end of John 8 our Lord Jesus even declared that Abraham saw His day and was glad.

 

[glorydaz]

There has only ever been one Gospel of Jesus Christ. Those not familar with it within the Old Testament Books simply haven't studied their Bible enough, for the Old Covenant by the law was not The Gospel but only a pointer to the one Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Gospel means 'good news'. And the good news in New Testament times was the fulfilling of God's Promise of bringing Israel The Saviour Jesus Christ. But the good news (Gospel) was first written of and preached within the Old Testament Books. That's how those who lived to see The Gospel fulfilled with Christ coming to die on the cross knew when the time of fulfillment came. The reason why Apostle Paul linked The Gospel with Abraham's Faith in Romans and Galatians is because The Gospel of Jesus Christ The Saviour is what Abraham was shown, even around 400 years PRIOR to the law given through Moses. At the end of John 8 our Lord Jesus even declared that Abraham saw His day and was glad.

:amen

 

[Son of Israel]

Why should any believer answer a loaded question like that? I already gave a rebuttal to that anyway in the original thread it was posted.

When you can properly define what all is included in The Gospel of Jesus Christ per God's Word, then you might can ask that kind of question. But at present, based on your question, it shows that's not the case.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ also includes the end of this present world age with all knees bowing to Christ as LORD. That's about God's consuming fire coming upon this earth to end this present world, and is hard-linked with Christ's bodily return to this earth. I don't see any of that in 'your' idea of The Gospel.

Nice post Cornelius. I opt for Gospel number 2!

Veteran, just because Cornelius didn't "define" everything that you might have doesn't mean a thing. This is his thread to start, not yours. Just because he doesn't subscribe to your religion of "futurism" and some strange "bodily return of Christ" doctrine along with your hell fire scenario doesn't mean that what he posted isn't entirely and completely true. One could add to it, but you sure can't take anything away from his true brief of Gospel #2.

 

[Son of Israel]

I still don't see any witness at all to the still coming glory of Christ's future bodily return, and the setting up of His de facto Kingdom on this earth, over ALL nations, with ALL bowing the knee to Him as LORD. You know, all this is past... the still coming consuming fire destruction of this earth age.

quote]

that is a silly gospel. Christ is come, His Kingdom is in us, we are His Body, He is King over ALL nations, all who are in Christ bow the knee to Him and those who don't die. We are purified in the fire of Christ's Holy Spirit in us... etc etc etc it is ALL fulfilled in US NOW.
You appear to not understand the meaning of these things if you are still looking for some "future physical" dispensational christian zionist silliness.
Veteran, you really need to pay attention to these truths and pray about them so that you aren't left out of the Blessings in Christ now because you are standing and staring up into the sky for some fictional "bodily return".
Pray about it!

 

[Son of Israel]

Why have some brethren put so much trust in this life of flesh today, when Paul showed there our spirit is in a war with our flesh (like in the previous Romans 7 chapter especially)? To be confused about that is to not understand what our future hope in Christ is about, i.e., how His Salvation will actually manifest, and what it'll be like.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

If Christ's Salvation is about this flesh we're in today, then why must there come a change in the future to end this world? Why can't Christ make this flesh life today perfect now? He has already shown in His Word that He will create the new heavens and a new earth where the former things will be forgotten. Paul covers some of that here in Romans 8, because one of his main messages in this area of Romans is about the differences between this world now, and the world to come, the flesh vs. Spirit.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Exaclty what "body" is Paul talking about there? It's our flesh body, for those in Christ Jesus it is dead, symbolically. And at flesh death, what happens? Will we have a new flesh body? No, for that would be the theory of reincarnation.

11 But if the Spirit of Him That raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He That raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit That dwelleth in you.

Now what's Paul talking about with the idea of bodies? What mortal body is that which is quickened, which is associated with Christ's Resurrection from the dead? And when will that happen? I'll give you a hint, it's not our flesh body.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Again, Apostle Paul is very careful, for he did not say it's our flesh body that will continue to live, but we that shall live. And which part of us lives via the resurrection after flesh death?

