There will be NO Secret Rapture!

[TruthSeeker2012]

The Catholic church introduced the secret "rapture" or "left behind" theory so people won't bother to read Revelation, where the beast and mark of the beast is revealed. They are led to believe they won't be around when the prophecies of Revelation occur, so why bother reading it? Know what I mean?

The foundation of the "rapture" or "left behind" theory was laid over 400 years ago upon the specific orders of the Catholic Church! And this doctrine is down right dangerous and has NO valid Biblical support!

The "Secret Rapture or left behind" teaching is a down right and dangerous doctrinal distortion, because it could delude the majority of professed Christians into being lost. The "left behind" theory is a major deception that many Christians believe to be true!

There is not the slightest hint that this final separation of the saved and lost will be done in any secretive manner. Yet, this connotation has been applied by those who are desperately trying to find inspired support for an empty tradition. The unscriptural two-phase coming has been repeated so often and so persistently that millions believe it must be true.

The amazing thing is how people have taken such obvious verses and twisted them out of context to support a doctrine which does not even appear in the Bible.

Others, who profess to have studied its pages, contend that the book is of little practical value to the committed Christian expecting to be raptured to Heaven. Why? Because most of the events it foretells, they think, are going to occur after the main body of the church has been caught away to Heaven. In other words, the book need not concern true believers because they will not be on earth when the events it predicts come true.

His second coming will be visible to both the righteous and the wicked (1 Corinthians 1:7; Hebrews 9:28; Matthew 24:30; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27). It will be audible (1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16; Matthew 24:31; Psalms 50:3). It will be personal (Acts 1:11); bodily (John 14:1-3). It will be glorious (Matthew 24:30; 25:31; Luke 21:27; Mark 13:26). It will occur before the thousand-year millennium, and it is imminent (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; Revelation 29:6; Matthew 24:36-39, 44).

The Bible plainly says that Christ's return will be anything but quiet or secret: "Our God shall come and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him" (Psalms 50:3).

No wonder Jesus warned: "Take heed that no man deceive you."

Paul adds to the information about the final fate of those who are not ready for Christ's coming: "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints."

At the very same time that the righteous are glorified, the rejecters of His grace will be slain by the brightness of His presence.

This interesting revelation brings us face to face with the massive deception which has misled millions of Christians. Obviously, there will be nothing secret about the rapture of the saints, and the so-called "secret rapture or left behind" is only a figment of the imagination.

There is absolutely no scriptural indication that the return of Christ takes place in two phases. The popular concept that Jesus comes secretly seven years before the end of the world to snatch away the saved Christians has no Bible support whatsoever. The wicked do not continue living in the earth for seven years after the mythical rapture of the righteous. They are slain, Paul says, "When he (Jesus) shall come to be glorified in his saints."

Matthew 24:42-44: "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

There it is! So simple that a child can understand it. It will be unexpected. The advent will take the world by surprise. His coming will burst upon this earth when people least expect it. They will be just as unprepared for it as they would for a midnight thief. These words do not convey the least idea that our Lord will come sneaking around like some common criminal. He was just using a striking illustration of the unexpectedness of His return. Jesus reinforced the point He was making in verse 50, "The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of."

The amazing thing is how people have taken such obvious verses and twisted them out of context to support a doctrine which does not even appear in the Bible. The same thing has been done with the illustration of two woman grinding together. Jesus did say, "The one shall be taken and the other left," but what does the context tell us about the meaning of those words? Is there any indication whatsoever that Jesus was teaching a secret rapture of the saints?

The words in question are found in Luke 17:24-27, but let's read the verses before and after in order to get the full picture. Beginning in verse 26 Jesus likened His coming to the days of Noah: "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all."

The similarity is beyond question. Before the flood some were taken and some were left. The ones taken were taken into the ark and saved. The ones who were left were all destroyed by the raging water.

Christ continued His discourse with another illustration. "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." Verses 28-30.

Again, the parallel is obvious. Some were taken out of the city to safety and some were left. What happened to those who were left? They were all destroyed by the fire.

Now we come to verses 34-36: "I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

Please keep the continuity of Christ's previous illustration in mind as you consider these words. In every case there had been a separation of the good from the bad, and then the wicked were slain. If the context teaches us anything at all, we must conclude that the one who is left will be left dead, just as it was in Noah and Lot's days. And when we read the next verse, there can be no doubt that this is exactly what Jesus was saying. "And they answered and said unto him, Where Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." Verse 37.

After Jesus said one would be taken and the other left, the disciples asked where they would be left. His answer clearly reveals that all who were left would be dead. Their bodies would be food for the eagles to devour. This is in perfect harmony with what the rest of the Bible says on the subject.

 

[handy]

Can you provide documentation that it was the Catholic church...

I've always thought that this (in my opinion as well) erroneous teaching came out of John Darby, a Church of Ireland (Anglican) priest, who left the Anglican church and helped found the Plymouth Brethren...and one who was no friend of the Catholic church.

