The Wrath of God

[jasonc]

agua, the context of the that chapter was the nazarite vow. that did have an atonement but I agree with adam Clarke on that. if you think that law could return. what if the temple were to be built now and operated as it once did under the mosaic law fully? would then tell my jewish kin that they need to go there to atone or the blood? of course they can atone without even going there. but that is for another thread.

 

[agua.]

Yes, as they always were. It began when God drew the first blood and covered Adam and Eve's "nakedness" their sin with the skins of the sacrifice. But I don't see that this method will ever return on this earth. If it does it would be denying the now shed blood of Christ.
That is what the OT church would have understood as their covering of their 'nakedness', the shed blood. That is why I see Ezekiel as a type of the Book of Revelation that was given to the NT church. Not just those last chapters but pretty much the whole book.
Ezekiel was not told to seal the revelations in that book, as Daniel was. So Ezekiel would have become a part of the regular readings in the synagogue. Unfortunately, I think, the church pretty much shut up Revelation, which God told John not to do. I think because of this there is occasion for so many fantastical interpretations.
I believe that Revelation is literally the revelation of our Lord, how He came, what He did, His church, how we as His body are to live and resist the beast, satan. It tells of the growing of His Kingdom, the victory of the church in Christ over the evil of this world, and the coming manifestation of Him and the New Jerusalem. Some past, some now, some future still.

This is very interesting Deb but I don't see how it fits with the resuscitation of the Jew when Yahweh will take away their sin etc which I thought will begin in the trib and continue into the MR. There hasn't been a Temple since 70 AD and I can understand why the sacrificial ceremonies may be re-instituted as a commemorative tool for believer and for revelation for those who don't understand the blood requirement and connection to the Cross. Where does Israel fit in with your premise ? It's taking me some time to fully see how the many things concerning Israel ( including the physical land ) in the MR passages can be allegorical. Do you think they are ?

that has been discussed and genitically its not even that strong. deborah13 post the evidence. orally that was the way they did that. the problem remains you have said to any jew. he doesn't need jesus to be saved. the mosaic covenant will return. that is the problem.

it will revert to the Hebrew being the only person who can enter into the presence of god. the goy unless they become a Hebrew will not be able to see the Lord in person, and even then only a levite could. isn't the cross so much better as its so simple? believe and be saved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't have to go Jerusalem. I can met with god right here.

It seems there will be a concentration again upon Israel during the MR and the goy will be also able to participate.

Zec 8:20-23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities: (21) And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also. (22) Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD. (23) Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Do you think this combined worship of Jew and Gentile will be during the MR ?

agua, the context of the that chapter was the nazarite vow. that did have an atonement but I agree with adam Clarke on that. if you think that law could return. what if the temple were to be built now and operated as it once did under the mosaic law fully? would then tell my jewish kin that they need to go there to atone or the blood? of course they can atone without even going there. but that is for another thread.

Jason I know you and Deb think the return of blood sacrifice belittles the Cross and I understand and accept your reasoning. Maybe if we can concentrate on the meaning of the passages which we both accept are MR related we can find a reasonable explanation for them. Personally I can see the hpw blood sacrifice during the MR, alongside Jesus presence, would be a great commemorative and educational tool so maybe we can leave our personal opinions rest for now.

I'm not sure what the implications would be if a Temple was built now by the Jew but since they observe the Sabbath, follow the dietary laws, circumcise etc I would guess they would sacrifice. It does seem that the passages about the MR Temple rites don't mirror the Mosaic practices.

 

[jasonc]

This is very interesting Deb but I don't see how it fits with the resuscitation of the Jew when Yahweh will take away their sin etc which I thought will begin in the trib and continue into the MR. There hasn't been a Temple since 70 AD and I can understand why the sacrificial ceremonies may be re-instituted as a commemorative tool for believer and for revelation for those who don't understand the blood requirement and connection to the Cross. Where does Israel fit in with your premise ? It's taking me some time to fully see how the many things concerning Israel ( including the physical land ) in the MR passages can be allegorical. Do you think they are ?



It seems there will be a concentration again upon Israel during the MR and the goy will be also able to participate.

Zec 8:20-23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities: (21) And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also. (22) Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD. (23) Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Do you think this combined worship of Jew and Gentile will be during the MR ?