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together.

Paul dropped another hint, when he speaks of the time when God's children will be 'glorified' with Christ. Has that time come today? No, not yet, for it's about the resurrection of the dead timing, which is still future. It's when Christ will appear as He is, and we will appear with a glorified body like His, according to what Apostle John said.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Paul is talking about the creation with that word for "creature". It's rendered as "creation" in a later verse here. God's creation today still awaits for the manifestation of the sons of God. That's about the future glorified body state, with Christ. Has that come yet today? Nope, otherwise the creation would be different also, like Paul is going to reveal...

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Again, read creation here for that word "creature". Who has realized that God had put today's creation in a state of bondage of corruption? Not only that, but God's creation is also in the same hope of that future time of the manifesting of the sons of God, but why? Because even the creation is going to be delivered from its bondage to corruption.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

If the way God's creation is today is pefect, and the way God had intended it to remain, then why does Paul say it groaneth and travaileth in pain for a release from bondage of corruption? How is God's creation today in corruption? Have you noticed how everything eventually dies? Can you believe there will be a time on earth without the violent weather patterns and storms we experience today?

What Paul is pointing to is a change God made upon His creation, for this world earth age ("the heavens and the earth, which are now" - 2 Peter 3). Not only our spirit inside us groans for a release from this bondage state of sin we've had to deal with, but the whole creation seeks for a release from a similar bondage that God put it in long ago. Can anyone imagine what event might have happened on this earth before which caused God to put the creation into bondage?

And specifically, what kind of body is Paul talking about with "the redemption of our body"? Now these he spoke that to were already believers on Christ. So that can't be about a spiritual redemption only like the "new creature" idea, a state a believer can be in while still in the flesh here on earth. Paul is talking about the resurrection body, the "spiritual body" he taught about in 1 Corinthians 15, a body of incorruption, the "image of the heavenly" that we all will put on when Christ returns on the "last trump" (7th). That is the future glory and redemption Paul is declaring there. It is NOT about any imagined redemption some think is already come today in their flesh bodies.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
(KJV)

And just to seal the idea, Paul says "hope that is seen is not hope"? Why's that? Because if you can see it already manifested, then the time of hope and waiting for it is over. Instead our hope is for a future state of glory that is yet to be revealed. Moreover, the whole creation awaits that future change also, and that's an important point. Because it means there will be changes with God's creation at the same time. What are some of those changes this earth is to go through that manifest with the sons of God at Christ's return?

The River of the waters of life issuing out from the Milennium sanctuary is one such change on earth to come, along with the manifesting of the many trees on either side of that River (Ezek.47; Rev.22). That River is to even flow out to the desert, and the desert will blossom, and all waters it contacts will be healed (man's pollution of the waters gone). Even the dimensions of the Holy City given in Ezekiel with It sited where earthly Jerusalem is today, will stretch out far westward where the Mediterranean sea is now. The forming of the great valley east and west in Zechariah 14 at Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives will be part of that change on earth.

Thus Christ's Salvation is not just about a feel good Faith emotion inside us today while in this flesh, but a Salvation of reality, with real substance, and changes on this earth to go with it, with real peace and righteousness manifested on the earth, with the wicked gone.
.

You are really confused veteran. No one here is saying anything about our "flesh" as you respond to warrant any such argument as you are putting forth above. We all know and understand those scriputures. They aren't in discord in any way of anything being said by Cornelius or others here.

But we can certainly say that Christ is come in our flesh and it is IN OUR FLESH WHERE JESUS HAS COME AND IT IS IN OUR FLESH WHERE THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS...

(Eph 5:30) For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Vereran, is your body of His flesh and bones?

(Act 2:17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Veteran, is His Spirit poured out on your FLESH?

(Luk 17:20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

(Luk 17:21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Veteran! Is the Kingdom of God within YOU?

