The Two-Minute Salvation

[OzSpen]

I don't know that some day I won't be a fundamentalist, for lack of a better term. I don't know where the journey will end. Wouldn't be that great a journey if I did.

So what's a fundamentalist?

 

[OzSpen]

No, I'm labelling you as someone who knows more about the Bible than I do.

I'd appreciate your explanation of what you mean by the term, 'scriptural fundamentalist'.

What is your approach to interpretation of any text, whether that be your local newspaper, C S Lewis's Mere Christianity, or reading the Bible?

Oz

 

[KevinK]

We'll have to do this some other time, OzPen. We've already gone too far OT. And I'm late for dinner.

 

[Sinthesis]

Mat 20:1 ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
Mat 20:2 - And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
Mat 20:3 - And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
Mat 20:4 - And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
Mat 20:5 - Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
Mat 20:6 - And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
Mat 20:7 - They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
Mat 20:8 - So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
Mat 20:9 - And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
Mat 20:10 - But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
Mat 20:11 - And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Mat 20:12 - Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
Mat 20:13 - But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Mat 20:14 - Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
Mat 20:15 - Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Mat 20:16 - So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

 

[OzSpen]

Mat 20:1 ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
Mat 20:2 - And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
Mat 20:3 - And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
Mat 20:4 - And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
Mat 20:5 - Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
Mat 20:6 - And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
Mat 20:7 - They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
Mat 20:8 - So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
Mat 20:9 - And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
Mat 20:10 - But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
Mat 20:11 - And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Mat 20:12 - Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
Mat 20:13 - But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Mat 20:14 - Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
Mat 20:15 - Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Mat 20:16 - So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Doing a copy and paste of 16 verses of Scripture is pointless unless you expound the points you are wanting to make.

 

[Sinthesis]

Doing a copy and paste of 16 verses of Scripture is pointless unless you expound the points you are wanting to make.

I could tell everyone how it applies directly to the topic in the thread concerning works and grace, but I'd rather have people think about it first.

 

[Jim Parker]

I could tell everyone how it applies directly to the topic in the thread concerning works and grace, but I'd rather have people think about it first.

That makes no sense.
If you have something to say then say it.
Don't be shy. We can only pretend to bite.

 

[OzSpen]

I could tell everyone how it applies directly to the topic in the thread concerning works and grace, but I'd rather have people think about it first.

Well, at least have the courtesy to tell us that. A copy and paste is useless without your explanation for posting it.

 

[Sinthesis]

One way to look at Matt 20:1-16 is where Jesus is describing how Christianity will work in the real world. Jesus is the Householder, and He has work that needs to be done by others in the purpose of bettering the world (His vineyard). The reward for a day's (or entire lifetime's) work is eternal life. One doesn't work for an employer they don't believe can/will reward them. So it is belief that associates one with Jesus before any work is done. If another follower doesn't join Jesus' operation until two minutes before death, should we be angered that they did so little work for a reward equal to ours? It is not the quantity or quality work for which we are given eternal life, but the setting aside our selfish personal duties and wants in order to follow the direction of Jesus whom we believe will reward us better than we could ever reward ourselves.

 

[Cygnus]

So back to my 2-minute salvation, you have to believe and do good works, but in the absence of time the "good works" part is waived (as it was for the good thief)?

Good works are a by-product of one's salvation...not a means of obtaining it.

 

[Jim Parker]

Good works are a by-product of one's salvation...not a means of obtaining it.

Absolutely.
And, according to Jesus, a NECESSARY by-product. (Mat 25:31-46, Jhn 5:28-29)

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

So back to my 2-minute salvation, you have to believe and do good works, but in the absence of time the "good works" part is waived (as it was for the good thief)?

Hi Kevin. Would you mind clarifying what "absence of time" means? The thief on the cross comes to mind. I believe he was saved because Jesus understood that his conversion was sincere and that IF he had the opportunity he would use his life to practice the values of heaven (i.e. to at least try to be good to God and others).

Do you mean something like that? I think that could be relevant for deathbed conversions though only God would know how sincere the conversion is. The author of Hebrews says that Esau found no repentance, though he sought it with "careful tears". The implication seems to be that the tears were presumably meant to be a sign of repentance, but they were "careful" or perhaps insincere? I think God knows the difference.

Anyway, as for two minutes, I think that's enough time for someone to decide that they do want to act on the teachings of Jesus (i.e. perform good works).

 

[KevinK]

Well, I think you got it. Two minutes is plenty of time to commit intention to do good works, but no time to actually perform any.

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

Well, I think you got it. Two minutes is plenty of time to commit intention to do good works, but no time to actually perform any.

