The Woman and the 144K

[guysmith]

Most Christians agree that the woman (Revelation 12) represents Israel in the end times. And most Christians agree that the 144,000 (Revelation 7, 9, 14) are individuals which also represent Israel in the end times. Now, I know that this subject is a little more complicated than I am about to make it, yet, there is a certain simplicity about it that Christians miss.

Could it be that the woman and the 144k are one in the same. And if they are one and the same ( unless there are more than one Israel), one can interchange the 144K with the woman (in the parable of the woman and the man-child) and get a better understanding of the role of the 144K.

Revelation 12: 6And the woman /(the 144,000) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12: 14And to the woman /(the 144,000) were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So basically, the 144,000 will flee to “a place prepared of God†for the 1260 days of the GT.

Guy

 

[archangel_300]

I am one who disagrees that the woman in Rev 12 is the nation of Israel.
I think the woman mentioned there is the body of Christ as it transitions to the church age.

I also disagree that the 144K represents the nation of Israel in the end times.
I think the 144K again represents the entire complete body of Christ. I don't think the 144K has anything to do with the end times in a direct sense. But I get the impression that once the 144K are sealed with the deposit of the Holy Spirit which is a guaranteed mark of their inheritence the end can come. That's what I gather from reading the scriptures.

 

[Sinthesis]

The 144K are "the servants of our God" from the woman of Rev 12:6, but they are not from the woman of Rev 12:14.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Im under the impression that the woman is the church inside of Judea.When the abomination of desolation is placed ,the church in Judea will flee.But those Israelites who have been born in Israel and are not citizens of other countries as many in Judea are,will remain in Judea.The false prophet will be in Judea with the beast that is already there and the 144,000 shall not worship the beast nor his image ,nor will they recieve his mark in thier forehead or in thier right hand.They shall reign with Christ for 1000 years.

 

[Gathering]

Most Christians agree that the woman (Revelation 12) represents Israel in the end times. And most Christians agree that the 144,000 (Revelation 7, 9, 14) are individuals which also represent Israel in the end times. Now, I know that this subject is a little more complicated than I am about to make it, yet, there is a certain simplicity about it that Christians miss.

Could it be that the woman and the 144k are one in the same. And if they are one and the same ( unless there are more than one Israel), one can interchange the 144K with the woman (in the parable of the woman and the man-child) and get a better understanding of the role of the 144K.

Revelation 12: 6And the woman /(the 144,000) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12: 14And to the woman /(the 144,000) were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So basically, the 144,000 will flee to “a place prepared of God†for the 1260 days of the GT.

Guy

The woman in revelation 12 is "the linage of Zion". This includes non Hebrew people such as Enoch and Elijah the Tishbite. The 144,000 are the bride of Zion, The saints who will indeed lead the Lords sheep into the wilderness and feed and water them. The only problem is there will only be seventy two thousand until Christ returns and resurrects the other seventy two thousand back to life. At which time all one hundred and forty four thousand will mount up with wings as eagles and fly out and subdue the world.

 

[JudaicChristian]

That woman is the Bride, the Seven Thunders, AKA the Seven Lampsticks.

 

[JudaicChristian]

What we think is in our forehead, and what we do is by our right hand.

 

[JudaicChristian]

The 144,000 are selected from the great mutitude of the Elect.

 

[JudaicChristian]

The woman in revelation 12 is "the linage of Zion". This includes non Hebrew people such as Enoch and Elijah the Tishbite. The 144,000 are the bride of Zion, The saints who will indeed lead the Lords sheep into the wilderness and feed and water them. The only problem is there will only be seventy two thousand until Christ returns and resurrects the other seventy two thousand back to life. At which time all one hundred and forty four thousand will mount up with wings as eagles and fly out and subdue the world.

The Gentiles joined what ever tribe they wanted in Israel, and they also were counted as the Elect.

 

[Gathering]

The woman in revelation 12 is "the linage of Zion". This includes non Hebrew people such as Enoch and Elijah the Tishbite. The 144,000 are the bride of Zion, The saints who will indeed lead the Lords sheep into the wilderness and feed and water them. The only problem is there will only be seventy two thousand until Christ returns and resurrects the other seventy two thousand back to life. At which time all one hundred and forty four thousand will mount up with wings as eagles and fly out and subdue the world.

The Gentiles joined what ever tribe they wanted in Israel, and they also were counted as the Elect.

Not by God only those who follow The Lord in faith were ever elect to God.

 

[veteran]

Most Christians agree that the woman (Revelation 12) represents Israel in the end times. And most Christians agree that the 144,000 (Revelation 7, 9, 14) are individuals which also represent Israel in the end times. Now, I know that this subject is a little more complicated than I am about to make it, yet, there is a certain simplicity about it that Christians miss.

Could it be that the woman and the 144k are one in the same. And if they are one and the same ( unless there are more than one Israel), one can interchange the 144K with the woman (in the parable of the woman and the man-child) and get a better understanding of the role of the 144K.

What "parable of the woman and the man-child"?

