There is no such place as " Hell " according to Holy Scripture... Part 1

[Bayway Joe]

One of the most fundamental beliefs in Christendom is of a place called " Hell." I am very glad to be able to refer you and everyone to Holy Scripture who are interested in why there is no such place as Hell. I will say however, that this explanation is much more readily understood by the common man than the churchgoer.
Christendom and the world without have their own ideas about Hell but my hope is that those who read this post will be prudent in the Scriptures and do their homework first since this is a volition subject to many.

Plato, the ancient Greek philosopher, is given historical credit for concocting " Hell." Plato believed that the wicked in this life seem to get away unpunished for their wickedness while the ' good ' man is indeed punished for doing good since ' no good deed goes unpunished.'
Plato believed in and also taught man is immortal... you have to be immortal to live again past the grave. Plato believed in and taught Re-incarnation as well. Sadly enough, these 3 elements exist in Christendom and are widely taught as Bible truth.
Upon prudent examination of Holy Scripture on this subject anyone who fears God will conclude there is no such place as " Hell "... a place of burning fire and torments to which the un-believer finds himself in upon death.
Let's look at the most common display of un-belief in God's Word in the passage of Ro.6:23a. " The wages of sin death," Ro.6:23a KJV. Christendom today denies this by preaching " No ! ... the wages of sin is eternal life in hell. " This then means the one preaching an eternal, burning hell exists for the un-redeemed is echoing Plato.

" The wages of sin death," not eternal life in a burning hell where you never really die. Hell is taught in Christendom as a place where the wicked have eternal life. Re-incarnation accompanies the idea of being sent to a Hell simply because in the grave the body returns to dust from which it was made. A person must Re-incarnate into some form or other to appear alive again after death in a burning Hell.

While this is a very big subject to completely illustrate the reasons why there is no such place as a Hell, and since I usually am scolded by Moderators for making big posts, allow me to offer this post as a Part 1 and with attendant posts if I'm so allowed, to fully conclude this subject in a Part 2 or even a Part 3.

For now, let me direct the reader to Lk.16:19-31. Jesus is NOT teaching Re-incarnation between verses 22 to 24. Neither is Jesus teaching the dead and buried have conversations with the living. Jesus' tactics in this parable is to ' rub the noses of the Pharisees ' in their own belief system to expose their folly of a burning hell, see Acts 23. To be continued in Part 2...

 

[Free]

" The wages of sin death," not eternal life in a burning hell where you never really die. Hell is taught in Christendom as a place where the wicked have eternal life. Re-incarnation accompanies the idea of being sent to a Hell simply because in the grave the body returns to dust from which it was made. A person must Re-incarnate into some form or other to appear alive again after death in a burning Hell.

Are you saying here that people will not go to hell because reincarnation isn't true?

 

[Eugene]

. . . you have to be immortal to live again past the grave.

Sounds reasonable to me if we can believe the following scripture.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[Butch5]

One of the most fundamental beliefs in Christendom is of a place called " Hell." I am very glad to be able to refer you and everyone to Holy Scripture who are interested in why there is no such place as Hell. I will say however, that this explanation is much more readily understood by the common man than the churchgoer.
Christendom and the world without have their own ideas about Hell but my hope is that those who read this post will be prudent in the Scriptures and do their homework first since this is a volition subject to many.

Plato, the ancient Greek philosopher, is given historical credit for concocting " Hell." Plato believed that the wicked in this life seem to get away unpunished for their wickedness while the ' good ' man is indeed punished for doing good since ' no good deed goes unpunished.'
Plato believed in and also taught man is immortal... you have to be immortal to live again past the grave. Plato believed in and taught Re-incarnation as well. Sadly enough, these 3 elements exist in Christendom and are widely taught as Bible truth.
Upon prudent examination of Holy Scripture on this subject anyone who fears God will conclude there is no such place as " Hell "... a place of burning fire and torments to which the un-believer finds himself in upon death.
Let's look at the most common display of un-belief in God's Word in the passage of Ro.6:23a. " The wages of sin death," Ro.6:23a KJV. Christendom today denies this by preaching " No ! ... the wages of sin is eternal life in hell. " This then means the one preaching an eternal, burning hell exists for the un-redeemed is echoing Plato.

