Bible Study The Word of God.

[Nathan]

woops....too many back buttons....

 

[Nathan]

you do realise that ot/nt was never there till marcion the heretic.

the jews of them had the same faith, otherwise jesus couldnt say for if ye knew moses then you would have known me as he wrote of me.

you should read what the ot says and dig more.

I do know. Scary that he was the first to suggest a 'Bible' of sorts.

The Jews and Gentiles both read from the same Scriptures. Then, they had given them the letters.

Act 15:19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,

Act 15:20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

Act 15:21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues."

 

[Jake]

I believe it is messages given to us by people of God. It is a description of what the Scriptures are talking about.

To me the NT means a view into the OT with the purpose fulfilled in Christ.

The Spirit teaches me truth that accompanies Salvation, grounded in the Scriptures(OT).

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

The NT teaches me this fact. The OT is the basis for what we must interpret the NT on. But what we do is use the NT for the basis of what we interpret the OT on.

I believe that if the separation of the two does not exist, then we can get them 'mixed' up. (no pun intended)

What about the fact the Bible has withstood countless attacks, is not contradictory, its perfect unity with the OT. Surely these points hold some weight, in addition to the internal validities already pointed out.

 

[whitney]

commonly quoted one , paul says this and isaih

1 cor 2:9

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

is 64:4
4For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

and paul is quoting isaiah in the first corinthian letters.

shall i continue theres a ton of these, especially in eschatology!

Thanks. I see what you mean now, yes there must be tons.

 

[whitney]

When God says "the word" or "His Word", of course the NT was not available yet, but God knew there would be a NT. Sometimes people forget He knows beginning to the end.
He speaks that of which has not happened yet as though it has already happened.
For what my 2 cents is worth.

Exactly!

Romans 4:17 as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were.

 

[Cornelius]

OK, well I have slept well and I see that there has been a lot of viewpoints on this so far.

Here is final proof that the New Testament and the Old both are the Word of God. God will never never "build His house" on top of anything else than His Word. This verse also shoots the traditions of religions like the Catholic church out of the water.

Eph 2:19 So then ye are no more strangers and sojourners, but ye are fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
Eph 2:20 being built upon the foundation of the apostles (New Testament) and prophets, (Old Testament) Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone; (He is holding both Old and New together)
Eph 2:21 in whom each several building, fitly framed together, groweth into a holy temple in the Lord;
Eph 2:22 in whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.

So God is building His habitation on the foundation of the Old and New Testaments and Jesus is the chief cornerstone.

Then the apostles also confirms that the message (The Gospel )they brought to the people, was the Word of God too.1Th 2:13 And for this cause we also thank God without ceasing, that, when ye received from us the word of the message, even the word of God,(not in the original) ye accepted it not as the word of men, but, as it is in truth, the word of God, which also worketh in you that believe.

So its clear that God wrote both the Old and the New testaments. He is building His habitation on top of it. There is no argument about this.

I pray we can go back to study the wonderful aspects of the Word, because that is the intentions of this thread

 

[Nathan]

What about the fact the Bible has withstood countless attacks, is not contradictory, its perfect unity with the OT. Surely these points hold some weight, in addition to the internal validities already pointed out.

Here is the point I am trying to understand. Where does the NT claim the title "word of God"?

I believe the Bible we have is COMPLETELY inspired by God and infallible. But we "add" to it when we say things that simply are not there. Does it matter? I think so because it takes away from the purity of each individual part.

 

[Nathan]

OK, well I have slept well and I see that there has been a lot of viewpoints on this so far.

Here is final proof that the New Testament and the Old both are the Word of God. God will never never "build His house" on top of anything else than His Word. This verse also shoots the traditions of religions like the Catholic church out of the water.

Eph 2:19 So then ye are no more strangers and sojourners, but ye are fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
Eph 2:20 being built upon the foundation of the apostles (New Testament) and prophets, (Old Testament) Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone; (He is holding both Old and New together)
Eph 2:21 in whom each several building, fitly framed together, groweth into a holy temple in the Lord;
Eph 2:22 in whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.

So God is building His habitation on the foundation of the Old and New Testaments and Jesus is the chief cornerstone.