Gen.37 first gave the symbols of the woman in Rev.12. It's about Israel, the 12 stars representing the 12 tribes. The Man-Child is our Lord Jesus Christ.

The 144,000 is only about the seed of Israel, since it's about 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.

The error many make about the 144,000 is in thinking it means all Jews, or even all orthodox non-believing Jews who refuse Christ. It's not, for PER GOD'S WORD (not man's), the only tribes who took the name Jew were the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. The rest of the tribes are not Jews, but are Israelites of the ten lost tribes who lost their heritage as Israel when God scattered them to their own separate captivity.

In Rev.7, they are 'sealed' with God's sealing. That links to the sealing in Rev.9, which relates to God's sealing of Ezekiel 9 of those who sigh because of the abominations going on. That's a major pointer that their sealing is about not being deceived. In connection with the woman of Rev.12 being protected, it has to do with their sealing in God's Truth to keep from being deceived.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Most Christians agree that the woman (Revelation 12) represents Israel in the end times. And most Christians agree that the 144,000 (Revelation 7, 9, 14) are individuals which also represent Israel in the end times. Now, I know that this subject is a little more complicated than I am about to make it, yet, there is a certain simplicity about it that Christians miss.

Could it be that the woman and the 144k are one in the same. And if they are one and the same ( unless there are more than one Israel), one can interchange the 144K with the woman (in the parable of the woman and the man-child) and get a better understanding of the role of the 144K.

Revelation 12: 6And the woman /(the 144,000) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12: 14And to the woman /(the 144,000) were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So basically, the 144,000 will flee to “a place prepared of God†for the 1260 days of the GT.

Guy

guy, i believe that the manchild is the 144,ooo and the woman is the rest of the church.

 

[JudaicChristian]

:crazy I think I will bale out of this one.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

For anyone who cares to think of something.
If the beast rules the world as some on this board like to think,then how does the woman flee from his face?It is written the earth will help the woman.Tell us then,how can the earth help the woman if the beast rules the entire earth?

LOL

 

[Sinthesis]

For anyone who cares to think of something.
If the beast rules the world as some on this board like to think,then how does the woman flee from his face?It is written the earth will help the woman.Tell us then,how can the earth help the woman if the beast rules the entire earth?

LOL

#'s16

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

For anyone who cares to think of something.
If the beast rules the world as some on this board like to think,then how does the woman flee from his face?It is written the earth will help the woman.Tell us then,how can the earth help the woman if the beast rules the entire earth?

LOL

well we see the example of this in the wilderness with the israelites.

The flood that satan sent after them was the rebellion of korah. Gods judgement was to have the earth open up and swallow those who followed korah.

So too the enemy will have those kidden amoung us who will go into the wilderness with us, their rebellion will come forth and we will see whom they are, and they will take with them all who are not rooted and grounded in the truth. God will then seperate them and destroy them from amoung us.

Just because the beast will govern the whole planet by the Lords perfect plan and design, does not mean that there is nowhere that the Lord can place His people and blind them from seeing us. He could hide us right in their city, or street or forrest or mountians etc,,, We see from our examples that Israel was completely surrounded by enemies on every side but the Lord kept them until they began leavened

Also keep in mind that those who always walked holy in the Lord HE preserved in beast kingdoms right in the midst of them. joseph daniel jeremiah. These lived with the beast and were often raised up by them they were preserved and because they were found faultless even by wicked, pagan rulers, they could only be persecuted when harlot people tricked the leaders to do so.- God can keep his people

 

[veteran]

For anyone who cares to think of something.
If the beast rules the world as some on this board like to think,then how does the woman flee from his face?It is written the earth will help the woman.Tell us then,how can the earth help the woman if the beast rules the entire earth?

LOL

well we see the example of this in the wilderness with the israelites.

The flood that satan sent after them was the rebellion of korah. Gods judgement was to have the earth open up and swallow those who followed korah.

So too the enemy will have those kidden amoung us who will go into the wilderness with us, their rebellion will come forth and we will see whom they are, and they will take with them all who are not rooted and grounded in the truth. God will then seperate them and destroy them from amoung us.

Just because the beast will govern the whole planet by the Lords perfect plan and design, does not mean that there is nowhere that the Lord can place His people and blind them from seeing us. He could hide us right in their city, or street or forrest or mountians etc,,, We see from our examples that Israel was completely surrounded by enemies on every side but the Lord kept them until they began leavened

Also keep in mind that those who always walked holy in the Lord HE preserved in beast kingdoms right in the midst of them. joseph daniel jeremiah. These lived with the beast and were often raised up by them they were preserved and because they were found faultless even by wicked, pagan rulers, they could only be persecuted when harlot people tricked the leaders to do so.- God can keep his people

The Revelation 12 idea of the woman being protected from the face of the serpent is a metaphor. We're supposed to catch that because the FLOOD the serpent sends after the woman comes out of his MOUTH.

But of course, if one has listened to the pre-trib fly away doctors out there, they would naturally want the deceived to take that metaphor literally.