(1Jn 4:2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

So veteran, is Jeus Christ "COME IN YOUR FLESH" OR NOT??

(1Co 3:16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Veteran! Does God dwell in you?!

(Gal 2:20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Veteran! Is Christ in you?

(Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Veteran! Are you sealed with His Holy Spirit of Promise??

You really need to think about these things sir

Son of Israel

 

[veteran]

Veteran, just because Cornelius didn't "define" everything that you might have doesn't mean a thing. This is his thread to start, not yours. Just because he doesn't subscribe to your religion of "futurism" and some strange "bodily return of Christ" doctrine along with your hell fire scenario doesn't mean that what he posted isn't entirely and completely true. One could add to it, but you sure can't take anything away from his true brief of Gospel #2.

I see nothing but Biblical illiteracy in your statements. If you had actually studied all The Bible you would understand how Christ's return is to be a bodily in Person return, in the same Resurrection Body He appeared to His disciples with after The Father had raised Him from the dead. If you understood that per God's Word, then you would know better than even using terms like Futurist.

And I don't have a personal hell-fire scenario, but God does in His Word. Which one would you like to hear about, the casting into hell that Christ warned His servants about in Matt.10:28, or the Revelation 20:14 example of the abode of hell, death, Satan, and the wicked all being cast into the "lake of fire" after Christ's future "thousand years" reign on earth? There's also some OT references about that future event; I'm familar with those too. What about you?

 

[veteran]

I still don't see any witness at all to the still coming glory of Christ's future bodily return, and the setting up of His de facto Kingdom on this earth, over ALL nations, with ALL bowing the knee to Him as LORD. You know, all this is past... the still coming consuming fire destruction of this earth age.

quote]

that is a silly gospel. Christ is come, His Kingdom is in us, we are His Body, He is King over ALL nations, all who are in Christ bow the knee to Him and those who don't die. We are purified in the fire of Christ's Holy Spirit in us... etc etc etc it is ALL fulfilled in US NOW.
You appear to not understand the meaning of these things if you are still looking for some "future physical" dispensational christian zionist silliness.
Veteran, you really need to pay attention to these truths and pray about them so that you aren't left out of the Blessings in Christ now because you are standing and staring up into the sky for some fictional "bodily return".
Pray about it!

What about these, when did they bow the knee to Christ Jesus?

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
(KJV)

All knees in the world today have NOT already bowed the knee to Christ Jesus as KING. But of course, I can grasp why those who refuse Scripture about Christ's future bodily return in Person to judge this earth would Try to say all knees have already bowed to Him. Those who think that WANT THIS WORLD as it is today to continue like it is forever!

God is going to send a 'king' in the times near to come. But that first king that's to appear in the end of days won't be Christ Jesus, but an imposter. For those believe there's no need for a future bodily coming of Christ in Person back to this earth, it's the false king that's coming first they will accept. And they deserve that blindness for not having stayed in God's Word of Truth, but rather default to the traditions of men.

 

[veteran]

You are really confused veteran. No one here is saying anything about our "flesh" as you respond to warrant any such argument as you are putting forth above. We all know and understand those scriputures. They aren't in discord in any way of anything being said by Cornelius or others here.

Oh, I'm not the one who is confused here. Very few here understand those Rom.8 Scriptures, because what are some here trying to preach concerning Christ's Kingdom and His return? Some here are busy, like yourself, denying the bodily return of our Lord Jesus Christ to this earth. The Romans 8 example is actually showing changes that are to take place on this earth, and changes with our flesh bodies when Christ's return does happen. It's apparent you don't understand that point either.

But we can certainly say that Christ is come in our flesh and it is IN OUR FLESH WHERE JESUS HAS COME AND IT IS IN OUR FLESH WHERE THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS...

Don't you realize how that idea conflicts with what Paul said in 1 Cor.15 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption? What you say even conflicts with what our Lord Jesus taught about the difference between Spirit and flesh in John 3.