Then the apostles also confirms that the message (The Gospel )they brought to the people, was the Word of God too.1Th 2:13 And for this cause we also thank God without ceasing, that, when ye received from us the word of the message, even the word of God,(not in the original) ye accepted it not as the word of men, but, as it is in truth, the word of God, which also worketh in you that believe.

So its clear that God wrote both the Old and the New testaments. He is building His habitation on top of it. There is no argument about this.

I pray we can go back to study the wonderful aspects of the Word, because that is the intentions of this thread

While I appreciate your very detailed thoughts, you are simply adding too what the Bible says. Ephesians does not include the words you put in there. Yes, you may claim that for yourself if it makes you feel better, but the fact is that you are adding to the already established 'words' that are written down.

The apostles taught and studied from the OT. Read the book of Acts. It talks countless times about the word, and even the "word of God". In fact, before all other books were written we have an account of them speaking the "word of God" in Acts 4. Acts may have been written after some of the other books of the NT, but this give us direct understanding that they considered the Scriptures as the word of God. This takes no private 'interpretation', it speaks for itself. It needs no 'proof'.

Not ONCE, do you even come close to the NT writers claiming the title "word of God". There is a reason for it. If this is not understood then things can be taken out of context when studying the Bible. And if you take things out of context here where does it stop?

You obviously have a little following with this. I am not going to disrupt your 'thread' anymore. I just thought you might have some understanding that I have not gained that attributes the title "word of God" to the NT.

The reason why we must keep this in context is because the OT; Moses, the Psalms, the teachings, and the Prophets ARE the word of God. The NT is the inspired magnification of the OT.

Its like looking at an object. The OT is the "object", the NT is only the magnifying glass. The magnifying glass 'looks pretty', but on its own can do nothing. The 'object' has all the information contained in itself, but needs the magnifying glass to understand what it says. When you combine the two you have great contextual errors come about. They must be known for what they are.

Does that mean you have to have the 'whole' object to gain an understanding with the magnifying glass? No. And you do not even need the 'whole' magnifying glass to gain an understanding of part of the OT. They fit perfectly together because it was made that way...there is no doubt. But in order to understand them you must hold the magnifying glass away from the object to get the best view.

 

[Elijah674]

Here is the point I am trying to understand. Where does the NT claim the title "word of God"?

I believe the Bible we have is COMPLETELY inspired by God and infallible. But we "add" to it when we say things that simply are not there. Does it matter? I think so because it takes away from the purity of each individual part.

2 Peter 1:20-21 comes very close, huh? 'but Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost'. Not quite yet??

OK, lets try John 1:14? 'And the WORD, was made flesh, and dwelt among us, ...'
And did not the Christ speak the WORD OF GOD?? And... 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD.' + another??

Christ HAS SPOKEN! '. It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, [BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.]
And wher does man find these Words??? Well Christ did say.. 'It is WRITTEN'! So where did He find it is written????????

Deut. 8:3 was after God quit speaking directly to us'ins!;) But Christ seems to BELIEVE that His (God) mouthpiece was His SPOKEN WORDS it seems??

'And He humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; [that He might make thee know] that man doth not live by bread only, [but by every Word proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.]'

But there are God the Father's Words spoken directly to us before He was asked to not do so. Deut. 5:22. And up to this time, God spoke directly to His own many times. And we see in verse 27-31 that from here on He indeed uses Holy Men to pen & speak, but not His Words?? And even though you are technically correct perhaps as you see it? I think that I will believe otherwise.

I tend to try to forget the person of the pen, and regard the Words as being the Word of God. It is not an 'IF' for me with the Bible being the Word of God, [if] that were the case one might question the whole book being Inspired?? That is the way that 'i' see it at least.

And where you are coming from is a place that I was stood, huh?;) And then I ran into verses such as Rom. 4:17's last part of the verse! And here we see God who created mankind to begin with, doing something that He could not do through His Inspired penned Words???? Here is what Inspirition says: '... [EVEN GOD, ... AND CALLETH THOSE THINGS WHICH BE NOT AS THOUGH THEY WERE.]'

Some considerations: John 17:17, 'Sanctify them through thy Word: Thy Word is Truth.'

John 14:24, 'He that loveth Me not keepeth not My sayings: and the [Word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.'