So here's the test, is that "flood" out of the serpent's mouth a literal flood of real waters like the flood in Noah's days?

Rev 12:13-16
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
(KJV)

 

[Shilohsfoal]

For anyone who cares to think of something.
If the beast rules the world as some on this board like to think,then how does the woman flee from his face?It is written the earth will help the woman.Tell us then,how can the earth help the woman if the beast rules the entire earth?

LOL

well we see the example of this in the wilderness with the israelites.

The flood that satan sent after them was the rebellion of korah. Gods judgement was to have the earth open up and swallow those who followed korah.

So too the enemy will have those kidden amoung us who will go into the wilderness with us, their rebellion will come forth and we will see whom they are, and they will take with them all who are not rooted and grounded in the truth. God will then seperate them and destroy them from amoung us.

Just because the beast will govern the whole planet by the Lords perfect plan and design, does not mean that there is nowhere that the Lord can place His people and blind them from seeing us. He could hide us right in their city, or street or forrest or mountians etc,,, We see from our examples that Israel was completely surrounded by enemies on every side but the Lord kept them until they began leavened

Also keep in mind that those who always walked holy in the Lord HE preserved in beast kingdoms right in the midst of them. joseph daniel jeremiah. These lived with the beast and were often raised up by them they were preserved and because they were found faultless even by wicked, pagan rulers, they could only be persecuted when harlot people tricked the leaders to do so.- God can keep his people

You just will not admit the beast doesnt rule the world will you.
How you people can take a small city that sits on seven little hills and say it is the world is beyond me.
There is only one place in scripture the woman is told to flee from---Judea.Mt 24;16
In fact the beast is only mentioned being in one city and that is ---Jerusalem.Rev 11;7-8

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

For anyone who cares to think of something.
If the beast rules the world as some on this board like to think,then how does the woman flee from his face?It is written the earth will help the woman.Tell us then,how can the earth help the woman if the beast rules the entire earth?

LOL

well we see the example of this in the wilderness with the israelites.

The flood that satan sent after them was the rebellion of korah. Gods judgement was to have the earth open up and swallow those who followed korah.

So too the enemy will have those kidden amoung us who will go into the wilderness with us, their rebellion will come forth and we will see whom they are, and they will take with them all who are not rooted and grounded in the truth. God will then seperate them and destroy them from amoung us.

Just because the beast will govern the whole planet by the Lords perfect plan and design, does not mean that there is nowhere that the Lord can place His people and blind them from seeing us. He could hide us right in their city, or street or forrest or mountians etc,,, We see from our examples that Israel was completely surrounded by enemies on every side but the Lord kept them until they began leavened

Also keep in mind that those who always walked holy in the Lord HE preserved in beast kingdoms right in the midst of them. joseph daniel jeremiah. These lived with the beast and were often raised up by them they were preserved and because they were found faultless even by wicked, pagan rulers, they could only be persecuted when harlot people tricked the leaders to do so.- God can keep his people

The Revelation 12 idea of the woman being protected from the face of the serpent is a metaphor. We're supposed to catch that because the FLOOD the serpent sends after the woman comes out of his MOUTH.

But of course, if one has listened to the pre-trib fly away doctors out there, they would naturally want the deceived to take that metaphor literally.

So here's the test, is that "flood" out of the serpent's mouth a literal flood of real waters like the flood in Noah's days?

Rev 12:13-16
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
(KJV)

Didnt I just say that vet? Was the rebellion a literal flood of water? of course not, it was a flood of words out of the mouth of the serpent through korah etc... soo too in the end. was anyone suggesting that it was just water like literal water?





shi- no i wont admit the beast doesnt rule the earth(by Gods authority) because revelation clearly shows it will.

 

[veteran]

Didnt I just say that vet? Was the rebellion a literal flood of water? of course not, it was a flood of words out of the mouth of the serpent through korah etc... soo too in the end. was anyone suggesting that it was just water like literal water?

Well, you kind of did, and kind of didn't.

You stated:
"well we see the example of this in the wilderness with the israelites.

The flood that satan sent after them was the rebellion of korah. Gods judgement was to have the earth open up and swallow those who followed korah.

So too the enemy will have those kidden amoung us who will go into the wilderness with us, their rebellion will come forth and we will see whom they are, and they will take with them all who are not rooted and grounded in the truth. God will then seperate them and destroy them from amoung us."

God's Word is literal. He simply uses metaphors or parables as a figure, to point to something literal.

In the case of the "wilderness" as an object in the metaphor, it's not being used as a literal physical locale, like some tucked away area on earth to hide in. Since the flood comes out the serpent's mouth, it's about lies of deception. The wilderness is used to represent a condition, not a literal place on earth. It's about not being deceived.

Your last part did show that a servant of Christ can be anywhere physically and be under God's protection away from deception. But your first part doesn't appear to say that, because the spiritually deceived cannot go into that "wilderness" condition or state of mind, for they are unaware and deceived by the flood out of the serpent's mouth. The wilderness metaphor is only for those whom God seals with His seal.