The Victorious Christ

[Robert Pate]

Many believe that when they accepted Jesus that is what saved them, while others believe that they were saved when they said the sinner's prayer. Some believe that they were saved and became Christians when they took the sacraments. None of those things save, nor will they cause one to be born again. Believing in Jesus is not exactly what saves us. There are multitudes of people that believe in Jesus but reject the Gospel and justification by faith alone. They are not Christians, they are counterfeits.

God's ways are not our ways, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" Isaiah 55:8-9.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed. Jesus is the victorious Christ that has defeated sin, death and the devil. Jesus now sits in heaven as.... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Some will say, "If Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil then why is there so much trouble in the world?". This is where faith comes in. Not many believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17. Not many believe that Jesus fulfilled the law and atoned for their sins, making them complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high" Hebrews 1:3.

This is what saved us. This is what makes us complete "In Christ". Because Jesus defeated sin, death and the devil God accepted Jesus back into heaven and made him "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. And is why Jesus is the victorious Christ. When Jesus returns it will be to claim that which is his. For the unsaved and for Satan it is going to be hell to pay. Judgment day will have arrived and the wrath of God is going to be evident.

 

[Robert Pate]

Here is a question. If Jesus has already defeated sin, death and the devil then why would anyone be so concerned about their salvation? If we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10, then why would anyone need religion? If we have ALREADY been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. then why would anyone need laws, rules and religion? Salvation is a rest. We rest in the work and the person of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 4:10.

 

[Free]

Here is a question. If Jesus has already defeated sin, death and the devil then why would anyone be so concerned about their salvation? If we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10, then why would anyone need religion? If we have ALREADY been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. then why would anyone need laws, rules and religion? Salvation is a rest. We rest in the work and the person of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 4:10.

It depends on what you mean by rest. As followers of the religion that is Christianity, believers are justified by grace and there is nothing we can do to merit that. However, rest isn’t about doing nothing at all.

We are still being sanctified and there is much we are to do, with the help of the Spirit, as a part of that process. There are numerous rules and commands for believers in the NT, which is one of the reasons it was written, so that we know how to live as followers of Christ.

 

[Robert Pate]

It depends on what you mean by rest. As followers of the religion that is Christianity, believers are justified by grace and there is nothing we can do to merit that. However, rest isn’t about doing nothing at all.

We are still being sanctified and there is much we are to do, with the help of the Spirit, as a part of that process. There are numerous rules and commands for believers in the NT, which is one of the reasons it was written, so that we know how to live as followers of Christ.

There are no laws or rules for those that are "In Christ", only the ones that you impose upon yourself.

The reason is.... "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4.

All that have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him are given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and teacher, not the law. The law is for those that are Pharisees.

 

[Free]

There are no laws or rules for those that are "In Christ", only the ones that you impose upon yourself.

The reason is.... "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4.

All that have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him are given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and teacher, not the law. The law is for those that are Pharisees.

You’re begging the question. The NT is full of rules and commands for believers that have nothing to do with Mosaic law.

 

[Free]

Here are just a few of the rules and commands for believers:

Rom 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
...
Rom 12:9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.
Rom 12:10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
Rom 12:11 Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.
Rom 12:12 Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.
Rom 12:13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.
Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
Rom 12:15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
Rom 12:16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight.
Rom 12:17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.
Rom 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
Rom 12:20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.”
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

How many are there, from just one chapter?

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
...
Rom 13:7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
...
Rom 13:12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.
Rom 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

Rom 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
Rom 14:3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.
...
Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
...
Rom 14:16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil.
...
Rom 14:19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
Rom 14:20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats.
Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.

Rom 15:1 We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Rom 15:2 Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.
...
Rom 15:7 Therefore welcome one another as Christ has welcomed you, for the glory of God.


Lest you think these things only appear in Romans:

1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

1Co 5:2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
...
1Co 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
...
1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—
1Co 5:10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
...
1Co 5:13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

Note that in 1 Cor 15:13, Paul even quotes this verse from the Mosaic Law as still appropriate for believers.

(All ESV.)

 

[Free]

Continuing on:

Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Gal 6:4 But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor.
Gal 6:5 For each will have to bear his own load.
Gal 6:6 Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches.
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Gal 6:9 And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
Gal 6:10 So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Php 2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
Php 2:4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.
...
Php 2:14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing,

Col 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.
...
Col 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
...
Col 3:8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices
...
Col 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,
Col 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
Col 3:14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.
Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
...
Col 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.
Col 3:20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.
Col 3:21 Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.
Col 3:22 Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.

