The Victorious Christ

[Robert Pate]

Christians are not lawless. That is known as antinomianism

Right, Christians are not lawless. All that have come to Christ as repentant sinners are given the Holy Spirit. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to conform the believer into the image of Christ, Ephesians 2:10. The Holy Spirit would never lead one to sin.

 

[Iconoclast]

Right, Christians are not lawless. All that have come to Christ as repentant sinners are given the Holy Spirit. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to conform the believer into the image of Christ, Ephesians 2:10. The Holy Spirit would never lead one to sin.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[jaybo]

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

You need to keep reading. You're not the first person to misunderstand Paul's writing.

 

[Robert Pate]

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

That's Paul Old physical Adamic nature talking, who is the wretched man.

 

[hawkman]

Or actually prefer this...

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

I can read this much faster, so yes I do prefer the gaps . I am using a pc and a 24" monitor .
What are you reading the posts on jaybo ?

 

[jaybo]

I can read this much faster, so yes I do prefer the gaps . I am using a pc and a 24" monitor .
What are you reading the posts on jaybo ?

I am reading them on a laptop with about a 14" screen. I have been warned by an administrator (believe it or not) about discussing the subject of verse numbers, so I can't continue the discussion. I will say, however, that they are not part of Scripture.

 

[for_his_glory]

You need to keep reading. You're not the first person to misunderstand Paul's writing.

Please give us your understanding of Romans 7:7-25.

 

[for_his_glory]

I am reading them on a laptop with about a 14" screen. I have been warned by an administrator (believe it or not) about discussing the subject of verse numbers, so I can't continue the discussion. I will say, however, that they are not part of Scripture.

I only said it is better to give book chapter and verse to help others to look them up easier. It's more a curtesy for others.

 

[jaybo]

Please give us your understanding of Romans 7:7-25.

In Romans 7, Paul is clearly explaining the way that he used to live. He, like the rest of us, was a slave to sin.

For example, verse 8a: " But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting." and verse 11: " For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death." Clearly, Paul describes the way he used to be. He was living as a sinner, and was spiritually dead.

And then he wrote these incredible words: "We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me." verses 14-17

Clearly Paul was under the influence of an irresistible power. He was entirely incapable of living differently, even though he clearly wanted to. Verses 18b-20: "For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

He continues in verses 22-23, "For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me."

He is clearly trapped by a power that He is unable to resist, even though he desires to be free of its influence. Verse 25b clearly states this dilemma, "So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."

It is truly tragic that the chapter division occurs here!!! (Even though he anticipates what is coming in next in verse 25, "Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!)

Chapter 7 is followed by one of the most important thoughts ever written by any human being: "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:1-4

Wow!!!! There it is!!!! Glory to God!!!

 

[Iconoclast]

That's Paul Old physical Adamic nature talking, who is the wretched man.

No....you and Jay both are miles from the truth.vs 25....the unsaved do not serve the law of God.
Paul did, Christians do

 

[Iconoclast]

Right, Christians are not lawless. All that have come to Christ as repentant sinners are given the Holy Spirit. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to conform the believer into the image of Christ, Ephesians 2:10. The Holy Spirit would never lead one to sin.

Paul did not say the Holy Spirit led him to sin.
He said it was his own flesh.

 

[Robert Pate]

No....you and Jay both are miles from the truth.vs 25....the unsaved do not serve the law of God.
Paul did, Christians do

Paul was not ashamed to admit that he had a lower nature that was in opposition to God's law.

"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that I do not; but what I hate, that I do" Romans 7:14-15.

Paul was a sinner saved by the grace of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

Paul did not say the Holy Spirit led him to sin.
He said it was his own flesh.

It is very difficult to separate someone from their flesh. The Bible teaches that we are both flesh and Spirit in one person. We are still here on this earth in our unredeemed Adamic bodies, Romans 8:23.

 

[donadams]

You forgot Matt 28:20

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Why are some opposed to the sacraments?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” aint biblical!

You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical! Matt 16:18-19 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!

Psalm 51 Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ!

The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10
And they are applied to our souls in the church by faith and the seven sacraments!

“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(Thru faith and the sacraments!)

 

[jaybo]

You forgot Matt 28:20

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Why are some opposed to the sacraments?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” aint biblical!

You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical! Matt 16:18-19 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!

Psalm 51 Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ!

The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10
And they are applied to our souls in the church by faith and the seven sacraments!

“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(Thru faith and the sacraments!)

You're wasting your time and ours posting this stuff. Again... you are saved by God's grace. Period. Baptism is a ritual that saves no one.

