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The Verse That Annihilates All "Rapture" Theology

The wrath of God/the Lamb- Rev. 6:12. I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
13. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
14. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
15. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
16. and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17. "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?''
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Thought I would add a little these vs.

Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17. "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?''
Who siting on the throne at this time? It's the Anti-christ pretending to be Jesus/God 2 ths 2:4

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;"
there was a great earthquake
This speaks of a great shaking of the air (spirit) and the quaking of the people as these fallen angels arrive in the sight of flesh men.

medaphor (figure of speech), "and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair"
The "sun" representing GOD's Light , GOD's Truth is blocked out (in the minds of the people) by the arrival of these fallen angels, because they come disguised, and the majority of the people will accept them. 2 COR 11:14-15.

Rev 6:13"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

We can see these fallen angels arriving in the sight of earthly flesh men.
And, FATHER gives us another sign as HE likens it to "a fig tree casteth her
untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind".

These "untimely figs" are out of season. They come too soon for the real
harvest, therefore it speaks of the time of the apostasy.

Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together.
Heaven is closed, Rev 11:6, Rev 15:8 at the time of anti-Christ.

"and every mountain and island were moved out of their places"
This speaks of every nation and government (large and small) which no
longer shall be 'doing business as usual', because, when the fallen angels are here, they shall set up the 'one world' government/religion,(Rev 13) and all will be moved under their jurisdiction, under their laws.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

What is happening here at this time?
People shall be frightened. And, they shall look to their own governments
("mountains") and religions for protection.

"hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne"
Whose "image" is it that shall be "set up"? Who is he whom these fallen
angels shall place on the "throne"? Satan

But, what did these people say?
"Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and
from the wrath of the Lamb"

The deceived people think it is the lamb sitting on the throne at that time.
Why would they not be rejoicing, if they were truly Christians?

"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

God's Elect stand Eph 6:14 with the Gospel Armor (this word,truth) in place.

Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

If you don't Worship the Anti-Christ, God is not angry with you. He loves those that keep His commandments, and do them.
 
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

What is happening here at this time?
People shall be frightened. And, they shall look to their own governments
("mountains") and religions for protection.

"hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne"
Whose "image" is it that shall be "set up"? Who is he whom these fallen
angels shall place on the "throne"? Satan

But, what did these people say?
"Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and
from the wrath of the Lamb"

The deceived people think it is the lamb sitting on the throne at that time.
Why would they not be rejoicing, if they were truly Christians?
Click to expand...
This presents no problem for those of us who may be pretrib, midtrib or prewrath. (the latter is what I believe)
 
Thanks for the verses.

First, regarding the wrath of satan, please tell me the verses which pertains to the endurance of the saints.
 
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
5278 endure

hupomeno {hoop-om-en'-o}

TDNT - 4:581,581 from 5259 and 3306
1) to remain

a) to tarry behind

2) to remain i.e. abide, not recede or flee
a) to preserve: under misfortunes and trials to hold fast to one's faith in Christ

b) to endure, bear bravely and calmly: ill treatments
Or
Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls. :)
 
strengthened said:
Thanks for the verses.

First, regarding the wrath of satan, please tell me the verses which pertains to the endurance of the saints.
Click to expand...
No reflection on you at all, but from my point of view the question is misleading. I view Satan's persecution against the saints as just that: persecution... or Tribulation. God's Wrath is also just that: The Wrath of God. When I make that seperation, many verses come to mind then; the first passage being;

1 Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1 Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1 Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

That passage tells me that when I endure all that the adversary may throw at me and overcome his persecution (of the flesh and spirit, I might add) I will not be subjected to God's Wrath. Therefore I endure.
 
i find it humorous that no one has actually said anything about the original verse...

i totally forgot about this thread, so i wouldn't remember if some one did though.
 
How's this for ya, wavy?....
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
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It is (to me, anyway) an asinine comedy of delusion for all these supposedly intelligent people arguing and dividing themselves over the time element of the rapture. They want to be whisked away, like a little bit of dust after someone has swept the floor. They want to be ready to go up in a rapture that isn't going to happen. Not before, not during, and certainly not after the tribulation period. Not in a thousand ages.

Jesus' words here even state, "I pray that You wouldn't take them out of the world, but that You would protect them from the evil one."

Remember in the movie, "Forrest Gump" when Forrest got shot in the hind-end and got a medal for it? Well, this verse of scripture shoots the Rapture Theory in the hind-end. Only the Rapture Theory folks don't get a medal, they just get egg on their face.
:eggface:
(Well,,, that verse, and an extremely long list of other scriptures that flatly state that the righteous are not going to be taken out of the earth, but that the wicked is who will be removed.)

I had a preacher that had more zeal than good sense challenge me to an open debate on the Biblical existence of a Rapture. I had a messenger take a small vial of smelling salts to his office, with a note attached to call me if he didn't get the hint. So, he calls me on the phone and asked me what it was supposed to mean. I screamed; "WAKE UP!!" in his ear. "There is no rapture. And the sooner you wake up and realize that, the better off you will be." And then I hung up the phone on him. He hasn't bothered to call me back. I don't know why.
 