I've never heard of the Catholic church teaching this doctrine.

 

[savedbyhim01]

I believe in the rapture. If the verses in the Bible are studied carefully it is pretty clear there are two different events (one Jesus coming in the clouds to meet believers in the air) and the other Jesus coming to earth to establish His kingdom. However, I don't believe this rapture is going to be secret. I don't see how tens of millions of people disappearing from the earth can be very secret.

 

[Acebopata]

I believe in the rapture. If the verses in the Bible are studied carefully it is pretty clear there are two different events (one Jesus coming in the clouds to meet believers in the air) and the other Jesus coming to earth to establish His kingdom. However, I don't believe this rapture is going to be secret. I don't see how tens of millions of people disappearing from the earth can be very secret.

This was exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Lehigh3]

Christians are being "caught up" every day. It is in the spiritual realm of the unseen.
But it is no secret!
We will all lay down our earthly tents upon departure from this earth & be "raptured" to God.

NKJV,
2 Corinthians 5

Assurance of the Resurrection

1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

 

[Vic C.]

Can you provide documentation that it was the Catholic church...

I've always thought that this (in my opinion as well) erroneous teaching came out of John Darby, a Church of Ireland (Anglican) priest, who left the Anglican church and helped found the Plymouth Brethren...and one who was no friend of the Catholic church.

I've never heard of the Catholic church teaching this doctrine.

Dora, I hope you see this. Truthseeker should have addressed this earlier.

The Catholic Church doesn't teach this. They don't usually teach anything at all on the End Times, but if they did, it would not be historical premil.

Anyway, research "Francisco de Ribera" regarding futurism.

 

[Acebopata]

As I see it, the exact timing of the Rapture is to be a secrete, but it won't be a big secrete. However, aside from "The dead in Christ rising first and we who are alive and remain shall be cought up in the clouds and we will forever be with our Lord," I haven't seem anything definite in what time the rapture will happen in terms of per-tribulation, mid-tribulation, or post-tribulation.

That leads me to several conclusions.

1. I need to study the event more

2. Not only are people not sussposd to know the day or the hour, but also they are not susposed to know in what time frame the rature will occur.

3. There is both a per-tribulation and a post tribulation rapture.

4. The rapture could most likely be a per-tribulation rapture.



Sense more than one theory remains, this means that conclusion one is automatically needed.

Conclusion two is debunked when Jesus said that we would know when his return was near, even at the door.

Conclusion three is formatted form the rapture of Jesus before his disciples, The events where Elijah was delivered into heaven on the chariot of fire, and several events similar to the rapture, but usually involved only a few people. If smaller versons of the rapture occured in the past, it is quite possable more than giant rapture could occur, one to take the faithful and watchful up before the tribulation, and one to take up the lords elect who has chosen him as their savor and survived the Anti-Christ.

Conclusion four is derived form the possibility the rapture event is not found in the book of revelation, but is demonstrated else-where.

 

[ILTL888]

From reading over the Bible and especially Revelations multiple times, I found that there has to be a secret rapture.. Or else it contradicts God's word.

I'll post some scriptures and explain, firstly...

Matthew 24:22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

This explain that for the elects sake, to save their flesh, the end times will be shortened. That right there already implies there will be a rapture to save the elect.

Now let's look at Revelation chapter 12...

1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.â€[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. 11 They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. 12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.â€

13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

As you read through that scripture, you can see the woman, who I believe symbolizes the bride of christ/144,000/Gods elect, is targeted by the dragon, but there is a place prepared for her by God.

What's interesting about this chapter about the woman and the dragon is that its one story told in three. It's not one story read from start to finish. It has a beginning and an end, three times. Each time layers of another but adds a little more to the story.

So as you read on it shows that these people are in heaven after satan is cast down to earth in the end times. It says for them people to rejoice(who I believe is the 144,000/first fruits/Redeemed from the earth), but woe to the others because the devil has gone down to them. The story goes on saying the dragon wished to destroy the women but the earth helped her. So the dragon goes and makes war with the remnant of her seed, whom I believe is the Great multitude.

So from reading the scriptures, there's plain sight evidence that there is a "secret" rapture.

Can you say otherwise with the word of God?

 

[Sinthesis]

From reading over the Bible and especially Revelations multiple times, I found that there has to be a secret rapture.. Or else it contradicts God's word.

I'll post some scriptures and explain, firstly...

Matthew 24:22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

This explain that for the elects sake, to save their flesh, the end times will be shortened. That right there already implies there will be a rapture to save the elect.

If those days are shortened, then the elect don't need to be raptured, at least as you understand the rapture.

If the elect are raptured while leaving all others to face their doom by not surviving the end times, then those days aren't really shortened.:eeeekkk

 

[reba]

Small part of your post..

So as you read on it shows that these people are in heaven after satan is cast down to earth in the end times.

Where is satan today ?

 

[ILTL888]

If those days are shortened, then the elect don't need to be raptured, at least as you understand the rapture.