1Ti 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
1Ti 3:3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
1Ti 3:4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
1Ti 3:5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
1Ti 3:6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.
1Ti 3:9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.
1Ti 3:13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

1Ti 5:1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers,
1Ti 5:2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.
1Ti 5:3 Honor widows who are truly widows.
1Ti 5:4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God.
1Ti 5:5 She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day,
1Ti 5:6 but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives.
1Ti 5:7 Command these things as well, so that they may be without reproach.

(All ESV.)

I could go on. Nearly every book in the NT has some rules and commands for believers, but I'll finish with this:

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

God's ways are not our ways, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" Isaiah 55:8-9.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed. Jesus is the victorious Christ that has defeated sin, death and the devil. Jesus now sits in heaven as.... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Some will say, "If Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil then why is there so much trouble in the world?". This is where faith comes in. Not many believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17. Not many believe that Jesus fulfilled the law and atoned for their sins, making them complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

Actually the Bible says God sees all things. He sees that sin, death and the devil have not been destroyed as the last enemy to BE (future) destroyed is death. Sin is also still here and God is not blind to it. Your picture of God is pretty sad, God does not see the sin that hurts us or that we commit. He does not see that people still die. He just sees the world "in Christ" whatever that means. It is odd that people who do see that others die are not employing faith when it is really blindness.

You know, it is very comforting to come to God with your struggles believing He sees and knows. The God you describe does not see and does not know that we suffer from the sin of others or suffer from our sin. The God you describe only sees Jesus, that is it. That is pretty terrible.

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high" Hebrews 1:3.

This is what saved us. This is what makes us complete "In Christ". Because Jesus defeated sin, death and the devil God accepted Jesus back into heaven and made him "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. And is why Jesus is the victorious Christ. When Jesus returns it will be to claim that which is his. For the unsaved and for Satan it is going to be hell to pay. Judgment day will have arrived and the wrath of God is going to be evident.

Wow, Jesus had to be "accepted" into Heaven by God. Whew, glad he made it. Was maybe a bit dodgy if he would be accepted. What a strange concept!! Jesus said he was returning to God. No mention of "I hope you let me in."

Now Jesus is ruling and reigning from his throne, that is true. But he really does see the world and people as they are as does the Father. That is our hope and comfort.

 

[Robert Pate]

Actually the Bible says God sees all things. He sees that sin, death and the devil have not been destroyed as the last enemy to BE (future) destroyed is death. Sin is also still here and God is not blind to it. Your picture of God is pretty sad, God does not see the sin that hurts us or that we commit. He does not see that people still die. He just sees the world "in Christ" whatever that means. It is odd that people who do see that others die are not employing faith when it is really blindness.

You know, it is very comforting to come to God with your struggles believing He sees and knows. The God you describe does not see and does not know that we suffer from the sin of others or suffer from our sin. The God you describe only sees Jesus, that is it. That is pretty terrible.

Wow, Jesus had to be "accepted" into Heaven by God. Whew, glad he made it. Was maybe a bit dodgy if he would be accepted. What a strange concept!! Jesus said he was returning to God. No mention of "I hope you let me in."

Now Jesus is ruling and reigning from his throne, that is true. But he really does see the world and people as they are as does the Father. That is our hope and comfort.

You say a lot, but you don't have scripture to backup what you say. Should we listen to someone that has no scripture?

If God saw things as they really are he would have to judge the world because the whole world is evil, Galatians 1:4. Jesus has provided salvation for the whole world and is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17. When God looks at this present evil world all that he can see is his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. This is why God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:27-28.

If you cannot quote scripture to refute me, it may be better not to try.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You say a lot, but you don't have scripture to backup what you say. Should we listen to someone that has no scripture?

He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

Gods sees the hearts. That’s hard to see. Do you really think He is totally blind to what people do but sees the hearts?

If God saw things as they really are he would have to judge the world because the whole world is evil, Galatians 1:4.

Why do you think that? I wish you would actually cut and paste your scriptures. They just about NEVER say what you claim. “who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,” Not a single word about judging the world!! Sigh!

Jesus has provided salvation for the whole world and is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17. When God looks at this present evil world all that he can see is his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. This is why God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:27-28.

