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There is the WORD, then there is OPINION...do YOU know the difference???

reba said:
maybe a few years back but not now... the most obvious example is the coming new ice age of the 70s to... global warming ....to climate change... The science text book of about 1956 -7 5th grade had a picture of human foot prints and dino foot prints preserved in the same mud .
As any other group of humans there is good and bad in the ranks.. the science world has very little credibility in my simple mind...
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Science has done very good at explaining the facts behind much of the phenomena it uncovers such as human footprints found beside those of dinosaurs; however, I would suggest you speak with a fellow believer who believes in an old earth and evolution on such matters. The same information from such a person would likely be very differently received than if I were to provide it to you.
 
Science in many areas has lost credibility . Some of what science has done is wonderful .. Science bends as the 'facts' change.. as in my old text book. Believing science takes faith..
 
reba said:
Science in many areas has lost credibility . Some of what science has done is wonderful .. Science bends as the 'facts' change.. as in my old text book. Believing science takes faith..
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Science has only gained credibility and it is the most trustworthy discipline because it relies on results occurring in the real world and continual vetting against any ideas that collect the known facts in a more coherent manner.

Believing in science would take faith; however, it's not something to be believed or disbelieved, it is something to be practiced and proved or improved. Any attack against a tenet of science that shows an idea to be incorrect simply improves it by showing where it was wrong and how it is now improved by the knowledge of where it was wrong--so yes, it changes to accept new information or a better structure of known data. It isn't dogma that relies on unprovable belief.
 
Hatuey said:
Science has only gained credibility and it is the most trustworthy discipline because it relies on results occurring in the real world and continual vetting against any ideas that collect the known facts in a more coherent manner.

Believing in science would take faith; however, it's not something to be believed or disbelieved, it is something to be practiced and proved or improved. Any attack against a tenet of science that shows an idea to be incorrect simply improves it by showing where it was wrong and how it is now improved by the knowledge of where it was wrong--so yes, it changes to accept new information or a better structure of known data. It isn't dogma that relies on unprovable belief.
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Obviously, many people believe in global warming, by faith, it has not been proven.

Do I believe that George Washington really lived and was the first president of the USA. Yes, I do. Why? I read about him in history books that are witnessed by writings from people who knew him. Now if new info. was to be found and experts decided that they were valid then maybe something we had all previously believed about him may change. Or new findings could bear witness to what we already knew.
The Bible is not any different in the sense that the historical record is being validated and witnessed to by things like the Qumran and archeology. At one time, there was no proof that King David or the House David ever existed. That proof was find by an archeologist. Just like archeology has been a witness to writings about other civilizations.
Take for instance one of the manuscripts found at Qumran. It is called the Isaiah scroll, it is 24 ft in length. The portion that is what we read as Isaiah 53 is one example of how closely the scriptures have been guard over time. I quote.... from Geisler and Nix, General Introduction to the Bible, 1968.
"Of the 166 words in Isaiah 53, there are only 17 letters in question. Ten of these letters are simply a matter of spelling, which does not affect the sense. Four more letters are minor stylistic changes, such as conjunctions. The remaining three letters comprise the word 'light' which is added in verse 11, and does not affect the meaning greatly. Furthermore, this word is supported by LXX and IQ Is. Thus, in one chapter of 166 words, there is only one word (3 letters) in question after a thousand years of transmission--and this word does not significantly change the meaning of the passage."
Isaiah, is the book that gives the most detailed prophecies about the coming of the Redeemer, known as Jesus Christ.
For any logical person, I would think that prophecies given 1000 yrs before Christ would be very compelling.
 
Deborah13 said:
Obviously, many people believe in global warming, by faith, it has not been proven.