 

[Robert Pate]

You forgot Matt 28:20

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Why are some opposed to the sacraments?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” aint biblical!

You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical! Matt 16:18-19 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!

Psalm 51 Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ!

The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10
And they are applied to our souls in the church by faith and the seven sacraments!

“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(Thru faith and the sacraments!)

The only thing that water baptism is going to do for you is get you wet. Chances are you are a member of the Church of Christ. The only baptism that counts for anything is when you are baptized into Christ, Romans 6:3.

 

[Tenchi]

Many believe that when they accepted Jesus that is what saved them, while others believe that they were saved when they said the sinner's prayer. Some believe that they were saved and became Christians when they took the sacraments. None of those things save, nor will they cause one to be born again. Believing in Jesus is not exactly what saves us. There are multitudes of people that believe in Jesus but reject the Gospel and justification by faith alone. They are not Christians, they are counterfeits.

Hmmm... What you've written here makes me think of the following verse:

1 Peter 1:5 (KJV)
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

"Through faith"? Interesting, no? God's keeping power seems to work in tandem with a person's faith, according to Peter, the two combining to bring the born-again person to the "salvation ready to be revealed in the last time," which is, as Peter had explained in verse 4, the "inheritance, incorruptible, undefiled, and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven" for the believer.

What does the writer of Hebrews say?

Hebrews 11:6 (NASB)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.


And Paul? What does he think?

Romans 10:9-11 (NASB)
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed."

Salvation is a Person, Jesus Christ (1 John 5:11-12; John 1:4-12; John 14:6, etc.). In him, as you've pointed out, my salvation is located. But I access that salvation by way of faith. My faith in Jesus doesn't create my salvation; my faith in him doesn't make my salvation real, nor does it serve to earn my salvation; but my faith is nonetheless crucial to my being saved. If I don't "believe in my heart" that Christ is my Lord and Savior and confess that truth with my mouth, I cannot be saved.

It's like having a brain tumor. I can't do anything myself to remove the tumor; I can't operate on myself and get it out of my head. I need a neurosurgeon for that. But if I don't believe the oncologist who tells me I have a brain tumor and I refuse to see the brain surgeon and allow him to operate on my brain, I will die of the tumor. If I won't avail myself of the saving work of the brain surgeon, trusting in him to free me of my deadly affliction, I can't be saved. But having done so, having placed my faith in the tumor-eradicating power of the neurosurgeon, I can only lay upon an operating table and receive from him his life-saving work; I can't contribute in the slightest to what actually saves me. If the surgeon doesn't do his thing and remove my tumor, none of what I've done to arrive at the operating table will matter one bit.

In the same way, my faith in the Savior is necessary to being saved; without faith in him, the work of the Great Physician benefits me not at all. But my faith in-and-of-itself has no salvific power; it is only the object of my trust - Jesus, my Savior - who can free me of my sin-sickness. Nonetheless, my faith in him is crucial to my being saved.

John 3:14-18 (NASB)
14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed. Jesus is the victorious Christ that has defeated sin, death and the devil.

Hmmm... Defeating sin, death and devil is not precisely the same as destroying them. There are many who are, right now, bound under these things very powerfully and destined to an eternity apart from God. Do you deny this? The Bible doesn't. Jesus himself said that there were only a few who found the Narrow Way (Matthew 7:13-14). In what way, then, exactly, is Christ victorious over sin, death and the devil?

Not many believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17. Not many believe that Jesus fulfilled the law and atoned for their sins, making them complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

Jesus is the potential Savior of all who by faith receive him as such; but as Scripture makes clear, the majority of people on this planet have not, and will not, put themselves under his Lordship and avail themselves of his atoning work for them at Calvary. It's worth pointing this out, it seems to me, lest someone mistake what you're saying for the false teaching of universalism.

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high" Hebrews 1:3.

This is what saved us. This is what makes us complete "In Christ". Because Jesus defeated sin, death and the devil God accepted Jesus back into heaven and made him "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. And is why Jesus is the victorious Christ.

Hebrews 1:3 describes Jesus and what he did to "purge our sins," but it is who did the purging, that makes the purging possible and effective, not the purging itself. There was only One who could be the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"; it was because Jesus was who he was that his atonement was "once for all" and perfectly satisfying to God the Father. I'd be careful, then, making what Jesus did the key to the salvation he obtained for us. Our salvation is ultimately located in him, not merely in what he has done.