" The wages of sin death," not eternal life in a burning hell where you never really die. Hell is taught in Christendom as a place where the wicked have eternal life. Re-incarnation accompanies the idea of being sent to a Hell simply because in the grave the body returns to dust from which it was made. A person must Re-incarnate into some form or other to appear alive again after death in a burning Hell.

While this is a very big subject to completely illustrate the reasons why there is no such place as a Hell, and since I usually am scolded by Moderators for making big posts, allow me to offer this post as a Part 1 and with attendant posts if I'm so allowed, to fully conclude this subject in a Part 2 or even a Part 3.

For now, let me direct the reader to Lk.16:19-31. Jesus is NOT teaching Re-incarnation between verses 22 to 24. Neither is Jesus teaching the dead and buried have conversations with the living. Jesus' tactics in this parable is to ' rub the noses of the Pharisees ' in their own belief system to expose their folly of a burning hell, see Acts 23. To be continued in Part 2...

I agree with much of what you said. However, the re-incarnation part not so much.

 

[Mustard Socks]

We'll all find out one day.

 

[Jim Parker]

Hell is taught in Christendom as a place where the wicked have eternal life. Re-incarnation accompanies the idea of being sent to a Hell simply because in the grave the body returns to dust from which it was made. A person must Re-incarnate into some form or other to appear alive again after death in a burning Hell.

People in hell do not have eternal life; they have eternal death.
Resurrection and reincarnation are two entirely (and very) different concepts. Before you comment on what you have mistaken as reincarnation in scripture, please al least consult Wikipedia and get a clue as to the difference.

All you have demonstrated is that you have no idea what the Church (which you have mistaken for "Christendom") teaches about eternal life, hell, and resurrection based on scripture.

Please take the time to find out what you are talking about prior to pontificating about mysteries beyond your ken.

Also, please check out the Terms of Service.
6) Anti-Christian content will be considered a hostile act. (ToS 2.1)
This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity (or declare it false) and the basic tenets of our Faith is against the purpose of this site.

Thank you.


iakov the fool


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. Thou shalt not snivel! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[Jim Parker]

We'll all find out one day.

You can find out today.
It's in your operators manual.

 

[JohnDB]

You can find out today.
It's in your operators manual.

The
Basic
Instructions
Before
Leaving
Earth...

You mean that book?

 

[dirtfarmer]

One of the most fundamental beliefs in Christendom is of a place called " Hell." I am very glad to be able to refer you and everyone to Holy Scripture who are interested in why there is no such place as Hell. I will say however, that this explanation is much more readily understood by the common man than the churchgoer.
Christendom and the world without have their own ideas about Hell but my hope is that those who read this post will be prudent in the Scriptures and do their homework first since this is a volition subject to many.

Plato, the ancient Greek philosopher, is given historical credit for concocting " Hell." Plato believed that the wicked in this life seem to get away unpunished for their wickedness while the ' good ' man is indeed punished for doing good since ' no good deed goes unpunished.'
Plato believed in and also taught man is immortal... you have to be immortal to live again past the grave. Plato believed in and taught Re-incarnation as well. Sadly enough, these 3 elements exist in Christendom and are widely taught as Bible truth.
Upon prudent examination of Holy Scripture on this subject anyone who fears God will conclude there is no such place as " Hell "... a place of burning fire and torments to which the un-believer finds himself in upon death.
Let's look at the most common display of un-belief in God's Word in the passage of Ro.6:23a. " The wages of sin death," Ro.6:23a KJV. Christendom today denies this by preaching " No ! ... the wages of sin is eternal life in hell. " This then means the one preaching an eternal, burning hell exists for the un-redeemed is echoing Plato.

" The wages of sin death," not eternal life in a burning hell where you never really die. Hell is taught in Christendom as a place where the wicked have eternal life. Re-incarnation accompanies the idea of being sent to a Hell simply because in the grave the body returns to dust from which it was made. A person must Re-incarnate into some form or other to appear alive again after death in a burning Hell.