I well understand how The Holy Spirit was sent to those who believe on Christ Jesus. The deeper understanding I declare on many Bible topics is not possible without The Holy Spirit. It is NOT our flesh that receives The Holy Spirit, but our spirit inside our flesh.

One of the earliest teachings God gave us of how He created us was given in Eccl.12. Evidently some need a reminder of that...

Eccl 12:5-7
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it.
(KJV)

When our flesh body dies, IT goes back to the dust of the earth where it came from. But our 'spirit' which comes from God, goes back to Him. So what part is the actuall 'person' part of us? It is NOT our flesh part, because our flesh breaks down immediately after flesh death and goes back to the elements of earthly matter where it originated. Our soul is not mentioned in that example, but it is with the "spirit" part.

Apostle Paul showed this in 1 Corinthians 15, in more detail. He said to have eternal Life through Christ, this corruptible (flesh body) must put on incorruption ("spiritual body"), AND... this mortal (soul) must put on immortality. That's 2 changes we must go through. Our flesh earthly image must be changed to the "image of the heavenly" Paul mentioned there, BUT ALSO something we have that is 'mortal' must also put on immortality through Christ. That "mortal" part is about our soul that is attached to our spirit inside our flesh bodies. It's our soul that is our 'person', our 'intellect'; and it can be in either one of two conditions, either liable to perish, or into immortality of eternal life through Christ Jesus.

But what you apparently are thinking, is the idea that your flesh body is the 'person' or intellect part. It is not, the flesh is only material earthly matter, and it will go back to the earthly elements where God took it from. This is why Paul taught that we all must put on the "image of the heavenly", a body he called a "spiritual body". That's why Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Cor 15:42-44
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
(KJV)

1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
(KJV)

This is the subject Christ was declaring to Nicodemus in John 3 about the difference between flesh and spirit. Nicodemus wrongly understood it as an idea of flesh being born again a second time in woman's womb. So the idea that Christ's Salvation is by our flesh and of our flesh is actually the pagan doctrine of reincarnation. We are not going to get new flesh bodies; our flesh bodies are going to be changed to the "spiritual body" state Paul preached. That's is HOW we know when Christ's Kingdom will actually come in full on earth. And that's also the glory of the world to come Paul was preaching in Romans 8.

 

[DarcyLu]

I still don't see any witness at all to the still coming glory of Christ's future bodily return, and the setting up of His de facto Kingdom on this earth, over ALL nations, with ALL bowing the knee to Him as LORD. You know, all this is past... the still coming consuming fire destruction of this earth age.

quote]

that is a silly gospel. Christ is come, His Kingdom is in us, we are His Body, He is King over ALL nations, all who are in Christ bow the knee to Him and those who don't die. We are purified in the fire of Christ's Holy Spirit in us... etc etc etc it is ALL fulfilled in US NOW.
You appear to not understand the meaning of these things if you are still looking for some "future physical" dispensational christian zionist silliness.
Veteran, you really need to pay attention to these truths and pray about them so that you aren't left out of the Blessings in Christ now because you are standing and staring up into the sky for some fictional "bodily return".
Pray about it!

Son of Israel - so you do believe this way, I have asked you repeatedly in another thread, yet I find your answer over here lol.

Version 1 is the watered down gospel, the gospel that if we say the "sinner's prayer", raise our hands during the "altar call", "accept Jesus into our heart", none of these words are in the Word. Yet this is what churches teach.
Read the Word for yourselves!

 

[glorydaz]

I still don't see any witness at all to the still coming glory of Christ's future bodily return, and the setting up of His de facto Kingdom on this earth, over ALL nations, with ALL bowing the knee to Him as LORD. You know, all this is past... the still coming consuming fire destruction of this earth age.

quote]

that is a silly gospel. Christ is come, His Kingdom is in us, we are His Body, He is King over ALL nations, all who are in Christ bow the knee to Him and those who don't die. We are purified in the fire of Christ's Holy Spirit in us... etc etc etc it is ALL fulfilled in US NOW.
You appear to not understand the meaning of these things if you are still looking for some "future physical" dispensational christian zionist silliness.
Veteran, you really need to pay attention to these truths and pray about them so that you aren't left out of the Blessings in Christ now because you are standing and staring up into the sky for some fictional "bodily return".
Pray about it!