I can see why you don’t cut and paste those verses as they won’t say God is blind either.

If you cannot quote scripture to refute me, it may be better not to try.

Well you don’t quote scripture just references that have nothing to do with your position!!!!!

 

[Robert Pate]

He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

Gods sees the hearts. That’s hard to see. Do you really think He is totally blind to what people do but sees the hearts?

Why do you think that? I wish you would actually cut and paste your scriptures. They just about NEVER say what you claim. “who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,” Not a single word about judging the world!! Sigh!

I can see why you don’t cut and paste those verses as they won’t say God is blind either.

Well you don’t quote scripture just references that have nothing to do with your position!!!!!

Again, you are trying to refute me without scripture.

The world will be judged when Jesus returns, John 12:31. The mark of God is the Holy Spirit, all that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will be saved, they are the bought ones, 1 Corinthians 6:20.

 

[jaybo]

Continuing on:

Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Gal 6:4 But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor.
Gal 6:5 For each will have to bear his own load.
Gal 6:6 Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches.
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Gal 6:9 And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
Gal 6:10 So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Php 2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
Php 2:4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.
...
Php 2:14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing,

Col 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.
...
Col 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
...
Col 3:8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices
...
Col 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,
Col 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
Col 3:14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.
Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
...
Col 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.
Col 3:20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.
Col 3:21 Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.
Col 3:22 Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.

1Ti 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
1Ti 3:3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
1Ti 3:4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
1Ti 3:5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
1Ti 3:6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.
1Ti 3:9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.
1Ti 3:13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

1Ti 5:1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers,
1Ti 5:2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.
1Ti 5:3 Honor widows who are truly widows.
1Ti 5:4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God.
1Ti 5:5 She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day,
1Ti 5:6 but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives.
1Ti 5:7 Command these things as well, so that they may be without reproach.

(All ESV.)

I could go on. Nearly every book in the NT has some rules and commands for believers, but I'll finish with this:

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

I'm certain that almost everyone on this forum owns at least one Bible, so what is the point of posting verse after verse after verse after verse..? Also, perhaps you're not aware that verses are a much later addition to the Bible texts. They are not part of Scripture and break up the flow of the writings.

 

[Free]

I'm certain that almost everyone on this forum owns at least one Bible, so what is the point of posting verse after verse after verse after verse..?

If you look at what I was replying to, my argument and reasoning should make it very apparent why. Really, why post any verse if everyone owns or has access to a Bible? Weren't you just recently chiding someone for supposedly not using Scripture to support their argument?

Also, perhaps you're not aware that verses are a much later addition to the Bible texts. They are not part of Scripture and break up the flow of the writings.

Of course I am aware, but that has nothing to do with posting verses.

 

[jaybo]

If you look at what I was replying to, my argument and reasoning should make it very apparent why. Really, why post any verse if everyone owns or has access to a Bible? Weren't you just recently chiding someone for supposedly not using Scripture to support their argument?


Of course I am aware, but that has nothing to do with posting verses.

I wrote about posting " verse after verse after verse after verse", not just a reasonable selection.

Regarding verses, the early source documents had no such divisions. Chapters and verses were added to the translations at a much later dater, artificially chopping up the text and making it more difficult to read.

1) There is no
2) value to be
3) gained by chopping
4) up any text
5) artificially, making it
6) more difficult
7) to read.

 

[Free]

I wrote about posting " verse after verse after verse after verse", not just a reasonable selection.

It is a reasonable selection, given just how many more there are to support my argument. Besides, I did it to make a point, which is, that there are many verses which prove the other position false. The interesting thing is, that point wasn't addressed to you.

Regarding verses, the early source documents had no such divisions. Chapters and verses were added to the translations at a much later dater, artificially chopping up the text and making it more difficult to read.

Which is completely irrelevant to this and any other discussion where the Bible is referenced.

1) There is no
2) value to be
3) gained by chopping
4) up any text
5) artificially, making it
6) more difficult
7) to read.

Okay. So, would you prefer if I copied and pasted all my chapters and verses and then edited out all the chapter and verse numbers to make you happy, because you find it so difficult to read? Should we all just paste stuff from the Bible with no reference to where it is found? I find no difficulty at all in reading with the chapter and verse numbers. I simply just read the text and ignore the numbers.

