The word Rapture is in the Bible

[RandyK]

Yes, please send it to me. My email is edmishoe@yahoo.com

Well, I was going to give you an abbreviated version here. My notes are quite long and sprawling, including quotes and page numbers from all 3 authors.

I'm wishing to put here, on the forum, some initial findings on each of the authors. It'll just have to be divided up into a number of posts. After all, this concerns a public discussion, and not isolated exchanges between you and me.

In fact, I'll start a new thread to accomodate it.

 

[Indentured Servant]

Well, the word harpazō occurs a bunch of other places in the NT. In a lot of them a rapture doesn't fit.

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
Were people trying to rapture the kingdom of God?

Mat 13:19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. . .
Does Satan rapture the word out of a person's heart?

John 6:15 Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him king
I don't think these people were trying to rapture Jesus.

John 10:12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.
I don't think the wolf was rapturing the sheep.

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.

Act 8:39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, . . .

2Cor 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven.

2Cor 12:4 how he was caught up into Paradise . . .

Jude 1:23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

Rev 12:5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

I love this collection of 'harpazo' verses.

Place the word "take," taken," or "took," in each of these, and it will make sense for these verses.

It is only considered "take by force" when the Greek 'harpazo' is used twice in one statement. (Not uncommon to emphasize the meaning by repeating a word)

Most people believe each has a different meaning, but that occurs when it is translated/interpreted to fit a specific narrative or doctrinal position.

It's really just a simple verb, even though some use it as a noun.

 

[Little Owl]

The Latin Vulgate references "rapture".
1 Thessalonians 4:17 - deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus.

1 Thessalonians 4:1 (VUL)

1 Thessalonicenses (1 Thessalonians) 4:17 VUL - deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[RandyK]

The Latin Vulgate references "rapture".
1 Thessalonians 4:17 - deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus.

1 Thessalonians 4:1 (VUL)

1 Thessalonicenses (1 Thessalonians) 4:17 VUL - deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

www.blueletterbible.org

I think "Rapture" is more of a descriptive term than the name of an event. Where in the Bible do you see someone refer to a "Rapture?"

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I love this collection of 'harpazo' verses.

Place the word "take," taken," or "took," in each of these, and it will make sense for these verses.

It is only considered "take by force" when the Greek 'harpazo' is used twice in one statement. (Not uncommon to emphasize the meaning by repeating a word)

Most people believe each has a different meaning, but that occurs when it is translated/interpreted to fit a specific narrative or doctrinal position.

It's really just a simple verb, even though some use it as a noun.

1 Thess. 4:16-18 and 1 Cor. 15:50-53 are parellel passages on future resurrection, there's no secret "snatching" of the church into heaven. It is prophesied: "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11) It doesn't say we will be taken up in like manner to meet Lord Jesus, quite the opposite, Lord Jesus will descend from heaven to EARTH in like manner to meet us.

 

[RandyK]

1 Thess. 4:16-18 and 1 Cor. 15:50-53 are parellel passages on future resurrection, there's no secret "snatching" of the church into heaven. It is prophesied: "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11) It doesn't say we will be taken up in like manner to meet Lord Jesus, quite the opposite, Lord Jesus will descend from heaven to EARTH in like manner to meet us.

Regardless, it will apparently be in "the twinkling of an eye." So *going to heaven* is a mere technical statement stating where we are getting our new bodies from, namely from *heaven.* It will be so quick that yes, it will seem as if we are arriving rather than leaving, or so I speculate....

 

[Indentured Servant]

1 Thess. 4:16-18 and 1 Cor. 15:50-53 are parellel passages on future resurrection, there's no secret "snatching" of the church into heaven. It is prophesied: "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11) It doesn't say we will be taken up in like manner to meet Lord Jesus, quite the opposite, Lord Jesus will descend from heaven to EARTH in like manner to meet us.

Did you mean to send this to someone else? I'm not sure how this relates to what I had written... You seem be expressing a counterpoint to something that someone else had posted.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Did you mean to send this to someone else? I'm not sure how this relates to what I had written... You seem be expressing a counterpoint to something that someone else had posted.

NO, I'm telling you that whatever you believe "rapture" means, it's not gonna be a "puff" disappearing act, as most dispensationalist preachers have taught. They say Enoch and Elijah were "raptured" in that way, but there's just wild speculation. Even if that's true for Enoch and Elijah, that doesn't mean it's applicable to us all.

 

[Indentured Servant]

NO, I'm telling you that whatever you believe "rapture" means, it's not gonna be a "puff" disappearing act, as most dispensationalist preachers have taught. They say Enoch and Elijah were "raptured" in that way, but there's just wild speculation. Even if that's true for Enoch and Elijah, that doesn't mean it's applicable to us all.

I've not stated, nor even hinted, about what I believe. I merely offered the root meaning of a word that's found in Scripture.

Are you saying I'm wrong regardless of what I believe? How would you know I'm wrong unless you first know what I believe?

I don't submit to manmade doctrines or interpretations. I don't listen to preachers, theologians, popular authors, or anyone who has to speculate using human logic or best guesses.

Please do not assume to know what I believe; neither make statements that assume I'm wrong about something I haven't even discussed.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I've not stated, nor even hinted, about what I believe. I merely offered the root meaning of a word that's found in Scripture.

Are you saying I'm wrong regardless of what I believe? How would you know I'm wrong unless you first know what I believe?

I don't submit to manmade doctrines or interpretations. I don't listen to preachers, theologians, popular authors, or anyone who has to speculate using human logic or best guesses.

Please do not assume to know what I believe; neither make statements that assume I'm wrong about something I haven't even discussed.