Though they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I think, while a "2 minute" salvation could be enough time, those situations should be the exception. I personally believe salvation requires a lifetime commitment. If you only have 2 minutes of life left, then that's fair enough. But for most of us we've got significantly more time than that. Months, years or even decades, in which any one of us could end up backsliding. Yesterday's faith isn't good enough for today!

 

[KevinK]

Though they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I think, while a "2 minute" salvation could be enough time, those situations should be the exception. I personally believe salvation requires a lifetime commitment. If you only have 2 minutes of life left, then that's fair enough. But for most of us we've got significantly more time than that. Months, years or even decades, in which any one of us could end up backsliding. Yesterday's faith isn't good enough for today!

Oh, I certainly agree with everything you say. I am targetting people in my life who are non-believers (don't we all have those?). What if the last trumpet (before Rapture) is sounding (I guess this is a pre-trib scenario), but God in His mercy allows a two-minute warning- maybe just enough time for a believer to evangelize a non-believer because he can no longer deny it. "OK", he says, "now I believe, what do I do next?" What do you say to them?

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

Oh, I certainly agree with everything you say. I am targetting people in my life who are non-believers (don't we all have those?). What if the last trumpet (before Rapture) is sounding (I guess this is a pre-trib scenario), but God in His mercy allows a two-minute warning- maybe just enough time for a believer to evangelize a non-believer because he can no longer deny it. "OK", he says, "now I believe, what do I do next?" What do you say to them?

Well, I take the post trib view, though in the case of repentance I'm not sure it would matter. The return of Jesus happens for all of us at the point of death.

As for what to do next, I'm not sure if I get your meaning properly. Do you mean in the context of someone who only has 2 minutes of life left? If that's what you mean, I'm not sure there is much they can do but spend it in desperate prayer for forgiveness!

If you mean what should they do in general, (like if they have more than 2 minutes left) I think the teachings of Jesus would be the best place to start. What did he tell his followers to do (and not do)?

 

[KevinK]

Do you mean in the context of someone who only has 2 minutes of life left?

Yes, two minutes left, and only two minutes. But they're hanging on your every word.

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

Yes, two minutes left, and only two minutes. But they're hanging on your every word.

I'm not sure how much you could communicate to them in that amount of time. I think the main concept God would be interested in is sincerity, so perhaps finding words to encourage them in that context. Or, perhaps just being there for them and showing them love in their dying moments, without a lot of pressure to convert, would be best for them. I think that's what got through to the thief on the cross.

 

[rthom7]

KevinK this is an important question, how fast can one be saved.... Salvation is compared to with similes to trees or plants that grow. In order to be saved once must accept the SEED, a symbol of Jesus, which is germinated in the heart ( this is called justification by scholars or in Scripture returning home to Christ), next the seed needs help from you (prayer and bible study) so you learn to appreciate how the Seedling grows in your life.... and last the Seedling must produce fruits of the Holy Spirit, a replication of Christ's righteousness in the believer.

So that's take the Seed, let it grow, pray for it's continue power of growth and allow it to fruit so you share it's glory with others. The fastest seed in Mother Nature are ephemeral plants in a desert, seed to fruit in 3 weeks.

For Bible examples of salvation is about 2 minutes, such as the thief dying on the cross.
While their works for Jesus is limited, they do bring Him glory in those dying minutes.... some might use this too live a carnal life and come to Jesus in our dying breath...does this make sense ? no .... if Jesus offered you paradise today with Him, why not take it now, for ig you have Jesus in your heart, you are in everything good.... heaven as a place comes later...

For a study of this, the steps to Jesus, see my study in Hosea, which in other spelling is called the Book of Yeshua, a parable of Jesus marrying us in salvation, it finishes with marriage and plant growing allegories...

http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-776.htm

Or here

STEPS TO JESUS Q4: What is the 7 second prayer of salvation ?

Lu 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, " God be merciful to me a sinner. "

This simple prayer in just 7 seconds obeys all the first three requirements of the Father's Ten "Commandment" Principles of relationship unto salvation....
Jesus than pronounces the fourth Principle of salvation, the Sabbath blessing of resting. This means being made separated from Satan's world...
Lu 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified...
.. For whoever makes himself proud, will be humbled... and whoever is humbled, will rise up to my level... Shalom

Getting started theme

Shalom

 

[Cygnus]

Salvation doesn't depend on any two minutes. Salvation depends upon the Holy Spirit opening a heart such as He did with Lydia in Acts 16.

If the Holy Spirit is calling an individual and your the messenger.....God will, that is will, prevail.

In the "last two minutes"...if it were to happen then, it is God who chooses us and not us who chooses God.