While this is a very big subject to completely illustrate the reasons why there is no such place as a Hell, and since I usually am scolded by Moderators for making big posts, allow me to offer this post as a Part 1 and with attendant posts if I'm so allowed, to fully conclude this subject in a Part 2 or even a Part 3.

For now, let me direct the reader to Lk.16:19-31. Jesus is NOT teaching Re-incarnation between verses 22 to 24. Neither is Jesus teaching the dead and buried have conversations with the living. Jesus' tactics in this parable is to ' rub the noses of the Pharisees ' in their own belief system to expose their folly of a burning hell, see Acts 23. To be continued in Part 2...

hello Bayway Joe, dirtfarmer here

Hell, hades or gehenna, the Greek words, is a real place but is not the final destination of those that reject God's gospel. In Revelation 20:14, we read. "death and hell were cast into the lake of fire", so the lake of fire is the final abode of the unsaved. You are correct in stating that Jesus is not teaching "re-incarnation" but he does teach a resurrection from the dead.

Luke 16:19-31 is not a parable, There is never a parable with a named person in it. I do not believe that Jesus has to "rub any one's nose in their belief system, but he uses truth to dispel darkness.

I agree with Jim Parker: " People in hell do not have eternal life, but eternal death" in that they are eternally separated from the presence of God's love.

 

[Jim Parker]

The
Basic
Instructions
Before
Leaving
Earth...

You mean that book?

Yeah! That's it.
Just follow the directions for the correct operation of life.
INtentional deviation from instructions may have irreparable eternal consequences.

 

[Bick]

How could any one love a God who is the creator of humanity, yet brings the vast majority into being only to live for a relatively short period of time, and then suffer conscious eternal torment?
I can't!
And, praise God, the inspired Scriptures when properly translated decry such a thing.
For example: Christ's sacrifice on the cross is for all mankind: John 1:29 "...John seeth Jesus...and saith, BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD, WHICH TAKETHAWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD." KJV, etc.
John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
John 12:47 ..."I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
1Tim 2:3,4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
1 Tim 4:10 "...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."
1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
These are just a few that tell me that God's grace is greater than all our sins.

 

[Free]

How could any one love a God who is the creator of humanity, yet brings the vast majority into being only to live for a relatively short period of time, and then suffer conscious eternal torment?
I can't!
And, praise God, the inspired Scriptures when properly translated decry such a thing.
For example: Christ's sacrifice on the cross is for all mankind: John 1:29 "...John seeth Jesus...and saith, BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD, WHICH TAKETHAWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD." KJV, etc.
John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
John 12:47 ..."I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
1Tim 2:3,4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
1 Tim 4:10 "...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."
1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
These are just a few that tell me that God's grace is greater than all our sins.

If you think the Bible teaches that everyone will eventually saved, it doesn't. And don't promote that on these forums as it is a violation of the TOS. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that not everyone will be saved.

 

[th1b.taylor]

How could any one love a God who is the creator of humanity, yet brings the vast majority into being only to live for a relatively short period of time, and then suffer conscious eternal torment?
I can't!
And, praise God, the inspired Scriptures when properly translated decry such a thing.
For example: Christ's sacrifice on the cross is for all mankind: John 1:29 "...John seeth Jesus...and saith, BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD, WHICH TAKETHAWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD." KJV, etc.
John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
John 12:47 ..."I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
1Tim 2:3,4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
1 Tim 4:10 "...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."
1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
These are just a few that tell me that God's grace is greater than all our sins.

First, I have not welcomed you, welcome to CF Bick. Now, a good sounding case can be built for anything one considers to be good if they are selective in their selection of the Scriptures. But when you jerk scripture, any scripture, out of context, you have violated scripture in an almost Carnal manor. There is a rule in Hermeneutics that, simply must be adhered to, tightly, and it reads somewhat like; No scrioture, passage of scripture, nor collection of scriptures can ever be fully understood except the light of all other scripture shining on it.