Why are you being so defensive and irritated? What the word means is one thing, what people make of it is another. Yes, harpazo means “taken by force”, like “snatched”, by WHO will be snatched? At what time? In what manner? For what reason? How is this relevant? How is this not escapism? The previous verse says the dead will rise first, how do you know you’ll live long enough to be “taken”, instead of joining the dead in the grave? No dictionary can answer these questions, your own belief has to fill it out.

 

[Damon52]

You have all heard that the word Rapture does not appear in the Bible. Nothing could be further from the truth. Let me show you the actual words Paul wrote in 1 Thess 4:17:

ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.18 Ὥστε παρακαλεῖτε ἀλλήλους ἐν τοῖς λόγοις τούτοις.

Do you see the word Rapture? It is right there is plain view. Let me do some translation of the words Paul wrote:

ἔπειτα Then ἡμεῖς we οἱ ζῶντες who are alive οἱ περιλειπόμενοι who are left
ἁρπαγησόμεθα. will be raptured...

There is the word Rapture used by Paul.
What most critics mean when they say the word 'rapture' does not appear in the Bible, they really mean the word rapture is not translated in any English translation. Don't be fooled. Don't let them say Rapture does not appear in the 'Bible.' Remind them that Paul wrote the word raptured in 1 Thess 4:17. The Koine Greek word for rapture is ἁρπαγησόμεθα. So, the word Rapture is found in all Greek manuscripts of 1 Thess. This is not nit picking, this is just letting the critic use a translation, like the KJV or NIV, in stead of the BIBLE. It is important to communicate this. Remember, the critic is relying on a Translation of the Bible, not the Bible itself. All serious scholars use the Greek Bible, not a Translation into another language when doing intense study.

You not only know now that Rapture appears in the Bible, in fact, you have seen it.

Read 1 Corinthians 15. It will tell you all about God's rapture plans.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You have all heard that the word Rapture does not appear in the Bible. Nothing could be further from the truth. Let me show you the actual words Paul wrote in 1 Thess 4:17:

The real issue is not about whether the word "rapture" is in the bible or not, but rather its relevance to us. 1 Thess. 4:17 only applies to those who are "still alive" at the time right before the Antichrist is revealed, right? And according to most dispensationalist teaching, there will be various global catastrophe that inevitably leads to this global totalitarian regime under the reign of the Antichrist, so what's the assurance that we'll live long enough to that day? If we don't, we'll join the dead in the grave, then 4:16 applies, and when this "rapture" comes to pass, it'll actually be the resurrection - after all, the dead will rise first.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Read 1 Corinthians 15. It will tell you all about God's rapture plans.

"Those who are still alive" are the tribes of the earth that will mourn.

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matt. 24:30)

 

[RandyK]

Matt 24.29 Immediately after the distress of those days
‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

I mean no offence to my brothers who are Dispensational and Pretribulational, because that is what I once was, as well, and that is the position of my church. But I have to advance what I believe--not what others believe.

So respectfully, I do not see an imminent Rapture here, ie belief that Christ could come "at any time." I do not see Jesus calling upon us to expect him imminently, that we should continually expect that he can come at any moment.

Rather, I see here Jesus put our gaze on a future event that will end the present age, when he will come again to gather up, through his angels, his people who have been waiting for him and living for him. We are called to look for him, and in this way curb our ungodly ways and determine to live godly lives in expectation that he will judge the whole world by his righteousness.

Our anticipation of his coming, therefore, determines how we live. And this is to be the kind of expectation we are to have, even as we await his coming to terminate the present ungodly age.

It is said that in the above reference there is no evidence of a "Rapture" event. Well, that may be because the Bible does not refer to Christ's Coming, to gather his saints, as a "Rapture." Rather, it is here referred to as a gathering by angels at the sound of a trumpet.

On the other hand, Paul describes this event as a "Rapture," not calling the event that name, but describing it as such. When we are gathered, we do not rise of our own accord, but are rather, "seized" by angels, to deliver us by the powers of heaven, and not by our own strength or ability.

So we may call it a "Rapture" if we like because that is how it is so described. But the event is called, biblically, as a gathering of saints, when the Son of Man returns from heaven with the clouds.

And where does this teaching come from? It comes from Daniel 7, where the Son of Man is said to have conferred with God his Father in heaven, receiving the mandate that will destroy the Antichrist and establish God's Kingdom on earth. In that place we are told that the Son of Man will come to earth, defeat the Little Horn, and deliver the saints from his abuses. In my view this is not an imminent event to be expected, but rather, the ultimate result of our waiting for it.

So how are we to relate this "gathering of the saints" to what Paul described as a "Rapture" in 1 Thes 4? At the time Jesus said this he was still under the Law and addressing only Israel. The "saints" he addressed at that time were Jewish believers, and not the international Church, though later this lesson can be applied to us all.

So Jesus was describing the future history of Israel, as only a remnant would be saved, and the many would be scattered across the earth in the Jewish Diaspora. Israel's national salvation would take place only after the return of the Son of Man.

And so, Jesus described this ultimate salvation of the nation addressing the Jewish saints of his time, while they were sitll under the Law. And now, we can apply this to all Christians, which is precisely what Paul did in 1 Thess 4.

When the Son of Man returns from heaven, we are gathered up to heaven by the angels of heaven. And we do so because we must do what Christ did when he said, "Do not hold me because I must return to my Father in heaven."

And so, we must, in order to be fully glorified, go to heaven to where the Son of Man is, to obtain from him our glorified bodies. In this way we may return with him in glory to establish his glorious Kingdom on the earth. And I believe this will happen immediately, in a moment of time.

So the mechanics of our leaving and returning with him is not the significant thing. What matters is that we be glorified with the Son of Man in order to enter into his rule together with him, so that the Kingdom may be established among mortal men on the earth.