Son of Israel - so you do believe this way, I have asked you repeatedly in another thread, yet I find your answer over here lol.

Version 1 is the watered down gospel, the gospel that if we say the "sinner's prayer", raise our hands during the "altar call", "accept Jesus into our heart", none of these words are in the Word. Yet this is what churches teach.
Read the Word for yourselves!

Oh, so the old altar call is a farce, huh?
The Bible must be a farce, as well.
The kingdom of God is where the King is....he dwells in the hearts of all true believers.
Only those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit of Christ could even comprehend such a thing.

His kingdom is eternal...there may be some disagreement about whether that kingdom will be on the earth or in heaven, but it certainly isn't a "watered down" Gospel to declare that Christ lives in the heart of every child of God...those who have been born again.

That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

[DarcyLu]

His kingdom is eternal...there may be some disagreement about whether that kingdom will be on the earth or in heaven, but it certainly isn't a "watered down" Gospel to declare that Christ lives in the heart of every child of God...those who have been born again.

Yet, what you wrote, glory, is what I am seeing it’s all about, it’s extremely important to know if the Kingdom will be here or in heaven. As I read the Word, it appears, He not only lives in our hearts, but we are the kingdom – here, now.
I just want to know with certainty , that is all, and if that is really true, then yes, we have a watered down gospel because it can happen HERE and NOW versus waiting.

Blessings to you.

 

[glorydaz]

His kingdom is eternal...there may be some disagreement about whether that kingdom will be on the earth or in heaven, but it certainly isn't a "watered down" Gospel to declare that Christ lives in the heart of every child of God...those who have been born again.

Yet, what you wrote, glory, is what I am seeing it’s all about, it’s extremely important to know if the Kingdom will be here or in heaven. As I read the Word, it appears, He not only lives in our hearts, but we are the kingdom – here, now.
I just want to know with certainty , that is all, and if that is really true, then yes, we have a watered down gospel because it can happen HERE and NOW versus waiting.

Blessings to you.

Gosh, it makes me wonder where you've been going to church...no offense, but hopefully the church is still teaching we're in the kingdom of God. The kingdom is wherever the King is. The church is His body...a temple built without hands. Have you read through the kingdom parables? The one where the wheat and tares grow side by side until the harvest is a picture of the kingdom now. And the harvest is when He comes again to judge. The kingdom now is the marriage of the Bride (us) and at His second coming will be the consumation of the marriage. So the kingdom was established at His first coming, and will be visibly manifested to us "face to face" when He comes again.

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

 

[DarcyLu]

His kingdom is eternal...there may be some disagreement about whether that kingdom will be on the earth or in heaven, but it certainly isn't a "watered down" Gospel to declare that Christ lives in the heart of every child of God...those who have been born again.

Yet, what you wrote, glory, is what I am seeing it’s all about, it’s extremely important to know if the Kingdom will be here or in heaven. As I read the Word, it appears, He not only lives in our hearts, but we are the kingdom – here, now.
I just want to know with certainty , that is all, and if that is really true, then yes, we have a watered down gospel because it can happen HERE and NOW versus waiting.

Blessings to you.

Gosh, it makes me wonder where you've been going to church...no offense, but hopefully the church is still teaching we're in the kingdom of God. The kingdom is wherever the King is. The church is His body...a temple built without hands. Have you read through the kingdom parables? The one where the wheat and tares grow side by side until the harvest is a picture of the kingdom now. And the harvest is when He comes again to judge. The kingdom now is the marriage of the Bride (us) and at His second coming will be the consumation of the marriage. So the kingdom was established at His first coming, and will be visibly manifested to us "face to face" when He comes again.

no offense taken, but what i wrote is what C was talking about in the OP, the kingdom here and now.
it's option #2, read son of israel's post again. they are both talking about the kingdom here and now, the kingdom is in us as Christ is in us - we are the kingdom.