In your post, perhaps without realizing it, you have called Jesus a liar. As important as Heaven is, Jesus taught more on Hell than He did on Heaven.

Now, if you and will look at the Bible Jesus taught from, the first 39 books of the Christian Bible, and open it to chapter 3 of the book of Genesis you'll find the answer to what Jesus came to restore, Fellowship with God Almighty. And the reason for Hell, as most people mistaken call the Lake of Fire is to rid the world of Satan and his demons. Hell is the place the soul resides until the Great White Throne Judgement that, immediately follows the rapture of the Lost Man. God's perfect will (2Pet. 3:9) is that not a single person should, ever, perish but that every one of us would repent and would live in heaven with Him.

 

[WIP]

How could any one love a God who is the creator of humanity, yet brings the vast majority into being only to live for a relatively short period of time, and then suffer conscious eternal torment?
I can't!
And, praise God, the inspired Scriptures when properly translated decry such a thing.
For example: Christ's sacrifice on the cross is for all mankind: John 1:29 "...John seeth Jesus...and saith, BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD, WHICH TAKETHAWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD." KJV, etc.
John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
John 12:47 ..."I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
1Tim 2:3,4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
1 Tim 4:10 "...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."
1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
These are just a few that tell me that God's grace is greater than all our sins.

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."
Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV

God doesn't deny any of us the opportunity to come to Him for He desires everyone to be saved. We choose to deny Him.

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
1 Timothy 2:3-4 NKJV

 

[JohnDB]

God is omnipotent.

And even if we humans were just a failed experiment to God...God loses nothing.

God is omnipotent though... Meaning that God is perfectly efficient with his use of power. No unintended consequences or "spillover effect". Meaning that where some may see a waste of human life... But life exists not at God's acquiesce but at his active support.

So where eternal death is viewed as punishment...It's actually a relief to the heathen who would have no skill set to live in Heaven.

 

[Jim Parker]

" The wages of sin death," not eternal life in a burning hell where you never really die.

That is referring to physical death. Not eternal death. (AKA: the second death)

Re-incarnation accompanies the idea of being sent to a Hell simply because in the grave the body returns to dust from which it was made. A person must Re-incarnate into some form or other to appear alive again after death in a burning Hell.

Reincarnation has absolutely nothing in common with the resurrection.
It would benefit you to do a bit of research on what you're talking about before posting such gross misconceptions.

 

[Bick]

If you think the Bible teaches that everyone will eventually saved, it doesn't. And don't promote that on these forums as it is a violation of the TOS. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that not everyone will be saved.

Could you help me then. What do the verses mean thst I quoted, if not as they read?

 

[Bick]

First, I have not welcomed you, welcome to CF Bick. N ow, a good sounding case can be built for anything one considers to e good if they are selective in their selection of the Scriptures. But when you jerk scripture, any scripture, out of context, you have violated scripture in an almost Carnal manor. There is a rule in Hermeneutics that, simply must be adhered to, tightly, and it reads somewhat like; No scrioture, passage of scripture, nor collection of scriptures can ever be fully understood except the light of all other scripture shining on it.

In your post, perhaps without realizing it, you have called Jesus a liar. As important as Heaven is, Jesus taught more on Hell than He did on Heaven.

Now, if you and will look at the Bible Jesus taught from, the first 39 books of the Christian Bible, and open it to chapter 3 of the book of Genesis you'll find the answer to what Jesus came to restore, Fellowship with God Almighty. And the reason for Hell, as most people mistaken call the Lake of Fire is to rid the world of Satan and his demons. Hell is the place the soul resides until the Great White Throne Judgement that, immediately follows the rapture of the Lost Man. God's perfect will (2Pet. 3:9) is that not a single person should, ever, perish but that every one of us would repent and would live in heaven with Him.

Thanks taylor. I agree that all scriptures concerning a particular subject
should be studied. For instance take "soul." By studying all the verses, particularly
where "nephesh" is used, one will find that "soul" could be said to be the consciousnrss, the feelings, the desires, produced by the breath of life vitalizing
the body. Starting with Gen. 2:7 "...the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living
soul."
NOTICE: A separate soul was not joined to a prepared body. Man BECAME a living soul when the breath of the spirit of life was bresthed into his nostrils.