Do I believe that George Washington really lived and was the first president of the USA. Yes, I do. Why? I read about him in history books that are witnessed by writings from people who knew him. Now if new info. was to be found and experts decided that they were valid then maybe something we had all previously believed about him may change. Or new findings could bear witness to what we already knew.
The Bible is not any different in the sense that the historical record is being validated and witnessed to by things like the Qumran and archeology. At one time, there was no proof that King David or the House David ever existed. That proof was find by an archeologist. Just like archeology has been a witness to writings about other civilizations.
Take for instance one of the manuscripts found at Qumran. It is called the Isaiah scroll, it is 24 ft in length. The portion that is what we read as Isaiah 53 is one example of how closely the scriptures have been guard over time. I quote.... from Geisler and Nix, General Introduction to the Bible, 1968.
"Of the 166 words in Isaiah 53, there are only 17 letters in question. Ten of these letters are simply a matter of spelling, which does not affect the sense. Four more letters are minor stylistic changes, such as conjunctions. The remaining three letters comprise the word 'light' which is added in verse 11, and does not affect the meaning greatly. Furthermore, this word is supported by LXX and IQ Is. Thus, in one chapter of 166 words, there is only one word (3 letters) in question after a thousand years of transmission--and this word does not significantly change the meaning of the passage."
Isaiah, is the book that gives the most detailed prophecies about the coming of the Redeemer, known as Jesus Christ.
For any logical person, I would think that prophecies given 1000 yrs before Christ would be very compelling.
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Complex theories that attempt to incorporate many scientific facts are NEVER proven. The theory simply has much or little weight depending on how the proven factual components fit together. The effect of global warming, if it is a correct theory, would be an ice age, anyway. Besides, global warming would be a great thing for religions in that it would cause extreme hardship for our species which always causes humans to turn towards "supernatural" solutions and "faith."

Most published and prevalent prophecies are very compelling regardless of the religion or culture in which they arise and are found. We never find out about the noncompelling prophecies, because people stop talking about them over time. I do not find the biblical prophecies compelling for reasons you could find on most internet sites that deal with skepticism of bible prophecies. I won't bore you with my personal perspective, here.
 
True story...
"Wow man, your moon in Colorado is bigger than our moon in Georgia!"

Now that is the Opinion of a young man from Georgia.
 
Hatuey said:
I'd be concerned about maintaining my Christian faith if I planned on reading the bible this literally. I'm not a Christian, but I would think one of the biggest challenges for believers is in deciding which scriptures are to be read as scientific, solid, no-doubt-about-it FACT, and which scriptures are not for one reason or another (allegory, parable, figurative language). Christians disagree on which scriptures should be read in which way, and there's no mechanism that can prove one determination over another. For example, when "the sun and moon stood still" for Joshua, did the sun and moon and the entire galaxy stop ALL of its motions as would have been necessary, or did the earth stop its rotation, or was it something else? There's either information missing, or the information provided isn't exactly correct, or some other explanation applies.
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"galaxy" There is no galaxy.......there is no ball of burning gas...there is no floating rock. Well thats my opinion, from reading Genesis 1:16 "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.'
 
BigSodaExposer said:
"galaxy" There is no galaxy.......there is no ball of burning gas...there is no floating rock. Well thats my opinion, from reading Genesis 1:16 "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.'
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How do you get that from that verse? You have a lot of explaining to do.
 
When it comes to the word of God and wanting to know truth opinions fly out the window as most opinions are based on logic and Gods word can not be read in a logical mindset. Gods word is literal and Spiritual and to get full truth of what you are reading one must pray first and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal all truths to them. You have to read word by word, verse by verse and Chapter by Chapter to receive full understanding of the knowledge the Holy Spirit has now given you through Spiritual eyes and ears that will see and hear truth. Test the spirits that are speaking through others and take the scriptures they give and read and study them yourself through the Holy Spirit so you will always remain in the truth of what God has already spoken. The Bible is not hard to read as even a child can comprehend what it says, but we as adults allow our minds to be clouded and become confused for what we hear, especially from the pulpit.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
 
for_his_glory said:
When it comes to the word of God and wanting to know truth opinions fly out the window as most opinions are based on logic and Gods word can not be read in a logical mindset.
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I'm quite certain you can't prove that with Scripture. We are not to ignore logic and reason when reading the Bible. In fact, the Bible hints at quite the opposite (I don't have my resources here so I can't post any passages at the moment). But take this thread for instance. One can simply use reason to see that the OP is very wrong in their opinions about what Gen 1 teaches.

for_his_glory said:
The Bible is not hard to read as even a child can comprehend what it says, but we as adults allow our minds to be clouded and become confused for what we hear, especially from the pulpit.
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To read is not necessarily to comprehend. Even a superficial reading can result in difficulty in comprehending parts of the Bible but the Bible goes much deeper to points which adults have great difficulty. It may have nothing to do with allowing one's mind to "become clouded or confused." There are numerous reasons as to the difficulties.

for_his_glory said:
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
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This passage is likely addressing the heresy of Gnosticism, since they believe(d) that flesh was evil.
 
Free said:
I'm quite certain you can't prove that with Scripture. We are not to ignore logic and reason when reading the Bible. In fact, the Bible hints at quite the opposite (I don't have my resources here so I can't post any passages at the moment). But take this thread for instance. One can simply use reason to see that the OP is very wrong in their opinions about what Gen 1 teaches.