Jason I know you and Deb think the return of blood sacrifice belittles the Cross and I understand and accept your reasoning. Maybe if we can concentrate on the meaning of the passages which we both accept are MR related we can find a reasonable explanation for them. Personally I can see the hpw blood sacrifice during the MR, alongside Jesus presence, would be a great commemorative and educational tool so maybe we can leave our personal opinions rest for now.

I'm not sure what the implications would be if a Temple was built now by the Jew but since they observe the Sabbath, follow the dietary laws, circumcise etc I would guess they would sacrifice. It does seem that the passages about the MR Temple rites don't mirror the Mosaic practices.

its not, read the whole thing again. its a conditional promise of restoration of isreal if they put there whoredoms which are even listed. does the modern jew worship molech? no he doesn't the modern levite, isn't. the problem you face is that the temple implies the tabernacle. its in in there fully.

you would have a case if you show me that jesus words to the samatarian woman that the temple was to be rebuilt and man could worship there once again. jesus didn't say that. I don't like building doctrines on that statement of silence.

does modern isreal have a king?

And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.

whom was the house of isreal then?

and this is from chapter 44, which of the modern cohens kept the torah like that? none, because no jew could keep the law like that.its implied that prior the first diaspora some of the priests didn't fall into that sin and kept themselves.

And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,

7 In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.

8 And ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of my charge in my sanctuary for yourselves.

9 Thus saith the Lord God; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.

11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord God, and they shall bear their iniquity.

now if you want to address zechariah there. tell me how you a goy can ever be HOLY enough to enter the temple? no you cant
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And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,

7 In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.

8 And ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of my charge in my sanctuary for yourselves.

9 Thus saith the Lord God; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.

11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord God, and they shall bear their iniquity.

the first verse is from chapter 43. im sorry, the first chialism mention the idea of yours at all. just that jesus would reign and the temple rebuilt and not much more. it could be that way since martyr was talking to a jew called trypho. but he didn't mention it.

 

[Deborah13]

It seems there will be a concentration again upon Israel during the MR and the goy will be also able to participate.

Zec 8:20-23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities: (21) And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also. (22) Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD. (23) Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Do you think this combined worship of Jew and Gentile will be during the MR ?

I believe it has been going on forever but I believe we are beginning to see a major working of the Holy Spirit among the Jews. I pray for it. There is a Kararite man I have burden for, I'm hoping that some of the anxious gossip I have heard about him is true.

Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
Isa 55:4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
Isa 55:5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.

These Apostles are the Jews that I believe Zech. is talking about, that the Gentiles shall grab the skirt of a Jew. As Jason said, like the woman with the issue of blood held to the skirt of Jesus.
Act 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Act 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Jason I know you and Deb think the return of blood sacrifice belittles the Cross and I understand and accept your reasoning. Maybe if we can concentrate on the meaning of the passages which we both accept are MR related we can find a reasonable explanation for them. Personally I can see the hpw blood sacrifice during the MR, alongside Jesus presence, would be a great commemorative and educational tool so maybe we can leave our personal opinions rest for now.

I'm not sure what the implications would be if a Temple was built now by the Jew but since they observe the Sabbath, follow the dietary laws, circumcise etc I would guess they would sacrifice. It does seem that the passages about the MR Temple rites don't mirror the Mosaic practices.

 

[agua.]

Thanks guys and gals this will make an interesting Easter weekend study for me. I'd like to know if you ( Jason and Deb ) agree that Isaiah 11 & 65, Ezekiel 40-45 , and Zechariah 14 are about the MR ( or include the MR as well as other fulfillment ). I'm trying to work out which parts of these prophecies may be allegorical and I find it difficult to think that passages about the physical land of Israel are symbolic ( the split of the Mount of Olives, the diversion of waters, the healing and vitality of the land, the dead sea sustaining life etc ) but I can imagine they may dualistically represent spiritual matters as well.

 

[jasonc]

im amil btw. I wasn't originally. I wish I could see the mr as it does state that period begins and ends but the doctrines of the mr just don't hold up.

 

[agua.]

im amil btw. I wasn't originally. I wish I could see the mr as it does state that period begins and ends but the doctrines of the mr just don't hold up.

What does amil believe about the binding of satan during the MR ?