 

[Silmarien]

How could any one love a God who is the creator of humanity, yet brings the vast majority into being only to live for a relatively short period of time, and then suffer conscious eternal torment?
I can't!
And, praise God, the inspired Scriptures when properly translated decry such a thing.
For example: Christ's sacrifice on the cross is for all mankind: John 1:29 "...John seeth Jesus...and saith, BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD, WHICH TAKETHAWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD." KJV, etc.
John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
John 12:47 ..."I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."
1Tim 2:3,4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
1 Tim 4:10 "...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."
1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
These are just a few that tell me that God's grace is greater than all our sins.

I like universalism, but I think God's worth worshipping even if it's not true. I subscribe to the Greek Orthodox view that heaven and hell aren't separate places but conditions--if you've rejected God, you'll experience His presence as all-consuming fire. However you want to conceptualize it, though, I think damnation is something we do to ourselves.

My argument isn't scriptural but testimonial: I'm a former anti-theist. I got a serious warning when I was casting off the so-called chains of religion about a decade ago--an angel in a dream telling me not to turn away. I decided that even if it wasn't my subconscious, I didn't care. I'd prefer hell to eternity with a God who demanded constant adulation and punished anyone who refused. Willful rejection, unrepentent rebellion. I'm in a very different place now, but I really did myself in with that and softening my heart is taking time. Really rejecting a religion is more than not believing it--it's not letting yourself believe it. It's a viscerally negative reaction to the very idea that it might be true. Not sure if all non-believers are like that or if I was just special, but I didn't realize just how closed off I still was until I decided I wanted to come back. So I think that rather than being God's will, damnation could easily be a matter of having to face a truth you're not ready to accept and continuing to reject it. I hope universalism is true, but it may well be that we're incapable of learning in death what we didn't learn in life, and I wouldn't blame that on God.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I like universalism, but I think God's worth worshipping even if it's not true. I subscribe to the Greek Orthodox view that heaven and hell aren't separate places but conditions--if you've rejected God, you'll experience His presence as all-consuming fire. However you want to conceptualize it, though, I think damnation is something we do to ourselves.

My argument isn't scriptural but testimonial: I'm a former anti-theist. I got a serious warning when I was casting off the so-called chains of religion about a decade ago--an angel in a dream telling me not to turn away. I decided that even if it wasn't my subconscious, I didn't care. I'd prefer hell to eternity with a God who demanded constant adulation and punished anyone who refused. Willful rejection, unrepentent rebellion. I'm in a very different place now, but I really did myself in with that and softening my heart is taking time. Really rejecting a religion is more than not believing it--it's not letting yourself believe it. It's a viscerally negative reaction to the very idea that it might be true. Not sure if all non-believers are like that or if I was just special, but I didn't realize just how closed off I still was until I decided I wanted to come back. So I think that rather than being God's will, damnation could easily be a matter of having to face a truth you're not ready to accept and continuing to reject it. I hope universalism is true, but it may well be that we're incapable of learning in death what we didn't learn in life, and I wouldn't blame that on God.

Let's look at this because, as illustrated in Proverbs 16:9, God only abide with the decision f the Sinner for where he wants toi spend eternity. This may or may not be a metaphor but scripture teaches us the rewards Jesus hands out at the Bema Seat Judgement will vary with the extent thaqt we work vfor the Kingdon on earth. Now we know salvation ius not a one size fits all , as I oft have heard it preached and I will suggest to you that Hell, as most that are seated in the Church mistakenly call The Lake of Fire, a.k.a. the Abyss b ut Hell will not be structured with a one size ft all either. What I mean is the old man at the Faekmers Market that always gives your children A free Apple but refused Jese and his mercy will not suffer the same punishment that the Prostitute that died of Aids without repenting. (Isaiah 61:8, Romans 2:4,b1Pet 1:17, and a lot more)