 

[Son of Israel]

The Kingdom is in us. Nobody can deny that, but we can Praise the Lord
Flesh and blood doesn't "inherit" no of course not veteran. Nobody is saying that. You are altogether missing the point. All scripture must harmonize.
We who "bend the knee" are those "everyone".
Those who don't are those who are destroyed. The ones who bend the knee are eternal.
The Kingdom in us grows and grows and grows... until when this body is put off, we all who are brethren in the body of Christ then are as He is Now! (Which is NOT in a body veteran! That is silliness.)
He is IN US. Christ in you. Christ in me. That is why He said He had to be Glorified in order to "Come".
We are all one by His Resurrected and Glorified Spirit of Holiness in us.
That is the Kingdom of God on the earth. WE ARE THE EARTH.
Christ is in us and He gushes out from us as Living Water by His Glorified Spirit in us, that is what He is trying to tell you and me here...


(Joh 7:38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(Joh 7:39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Those within Whom this Glorified Spirit of Jesus Christ dwells are the Heavenly City Jerusalem bringing forth Sons of God!

(Gal 4:26) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(Gal 4:27) For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

(Gal 4:28) Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

(Gal 4:29) But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

(Gal 4:30) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

(Gal 4:31) So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

As you can also see from those scriptures, that Jerusalem over in the middle east is in bondage and has no inheritance with the true Israel Sons of God. They are as Esau or Ismael.

This Gospel message is clear and Beautiful and paves the way for each of us to open our hearts up right this very minute to RECEIVE Hi and be FULLY IN HIS PRESence right now

This is my position with Christ...


(1Th 2:19) for what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? are not even ye before our Lord Jesus Christ in his presence?

May we all be so Blessed!

(Jud 1:25) to the only wise God our Saviour, is glory and greatness, power and authority, both now and to all the ages! Amen.

Son of Israel

 

[glorydaz]

no offense taken, but what i wrote is what C was talking about in the OP, the kingdom here and now.
it's option #2, read son of israel's post again. they are both talking about the kingdom here and now, the kingdom is in us as Christ is in us - we are the kingdom.

No problem...I agree, which is why I gave you this verse.

Luke 17:20-21 wrote:
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

It's here now, within the believer because Jesus is within us.
He will come again and when He does, we will live for eternity with Him.

 

[DarcyLu]

no offense taken, but what i wrote is what C was talking about in the OP, the kingdom here and now.
it's option #2, read son of israel's post again. they are both talking about the kingdom here and now, the kingdom is in us as Christ is in us - we are the kingdom.

No problem...I agree, which is why I gave you this verse.

Luke 17:20-21 wrote:
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

It's here now, within the believer because Jesus is within us.
He will come again and when He does, we will live for eternity with Him.

He will come again, in us, not coming from the sky, but in us - we are His Body, so He is coming in us.

 

[glorydaz]

no offense taken, but what i wrote is what C was talking about in the OP, the kingdom here and now.
it's option #2, read son of israel's post again. they are both talking about the kingdom here and now, the kingdom is in us as Christ is in us - we are the kingdom.

No problem...I agree, which is why I gave you this verse.

Luke 17:20-21 wrote:
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

It's here now, within the believer because Jesus is within us.
He will come again and when He does, we will live for eternity with Him.

He will come again, in us, not coming from the sky, but in us - we are His Body, so He is coming in us.

He's in us now...He will come again from the sky, returning as He left.
When He comes again, the believers will be given glorified bodies like the one He had when He rose from the dead. Remember how he stayed around for 40 days in His new body. It was a preview of how we'll be when He comes again. (He could walk through walls...I like that part).

He will come to judge and gather His Bride (believers).

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

In the fulness of time God will come and separate the believers from the unbelievers...the time of judgment. The judgment is one of God's promises.

14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.