 

[jasonc]

What does amil believe about the binding of satan during the MR ?

some say its done by the church, others like I think Clarke says simply they don't know.

but I ask will man have free will? will god stop man from hating? sinning. satan merely sets the poison before us to get us addicted. we take it. man still does that to each other without satan. satan presented the temptation to eve, she took it. adam choose it as well, knowingly the punishment.

 

[agua.]

some say its done by the church, others like I think Clarke says simply they don't know.

but I ask will man have free will? will god stop man from hating? sinning. satan merely sets the poison before us to get us addicted. we take it. man still does that to each other without satan. satan presented the temptation to eve, she took it. adam choose it as well, knowingly the punishment.

Yes but without the active participation from satan the teaching from Jesus will be less hindered. After the MR we can see satan easily gathers followers again so it seems many people simply don't want to follow Yahweh. Are you thinking Adam & Eve would have taken the fruit if satan wasn't there ?

 

[jasonc]

Yes but without the active participation from satan the teaching from Jesus will be less hindered. After the MR we can see satan easily gathers followers again so it seems many people simply don't want to follow Yahweh. Are you thinking Adam & Eve would have taken the fruit if satan wasn't there ?

yes, they would have, otherwise why would God tell them not to eat it?

does it make sense to you that if satan is bound that man wouldn't sin. so why didn't god bind him on that day? he could have.yet he just binds him during that period only? all those people lied too? and in hell could have been avoided.

 

[Deborah13]

Thanks guys and gals this will make an interesting Easter weekend study for me. I'd like to know if you ( Jason and Deb ) agree that Isaiah 11 & 65, Ezekiel 40-45 , and Zechariah 14 are about the MR ( or include the MR as well as other fulfillment ). I'm trying to work out which parts of these prophecies may be allegorical and I find it difficult to think that passages about the physical land of Israel are symbolic ( the split of the Mount of Olives, the diversion of waters, the healing and vitality of the land, the dead sea sustaining life etc ) but I can imagine they may dualistically represent spiritual matters as well.

I don't like lumping all the scripture together because I think there are verses referring to different things. The Kingdom of God now, Second Coming, New Jerusalem.
I don't believe in the MR as a furturist does, at the same time I can't say I am Amil either. This is all fairly new to me too. I only knew futurism until last spring.
The more I study the more I see the OT tying logically into the NT. It's way more scriptural than saying scorpions are tanks firing missiles. It seems to me that God used symbols that they understood. So if these were a weapon He may have said something like a sword that throw stones or breathes fire. Because He said not to seal up this book, He had to have meant for them to understand it even then.

Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Paul quotes Isaiah 11:10 when teaching that Jesus is the Messiah and that He will draw the Gentiles to Him.
So is this verse, past, present, or future? Or all three? I see all three.

It's like the one about the Gentile will take hold the hem of a Jew. I see this as being the Gentiles coming through the teachings of the Apostles. Is that past, present, or future? I see it as all three but mostly past. Physically while the Apostles preached, now through their writings.

:wink When one studies the old and the new putting aside previous teachings it is a great adventure in God's word. It's like mining gems with a little pick and a headlamp.

 

[jasonc]

I don't like lumping all the scripture together because I think there are verses referring to different things. The Kingdom of God now, Second Coming, New Jerusalem.
I don't believe in the MR as a furturist does, at the same time I can't say I am Amil either. This is all fairly new to me too. I only knew futurism until last spring.
The more I study the more I see the OT tying logically into the NT. It's way more scriptural than saying scorpions are tanks firing missiles. It seems to me that God used symbols that they understood. So if these were a weapon He may have said something like a sword that throw stones or breathes fire. Because He said not to seal up this book, He had to have meant for them to understand it even then.

Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Paul quotes Isaiah 11:10 when teaching that Jesus is the Messiah and that He will draw the Gentiles to Him.
So is this verse, past, present, or future? Or all three? I see all three.

It's like the one about the Gentile will take hold the hem of a Jew. I see this as being the Gentiles coming through the teachings of the Apostles. Is that past, present, or future? I see it as all three but mostly past. Physically while the Apostles preached, now through their writings.

:wink When one studies the old and the new putting aside previous teachings it is a great adventure in God's word. It's like mining gems with a little pick and a headlamp.

"like" though I amil because theres no logical view of the chialism that doesn't have some idea of the law in it.

 

[agua.]

yes, they would have, otherwise why would God tell them not to eat it?

does it make sense to you that if satan is bound that man wouldn't sin. so why didn't god bind him on that day? he could have.yet he just binds him during that period only? all those people lied too? and in hell could have been avoided.