John 5:24, '.. He that heareth My Word, and believeth on Him that sent Me..'

& 8:31, '... If ye continue in My Word, then are ye My disciples indeed;..'

OK: In Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 we find these Inspired Words. So lets start from Adam & find out what was [before him] using the Lords Word! Can one 'think' or are we not to take the Godhead at their Word? And can one just BELIEVE GOD???

Using the same Word of God, the earth was VOID! Can we understand that it will be so again? (by believing the Eccl. verses) Surely! Jer. 4:22-27 documents this fact! And Rev. 20:1-3 tel's us the same Truth for how long the earth will be like this, as before it was created. + who only were here & will be here again. Until he (satan) is loosed by the wicked being resurected. That to is the WORD OF GOD!

--Elijah

 

[Scotth1960]

Jesus and the Apostles also referred to the Word as " as it is written"

1Co 2:9 but as it is written, Things which eye saw not, and ear heard not, And which entered not into the heart of man, Whatsoever things God prepared for them that love him.

Mat 2:5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written through the prophet,

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, Again it is written, Thou shalt not make trial of the Lord thy God.

Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Mat 11:10 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Who shall prepare thy way before thee.

Mat 21:13 and he saith unto them, It is written, My house shall be called a house of prayer: but ye make it a den of robbers.

Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth, even as it is written of him: but woe unto that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had not been born.

Mat 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended in me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Mar 7:6 And he said unto them, Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, But their heart is far from me.

Mar 9:13 But I say unto you, that Elijah is come, and they have also done unto him whatsoever they would, even as it is written of him.


There are many more examples

Friend, The prophecy regarding the spirit of Elijah was fulfilled typologically in the ministry of St. John the Baptist. As for a future Elijah coming, many Christians believe this, although it is not at all certain whether all hold this view. Enoch and Elijah never died, and as it is appointed unto all once to die (Heb), these men must come back to earth to be martyrs during the future time of Jacob's trouble, tribulation, when these Hebrew Prophets witness TO JESUS CHRIST. In ISRAEL. In Erie PA Scott H.

 

[whitney]

Friend, The prophecy regarding the spirit of Elijah was fulfilled typologically in the ministry of St. John the Baptist. As for a future Elijah coming, many Christians believe this, although it is not at all certain whether all hold this view. Enoch and Elijah never died, and as it is appointed unto all once to die (Heb), these men must come back to earth to be martyrs during the future time of Jacob's trouble, tribulation, when these Hebrew Prophets witness TO JESUS CHRIST. In ISRAEL. In Erie PA Scott H.

SCOTT....the thread is about the Bible being the Word of God. Hence, your post doesn't fit.

 

[Elijah674]

Friend, The prophecy regarding the spirit of Elijah was fulfilled typologically in the ministry of St. John the Baptist. As for a future Elijah coming, many Christians believe this, although it is not at all certain whether all hold this view. Enoch and Elijah never died, and as it is appointed unto all once to die (Heb), these men must come back to earth to be martyrs during the future time of Jacob's trouble, tribulation, when these Hebrew Prophets witness TO JESUS CHRIST. In ISRAEL. In Erie PA Scott H.

John was not Elijah, but he was 'in his message' the spirit of Elijah. Christ said IF you can handle that!? (in Bottom/line)

And surely Mal. 4 will be & is being repeated in the same spirit if one can believe it?

Have you got this in Matt. 10:20? And Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 with the SHAKING OR GREAT FALLING AWAY! of 2 Thess. 2:3 & Matt. 25's [[TODAY'S]] 'MIDNIGHT CRY' REPEAT! + Rev. 18:4's WARNINGS!!! (to and against the ones of Rev. 17:1-5 huh!)

And HEY, those ARE the Warning Words of the Words of the 'SPIRIT' of Elijah.

--Eijah

 

[Scotth1960]

SCOTT....the thread is about the Bible being the Word

of God. Hence, your post doesn't fit.

Whitney, I was making the same point. I was responding to Elijah674's post #89.

Can you understand anything he says? He references many verses from the Word

of God, the Bible. Yes? But can you make sense of anything Elijah674 says?