 

[Robert Pate]

Hmmm... What you've written here makes me think of the following verse:

1 Peter 1:5 (KJV)
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

"Through faith"? Interesting, no? God's keeping power seems to work in tandem with a person's faith, according to Peter, the two combining to bring the born-again person to the "salvation ready to be revealed in the last time," which is, as Peter had explained in verse 4, the "inheritance, incorruptible, undefiled, and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven" for the believer.

What does the writer of Hebrews say?

Hebrews 11:6 (NASB)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.


And Paul? What does he think?

Romans 10:9-11 (NASB)
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed."

Salvation is a Person, Jesus Christ (1 John 5:11-12; John 1:4-12; John 14:6, etc.). In him, as you've pointed out, my salvation is located. But I access that salvation by way of faith. My faith in Jesus doesn't create my salvation; my faith in him doesn't make my salvation real, nor does it serve to earn my salvation; but my faith is nonetheless crucial to my being saved. If I don't "believe in my heart" that Christ is my Lord and Savior and confess that truth with my mouth, I cannot be saved.

It's like having a brain tumor. I can't do anything myself to remove the tumor; I can't operate on myself and get it out of my head. I need a neurosurgeon for that. But if I don't believe the oncologist who tells me I have a brain tumor and I refuse to see the brain surgeon and allow him to operate on my brain, I will die of the tumor. If I won't avail myself of the saving work of the brain surgeon, trusting in him to free me of my deadly affliction, I can't be saved. But having done so, having placed my faith in the tumor-eradicating power of the neurosurgeon, I can only lay upon an operating table and receive from him his life-saving work; I can't contribute in the slightest to what actually saves me. If the surgeon doesn't do his thing and remove my tumor, none of what I've done to arrive at the operating table will matter one bit.

In the same way, my faith in the Savior is necessary to being saved; without faith in him, the work of the Great Physician benefits me not at all. But my faith in-and-of-itself has no salvific power; it is only the object of my trust - Jesus, my Savior - who can free me of my sin-sickness. Nonetheless, my faith in him is crucial to my being saved.

John 3:14-18 (NASB)
14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.



Hmmm... Defeating sin, death and devil is not precisely the same as destroying them. There are many who are, right now, bound under these things very powerfully and destined to an eternity apart from God. Do you deny this? The Bible doesn't. Jesus himself said that there were only a few who found the Narrow Way (Matthew 7:13-14). In what way, then, exactly, is Christ victorious over sin, death and the devil?



Jesus is the potential Savior of all who by faith receive him as such; but as Scripture makes clear, the majority of people on this planet have not, and will not, put themselves under his Lordship and avail themselves of his atoning work for them at Calvary. It's worth pointing this out, it seems to me, lest someone mistake what you're saying for the false teaching of universalism.



Hebrews 1:3 describes Jesus and what he did to "purge our sins," but it is who did the purging, that makes the purging possible and effective, not the purging itself. There was only One who could be the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"; it was because Jesus was who he was that his atonement was "once for all" and perfectly satisfying to God the Father. I'd be careful, then, making what Jesus did the key to the salvation he obtained for us. Our salvation is ultimately located in him, not merely in what he has done.

No one will be saved this is not trusting in the work and the person of Jesus Christ for their salvation. There are many that profess to be Christians but reject the historical Gospel of Jesus Christ as their only means of salvation. Many believe that they have to participate in their salvation by works, laws and religion they are not Christians, they are counterfeits that are trying to save themselves by what they do or by what they have become. Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. Few there be that find it, because few there be that seek it. What most have found is religion.

 

[jaybo]

No one will be saved this is not trusting in the work and the person of Jesus Christ for their salvation. There are many that profess to be Christians but reject the historical Gospel of Jesus Christ as their only means of salvation. Many believe that they have to participate in their salvation by works, laws and religion they are not Christians, they are counterfeits that are trying to save themselves by what they do or by what they have become. Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. Few there be that find it, because few there be that seek it. What most have found is religion.

"There are many that profess to be Christians..." "Many believe..." "they are counterfeits..." "...save themselves by what they do or by what they have become"

Have you actually polled Christians, or are you simply judging them and making yourself seem superior?

 

[Robert Pate]

"There are many that profess to be Christians..." "Many believe..." "they are counterfeits..." "...save themselves by what they do or by what they have become"

Have you actually polled Christians, or are you simply judging them and making yourself seem superior?

John said, "Beloved, believe not every Spirit, but try the Spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" 1 John 4:1.

I am a Spirit inspector. I don't see much evidence of the Holy Spirit on these Forums.