To read is not necessarily to comprehend. Even a superficial reading can result in difficulty in comprehending parts of the Bible but the Bible goes much deeper to points which adults have great difficulty. It may have nothing to do with allowing one's mind to "become clouded or confused." There are numerous reasons as to the difficulties.


This passage is likely addressing the heresy of Gnosticism, since they believe(d) that flesh was evil.
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There is logic in many things, but when one only relies on the logical in the way they were taught by others may become completely different then what God has already spoken as logic can also become ones own opinion that might differ from another ones opinion. Many things seem logical to us, but are they in all fairness logical by God or by man.

One can comprehend what they are reading (no matter the age) if they take it word by word, sentence by sentence then chapter by chapter. There have been many times I would get stuck on just one word in a verse and would not move on until I got clear understanding of just that one word that made the whole verse become knowledgeable to me.

1John 4:1-6 has nothing to do with heresy of Gnosticism. God is merely teaching us how to test the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error in what is being taught us so we will know for a surety of what others are teaching is in all truth or in error.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
 
I think the OP is a bit off. That's my opinion, of course! The Bible is true, it is the Word of God, and it reveals Jesus Christ from start to finish. But you have to understand hermeneutics to realize that the Bible can be misused and twisted, and someone can still call it a fact. You have to understand culture, genre, and the original languages before you can really talk about the facts of the Bible. Even more important, you have to know how to interpret and read the historical-grammatical setting.

A simple might be the example that the Bible says the demons are saved.

"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!" James 2:19
"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

Because the demons believe in Jesus, therefore they are saved! Of course this is terrible eisegesis, and the demons are not saved. Yet many come up with this fact by not knowing how to correctly discern how to read the Bible. It's called bad doctrine!

Another example is that there is no god, and the Bible says it.

"“There is no God.” Psalm 14:1b.

Of course, the fact is that you need 14a with that verse that says, "The fool says in his heart" and the rest of the verse that says, "They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good."

That is context. So just because you say it is from the Word, doesn't make it correct. And a finely tuned opinion, based on the Word, might leave you understanding the Bible a lot better than cherry picking and mixing and matching verses to suit your tastes.
 
I haven't posted here in awhile. Listen, I didn't make this post to cause a debate. But it helps tremendously when you realize how much opinion there is out here about the bible. I can watch a few youtube videos about the bible and it just makes me feel terrible. And then I remember, all they are is giving their opinion. And it may not be my opinion I get when I read a certain scripture. People sell books everyday about their opinion on the bible. And as several people pointed out. When you serve up a certain verse you are giving an opinion, to reinforce your opinion! lol when the fact is you dont know that for certain. Many people can say that America is the mystery babylon but we do not know that for sure. The chess pieces can move alot in 20-100 years. America might be a no nothing 3rd world country by then who knows. Thanks everyone for helping me understand this. It all helps me.
 
MysticalJourney said:
I think the OP is a bit off. That's my opinion, of course! The Bible is true, it is the Word of God, and it reveals Jesus Christ from start to finish. But you have to understand hermeneutics to realize that the Bible can be misused and twisted, and someone can still call it a fact. You have to understand culture, genre, and the original languages before you can really talk about the facts of the Bible. Even more important, you have to know how to interpret and read the historical-grammatical setting.

A simple might be the example that the Bible says the demons are saved.

"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!" James 2:19
"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

Because the demons believe in Jesus, therefore they are saved! Of course this is terrible eisegesis, and the demons are not saved. Yet many come up with this fact by not knowing how to correctly discern how to read the Bible. It's called bad doctrine!

Another example is that there is no god, and the Bible says it.

"“There is no God.” Psalm 14:1b.

Of course, the fact is that you need 14a with that verse that says, "The fool says in his heart" and the rest of the verse that says, "They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good."

That is context. So just because you say it is from the Word, doesn't make it correct. And a finely tuned opinion, based on the Word, might leave you understanding the Bible a lot better than cherry picking and mixing and matching verses to suit your tastes.
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Thanks, and just for the sake of what you wrote. No I do not believe the demons are saved. God's plan of salvation is for men, not Angels.
 
Believing science takes faith..
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Wow, someone gets it about science!
It's true though, we are not scientists ourselves, so we listen and read them but in the end, we choose to put our faith into them and trust that what they are saying is true.

Good thread and good topic brother. Your OP makes perfect sense.
 
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