I'm not following your reasoning here. Imo satan was the impetus for human sin and he wasn't bound immediately after the fall because justice needed to be satisfied for all creation to see. We ( and the Angels ) needed to see the consequences of sin and why Yahweh is correct in His rulings. During the MR sin will still be present imo but the only Authority will be Jesus ( who will rule with a rod of iron etc ) and His ruling body as opposed to the governments we have today.

 

[jasonc]

I'm not following your reasoning here. Imo satan was the impetus for human sin and he wasn't bound immediately after the fall because justice needed to be satisfied for all creation to see. We ( and the Angels ) needed to see the consequences of sin and why Yahweh is correct in His rulings. During the MR sin will still be present imo but the only Authority will be Jesus ( who will rule with a rod of iron etc ) and His ruling body as opposed to the governments we have today.

yet jesus fails. the multitude of saints then follow satan. the problem for you is that god and magog are found in book zeke and john. both had to be known to the jewish audience.

figure that out, problem solved. we don't know. if we take Jerusalem literaly in that context. in war one kills one enemies where ever they are. so that city wouldn't be the only city of the saints to be attacked. every saint would.

theres free will and theres sin. when jesus returns. where there be a limited atonement of man? the sinner isn't as evil? if you noticed in the bible. satan isn't getting called out as much as man for his evil.

 

[agua.]

I don't like lumping all the scripture together because I think there are verses referring to different things. The Kingdom of God now, Second Coming, New Jerusalem.
I don't believe in the MR as a furturist does, at the same time I can't say I am Amil either. This is all fairly new to me too. I only knew futurism until last spring.
The more I study the more I see the OT tying logically into the NT. It's way more scriptural than saying scorpions are tanks firing missiles. It seems to me that God used symbols that they understood. So if these were a weapon He may have said something like a sword that throw stones or breathes fire. Because He said not to seal up this book, He had to have meant for them to understand it even then.

Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Paul quotes Isaiah 11:10 when teaching that Jesus is the Messiah and that He will draw the Gentiles to Him.
So is this verse, past, present, or future? Or all three? I see all three.

It's like the one about the Gentile will take hold the hem of a Jew. I see this as being the Gentiles coming through the teachings of the Apostles. Is that past, present, or future? I see it as all three but mostly past. Physically while the Apostles preached, now through their writings.

:wink When one studies the old and the new putting aside previous teachings it is a great adventure in God's word. It's like mining gems with a little pick and a headlamp.

When one studies the old and the new putting aside previous teachings it is a great adventure in God's word. It's like mining gems with a little pick and a headlamp

Sure Deb and I don't disagree entirely but do you accept the physical return of Jesus to Jerusalem and the physical changes the land of Israel will go through and the miracles that will occur. eg

Isa 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

This event must be future imo.

I can't see any way of spiritualizing an event which is directly compared to the crossing of the Red Sea so how do you decide which events are literal and which are spiritual ?

 

[agua.]

yet jesus fails. the multitude of saints then follow satan. the problem for you is that god and magog are found in book zeke and john. both had to be known to the jewish audience.

figure that out, problem solved. we don't know. if we take Jerusalem literaly in that context. in war one kills one enemies where ever they are. so that city wouldn't be the only city of the saints to be attacked. every saint would.

theres free will and theres sin. when jesus returns. where there be a limited atonement of man? the sinner isn't as evil? if you noticed in the bible. satan isn't getting called out as much as man for his evil.

This is why the MR scriptures are very centered upon Israel. I don't get your thinking about satan's part in the fall of man it seems you think he was unimportant.

 

[jasonc]

ok so where are the philistines? oh that would be the arabs but arabs are mentioned in the bible. what about moab? Jordan? edom? Jordan
Assyria, that is Iraq. so when will that literally happen?

as I have said before and ironically for two days the "cranmans' have been discussing our oral history of coming to America. we are Ukraine jews and one of us was a german pow. he wrote a book one for the family and the public version as well about his time in that camp. very interesting. also discussed was how it was hidden at times to hide who we were from the government of the us. or that we were illegal aliens