I CAN"T. He is incomprehensible! The Word of God, the Bible, should be, and is

in most places, comprehensible. The Bible is the Word of God. But the Bible

is not God. It is God speaking in the written words of men. The Father Son

and Holy Spirit are God. The Bible is the testimony in writing to these three.

In Erie Scott

 

[Elijah674]

Whitney, I was making the same point. I was responding to Elijah674's post #89.

Can you understand anything he says? He references many verses from the Word

of God, the Bible. Yes? But can you make sense of anything Elijah674 says?

I CAN"T. He is incomprehensible! The Word of God, the Bible, should be, and is

in most places, comprehensible. The Bible is the Word of God. But the Bible

is not God. It is God speaking in the written words of men. The Father Son

and Holy Spirit are God. The Bible is the testimony in writing to these three.

In Erie Scott

You talk! But where is the WORD OF GOD seen????

 

[Scotth1960]

John was not Elijah, but he was 'in his message' the spirit of Elijah. Christ said IF you can handle that!? (in Bottom/line)

And surely Mal. 4 will be & is being repeated in the same spirit if one can believe it?

Have you got this in Matt. 10:20? And Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 with the SHAKING OR GREAT FALLING AWAY! of 2 Thess. 2:3 & Matt. 25's [[TODAY'S]] 'MIDNIGHT CRY' REPEAT! + Rev. 18:4's WARNINGS!!! (to and against the ones of Rev. 17:1-5 huh!)

And HEY, those ARE the Warning Words of the Words of the 'SPIRIT' of Elijah.

--Eijah

Dear Elijah674, Now you are BEGINNING TO MAKE SENSE TO ME. John the Baptist

was not Elijah, but had the spirit of Elijah as a type for his Gospel ministry. His

role was to say, "Behold the Lamb of God (JESUS) Who taketh away the sin(s) of

the world." Amen. In Erie PA Scott

 

[whitney]

Whitney, I was making the same point. I was responding to Elijah674's post #89.

Can you understand anything he says? He references many verses from the Word

of God, the Bible. Yes? But can you make sense of anything Elijah674 says?

I CAN"T. He is incomprehensible! The Word of God, the Bible, should be, and is

in most places, comprehensible. The Bible is the Word of God. But the Bible

is not God. It is God speaking in the written words of men. The Father Son

and Holy Spirit are God. The Bible is the testimony in writing to these three.

In Erie Scott

Yes, Elijah is talking about the Word of God in post #89. LOL

 

[Elijah674]

THE WORD OF GOD finds some still on the skim milk in Heb. 5, regardless of what they BOAST!

And THE WORD OF GOD in 2 Peter 3:16-17 documents that it is not only Paul's pen that is not understood, but that 'The unlearned and Unstable wrest, as they do also other Scriptiure, ..'

--Elijah

 

[Scotth1960]

THE WORD OF GOD finds some still on the skim milk in Heb. 5, regardless of what they BOAST!

And THE WORD OF GOD in 2 Peter 3:16-17 documents that it is not only Paul's pen that is not understood, but that 'The unlearned and Unstable wrest, as they do also other Scriptiure, ..'

--Elijah

Dear Elijah674, It is safe to say that Daniel and Revelation are perhaps the 2

most misunderstood books in all of the whole Bible. It would be better not to

read Revelation than to mis-interpret it, and the Book of Revelation itself gives a

clear warning against not mis-interpreting the "words of this prophecy"

(Revelation). Not all of the Bible is easy to understand. Much remains unclear,

as in Heb. 6:6, for example. This should not be given a Cavinistic bias; Calvinism

is not taught in all of the Scriptures, but God's Sovereignty, God's Mercy, God's

Goodness and Holiness, are taught throughout the whole word of God, the Bible.

In Erie Scott

 

[Cornelius]

Here is the "first mention" of the Word. Its interesting that the first mention sometimes shows up as a kind of definition of the subject. A short summery if you like. In this case it is true too. The Word is indeed our shield and is our exceeding great reward !

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of Jehovah came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

 

[Cornelius]

In this same chapter, the secret key to the Gospel is given. Believing God .......not just believing IN God.....is the key to righteousness.

Gen 15:4 And, behold, the word of Jehovah came unto him, saying, This man shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and number the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Gen 15:6 And he believed in Jehovah; and he reckoned it to him for righteousness.