I had a messenger take a small vial of smelling salts to his office, with a note attached to call me if he didn't get the hint. So, he calls me on the phone and asked me what it was supposed to mean. I screamed; "WAKE UP!!" in his ear. "There is no rapture. And the sooner you wake up and realize that, the better off you will be." And then I hung up the phone on him. He hasn't bothered to call me back. I don't know why.
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Maybe it had something to do with... oh nerver mind.

Now, if you want to discuss this in a civil fashion, Jason has stated a similar concern here:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 125#263125
 
vic said:
I had a messenger take a small vial of smelling salts to his office, with a note attached to call me if he didn't get the hint. So, he calls me on the phone and asked me what it was supposed to mean. I screamed; "WAKE UP!!" in his ear. "There is no rapture. And the sooner you wake up and realize that, the better off you will be." And then I hung up the phone on him. He hasn't bothered to call me back. I don't know why.
Click to expand...
Maybe it had something to do with... oh nerver mind.

Now, if you want to discuss this in a civil fashion, Jason has stated a similar concern here:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 125#263125
Click to expand...

Hey Vic, here's the quick and dirty and then I'll try and bulk it up over the next day or so...

Abraham's Seed

Ga 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Who is Abraham's seed? Those in Christ. How is one in Christ and heir to the promise? Election. For the pretrib rapture and removal of the Church to work, you'd have to have pre-Church saints being saved outside of Christ...Ryrie trys to apply a little double speak when he writes about "content of faith." He claims they believed God but just weren't sure what they believed about Christ...it was all in types...but not Christ. Again, this is real quick, I apologize.

1Pe 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Only one people, one promise, by Grace.

Amen.

JM
 
Vic said:
Maybe it had something to do with... oh nerver mind.
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:-D Really though, it's alright. I went to school with this guy. He knows me well enough to not get shook up over something like that.
Vic continues... said:
Now, if you want to discuss this in a civil fashion, Jason has stated a similar concern here
Click to expand...
Alright. I do know how to take a hint. My point wasn't to be uncivil as much as it was to just be a red-neck clown. But to some folks, a red-neck clown is uncivil.

But allow me to ask an honest question here...
Would it help if I posted a lengthy list of scriptures that point out the foolishness of a Rapture Theory? People on here have been arguing non-issues on this topic for as long as I have been following it. Straining at gnats in an attempt to avoid the obvious.

But let's say I posted a list of 60 to 70, maybe 100 scriptures or more that dispose of the Rapture Theory: would anyone really read them? I mean really, who would seriously consider 100 scriptures that say "No", when they have already memorized the 5 or 6 that they think says "Yes" (when in fact they don't)? It is too hard to get them to move out of their comfort zone.

People have a hard time with someone who wants to take something away from them, like me. And if I could show you how asinine (and dangerous) it really is to believe in a rapture, would you even consider the alternative? Or would I have to send you some smelling salts as well?

Actually, the best thing I could do is to point you in the right direction, and leave the rest to a Higher Authority. Eh?
 
Alright. I do know how to take a hint. My point wasn't to be uncivil as much as it was to just be a red-neck clown. But to some folks, a red-neck clown is uncivil.
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No hint intended. I just want this to be a civil debate, that's all. Look above your post. Jason already started his explaination here. This is as good a place as any thread to discuss this. Carry on... and by all means, post some scripture so people can follow your line of reasoning. It doesn't have to be 60 or 70 refs, a few will do and will make it easier to respond.

Let it be known though, that not all who believe in what Paul calls a harpazio, believe there will be some sort of secret airlift, "hey, where did they go" type of catching up.

This ought to make for an interesting discussion. I also believe any one person's views on this are less right or wrong, in God's eyes anyway. THIS is NOT a salvific issue. 8-)
 
Good post Jason. I admire you for looking outside the teachings of Ryrie, Ice and the others. One 'elect'... somehow I think I have been alluding to this without actually stating it. Several times I have brought to attention that Grace indeed, was in effect in the OT and that we (NT saints) have been "grafted" in. Romans 11 goes into this grafting.

I still do believe there is One Fold with more than one flock in it though. :wink:


*edited for misspelling and missing word*
 
Vic,
sometimes I forget that not everyone knows me well enough to take me with a grain of salt. I need to be more careful being me.

I will start posting scriptures on this subject. It may be a day or two to start gathering them up. But I will start posting lists of scriptures.
 
It's all good Ben. 8-)

Hey, I may slip from time to time and use the word ratpure when writing about my view, so don't be too hard on me, ok? :-D I sometimes use it as a matter of convenience, though most the time I will try and use harpazio, catching up or gathering.

Here is a link for Jason or anyone else interested in the the dangers of a pre-tribulation "rapture".

http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp
 
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