Some clarifications about the Cranman family myths and some important context. ALL of the Cranman 8 except Arthur were born out of the US. If anyone was born in Canada, it was Leona and Harry. The rest were born in East Europe, Poland, etc. They came to the US in the early 1900's. It was imperative for them to establish citizenship as quickly as possible as they clearly weren't legal immigrants, and in fact were fugitives. They sought legal help within the Jewish community to establish a credible narrative and obtained their documents. The first terrifying challenge to their safety was the Palmer Raids, which everybody should Google. Marshall told me about it. These raids struck terror among all East Europeans living in the US. The second moment of terror that I know of was in the 50's. Grandma Dora had a sister who stayed in Russia because she was crippled and would have held the others back. She wrote a letter to Dora in Russian, which Dora no longer read. The date of this event corresponded in time with the Army McCarthy witch hunt of communists in the US. The Cranmans were so terrified I was sworn to secrecy as a 7 year old or such. An elderly teacher/rabbi at the BB Jacob Synagogue translated the letter for them. It told of family who left to go to Israel and gave us their names. Many parts of the letter were redacted and unreadable. There was contact with the Israelis for a while and then we lost touch. I don't know their names. I think all of them, except perhaps Arthur and Harry, worried about deportation for much of their adult lives. In part, it is an example of a common experience for immigrants trying to blend in, and in part, it has some roots in honest fear over events in US history. It's also their own brand of mishagoss and it went to the grave with just about all of them. My mother Leona and Aunt Annie argued with one another in the ambulance taking Leona to the hospital for a heart attack because Annie told the EMT mother's "wrong" age.

so which nation are those today and how can you take that literally?

 

[jasonc]

This is why the MR scriptures are very centered upon Israel. I don't get your thinking about satan's part in the fall of man it seems you think he was unimportant.

he tempted but he doesn make you sin. does he tell you what to post? do he think for YOU? no we have free will. the cross made satan that weak, now is satan cast out. not in the future. he is cast out. NOW before the cross.

we choose sin on our own. satan more like the drug dealer. a part of the problem but not all of it. by removing a drug from drug addict does he change? no, he just is sober until he has hit again. removing satan merely removes the dealer of sin but not sin. that is the problem. the sin is the drug.

 

[jasonc]

besides the nation of isreal is to be the light of the world per that doctrine. jesus ALONE claimed that. in the Chassidic view and biblical view pre Christ. the torah was that light. jesus is greater then the torah.

besides answer me where the assyrians are. and well those are Christians. so its kind hard to say they would attack and hold isreal.

 

[agua.]

ok so where are the philistines? oh that would be the arabs but arabs are mentioned in the bible. what about moab? Jordan? edom? Jordan
Assyria, that is Iraq. so when will that literally happen?

as I have said before and ironically for two days the "cranmans' have been discussing our oral history of coming to America. we are Ukraine jews and one of us was a german pow. he wrote a book one for the family and the public version as well about his time in that camp. very interesting. also discussed was how it was hidden at times to hide who we were from the government of the us. or that we were illegal aliens


so which nation are those today and how can you take that literally?

I don't know the answers to that I'll need to look into it.

Do you believe Isaiah 11:16 is literal and if so when does/did it occur?

Isa 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

he tempted but he doesn make you sin. does he tell you what to post? do he think for YOU? no we have free will. the cross made satan that weak, now is satan cast out. not in the future. he is cast out. NOW before the cross.

we choose sin on our own. satan more like the drug dealer. a part of the problem but not all of it. by removing a drug from drug addict does he change? no, he just is sober until he has hit again. removing satan merely removes the dealer of sin but not sin. that is the problem. the sin is the drug.

Yeah that's a good analogy and if the drug dealer is removed access to drugs is limited right ? Especially if Jesus is watching and ruling "with a rod of iron".

besides the nation of isreal is to be the light of the world per that doctrine. jesus ALONE claimed that. in the Chassidic view and biblical view pre Christ. the torah was that light. jesus is greater then the torah.

besides answer me where the assyrians are. and well those are Christians. so its kind hard to say they would attack and hold isreal.

Jesus is the King of Israel I'm not sure why Israel won't be the centre of His rule during the MR. What better way to show God's faithfulness which He also shows to the gentile. ( If we believe not He remains faithful etc ) I'm guessing that after the times of the gentiles since 70 AD Jesus returns to remove ungodliness from Jacob as He promised. I'm fine with Him doing this from Jerusalem while redeeming my Jewish Brothers.