You need to learn that there are battles worth fighting. This is certainly not one of them.

 

[for_his_glory]

There are no laws or rules for those that are "In Christ", only the ones that you impose upon yourself.

The reason is.... "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4.

All that have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him are given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and teacher, not the law. The law is for those that are Pharisees.

To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

We need to present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us. This is a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Morality in God is His greatest commandment of love as we treat others as we want others to treat us. God is love and wants us to love and treat others as He loves and treats us.

Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


​

 

[for_his_glory]

We are in Christ and He in us and indwelled with God's Holy Spirit, but yet, and this is no excuse, we still live in this fleshly body where the nature to sin dwells. None of us are perfect and do mess up at times, especially speaking things according to our bad emotions. Our victory comes when this corruptible puts on incorruption and this mortal puts on immortality as death is then swallowed up in victory. While we are on this earth we do need to be walking in the Spirit as we crucify this flesh daily giving no place to sin. Flesh and Spirit will always battle against each other and every once in awhile we the flesh will win a few battles, but never the war.

1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[jaybo]

It is a reasonable selection, given just how many more there are to support my argument. Besides, I did it to make a point, which is, that there are many verses which prove the other position false. The interesting thing is, that point wasn't addressed to you.


Which is completely irrelevant to this and any other discussion where the Bible is referenced.


Okay. So, would you prefer if I copied and pasted all my chapters and verses and then edited out all the chapter and verse numbers to make you happy, because you find it so difficult to read? Should we all just paste stuff from the Bible with no reference to where it is found? I find no difficulty at all in reading with the chapter and verse numbers. I simply just read the text and ignore the numbers.

You need to learn that there are battles worth fighting. This is certainly not one of them.

That's simply your opinion. If you're writing for yourself then go ahead and do as you please.
11) If you're writing
12) for others then the
13) verse numbers which are
14) not part of Scripture make
15) it difficult to read.
16) It's only your
17) opinion that
18) it is completely irrelevant to this and any other
19) discussion where the Bible
20) is referenced.
21) By the way, when
22) I post Scripture...

I remove the chapter and verse numbers (and footnotes) because that is the way the Scripture was originally written and it is easier for the reader.

Saying "Should we all just paste stuff from the Bible with no reference to where it is found?" is nonsensical. Do you have trouble understanding this, for example..?

Genesis 2:18-23, "Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner.” So out of the ground the Lord God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air and brought them to the man to see what he would call them, and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all cattle and to the birds of the air and to every animal of the field, but for the man[d] there was not found a helper as his partner. So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said,

“This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one shall be called Woman,
for out of Man this one was taken.”

Or actually prefer this...

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

I mean, seriously! Give me a break!

 

[for_his_glory]

That's simply your opinion. If you're writing for yourself then go ahead and do as you please.
11) If you're writing
12) for others then the
13) verse numbers which are
14) not part of Scripture make
15) it difficult to read.
16) It's only your
17) opinion that
18) it is completely irrelevant to this and any other
19) discussion where the Bible
20) is referenced.
21) By the way, when
22) I post Scripture...

I remove the chapter and verse numbers (and footnotes) because that is the way the Scripture was originally written and it is easier for the reader.

Saying "Should we all just paste stuff from the Bible with no reference to where it is found?" is nonsensical. Do you have trouble understanding this, for example..?

Genesis 2:18-23, "Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner.” So out of the ground the Lord God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air and brought them to the man to see what he would call them, and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all cattle and to the birds of the air and to every animal of the field, but for the man[d] there was not found a helper as his partner. So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said,

“This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one shall be called Woman,
for out of Man this one was taken.”

Or actually prefer this...

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

I mean, seriously! Give me a break!

Why are you making such a fuss about Chapter and verse numbers. Many of us use them so it makes it easier for others to look them up. But, many of us also when we read the Bible read it without the numbering. We have to remember these are letters that were written to the Churches and individuals and if we read them that way then we can get a better understanding of the collections of these letters and what is being taught. Numbering makes no difference to how we read and study scripture for ourselves.

You need to let this go and get back to the topic of the OP or start a new thread.

 

[Iconoclast]

There are no laws or rules for those that are "In Christ", only the ones that you impose upon yourself.

The reason is.... "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4.

All that have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him are given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and teacher, not the law. The law is for those that are Pharisees.

Christians are not lawless. That is known as antinomianism