If the elect are raptured while leaving all others to face their doom by not surviving the end times, then those days aren't really shortened.:eeeekkk

The elect need to be ruptured to save their flesh. Just as the scripture says, if them days were not cut short, no flesh would be saved, but for the elects sake whom he has chosen, them days will be cut short.

It says, "For the elect's sake, them days will be shortened."

I think you are viewing it as the days overall for the world. Why couldn't it mean the days that the elect are on this earth? That would make complete sense since their days would have to be shortened to save their flesh. You can clearly see they are dwelling in heaven after the Devil has gone down to the world. So it clearly shows their days have been cut short.

 

[ILTL888]

Small part of your post..


Where is satan today ?

Ascended in the heavens awaiting to be thrown down when his kingdom on earth is brought to its peak.

"Isaiah 14 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

This begins says how Satan has fallen and been cut to the grown, but then it goes on saying he will ascend into heaven and will exalt his throne above the stars of God. It continues going on saying Satan will ascend above the heights of the clouds(in the heavens), he will be like the most high. It then finishes saying ultimately he will be brought down for the final time, without ever being able to return to the heavens and will be cast into hell.

Now to look at Revelations 12, which Jesus gave to show the things what must soon take place in the end times...

"7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. "

Let me first point this out to keep a time frame in line. Look at the first passage I posted in Revelations 12, now compare it Daniel chapter 12.

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. "

Now this is speaking of the end time during the Great Tribulation. So you can see the Dragon/Satan is still in the heavens and soon in the future will be doing battle against Michael and his angels.

So you see, "8And prevailed not; neither was their place found ANY MORE in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

This is speaking of an event that has yet to come.
Now don't get me wrong, there is still hope as it says that we which remain until the coming of the lord will be caught up with them in the clouds to be with the lord forever.

It's also said that we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a twinkling of an eye.

As Jesus says, pray that you may escape all these things that are coming in the end-times

Another thing to point out, it says in Revelations that the devil will put some* of you in prison, and test you for 10 days, but be faithful, even to death and you'll receive your crown.

So aside from the elect, not everyone will be doomed.

We all must be prepared for what's to come, this will be the ultimate test of faith.

 

[reba]

Where?

sa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
Isa 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
Isa 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

 

[Acebopata]

Quite frankly, I don't care when it happens, only that me, my friends, loved ones, acquaintances, and enemies are prepared when it happens.

Seriously, why do people get bent out of shape over when the rapture is going to be. So what if you think it's going to be a secrete rapture? As long as your ready, and help others to prepare for it, then your set. And the same goes for those who believe that the rapture will not be a secrete rapture.

You don't need to know the exact time period of when it's going to happen in accordance to revelation. There's actually only three basic requirements to be prepared for the event.

1. You are looking for it.
2. You are a born again believer, with Jesus as your savor.
3. You are doing your best to turn form sin.

You can't be missed for the rapture if you meet these requirements. No, you don't have to be perfect, and no, your not tiring to earn your way into heaven. But Accepting the Lord as your savor also means repenting, or turning away form sin. It does not mean "Being perfect", or "God's gonna strike you with thunder if you mess up." What it means is that you are Serious in your Christian walk about serving the Lord.

 

[reba]

yup ACE

 

[Pard]

Totally agree Ace.

The New Testament (I feel) is pretty much laid out in order of what you need to learn. First you need to learn about Jesus and who He was and what He did. That's why you read the first books which all concern Jesus' life. Then you read about the apostles and what they did. This part is what really solidifies what it means to be Christian and says how a Christian ought to act and such. You can't really get or apply this stuff until after you know Christ and thus it comes after Jesus' story.

Lastly you get to Revelations. That's the kind of thing you read when you are wicked old (like 50 :p) and need a few dozen naps and prune juice to get through the day. I still have not really read Revelations. Like I skimmed it and stuff but I just don't see the point in getting to that point when I am still not all that with it in respects to the being a goodly Christian bit.

So yeah I don't get why people get all sorts of crossed over a part of the scheme that really has the least to do with them.

 

[ILTL888]

Quite frankly, I don't care when it happens, only that me, my friends, loved ones, acquaintances, and enemies are prepared when it happens.

Seriously, why do people get bent out of shape over when the rapture is going to be. So what if you think it's going to be a secrete rapture? As long as your ready, and help others to prepare for it, then your set. And the same goes for those who believe that the rapture will not be a secrete rapture.

You don't need to know the exact time period of when it's going to happen in accordance to revelation. There's actually only three basic requirements to be prepared for the event.

1. You are looking for it.
2. You are a born again believer, with Jesus as your savor.
3. You are doing your best to turn form sin.

You can't be missed for the rapture if you meet these requirements. No, you don't have to be perfect, and no, your not tiring to earn your way into heaven. But Accepting the Lord as your savor also means repenting, or turning away form sin. It does not mean "Being perfect", or "God's gonna strike you with thunder if you mess up." What it means is that you are Serious in your Christian walk about serving the Lord.

I agree. We should not be worried about when it happens, but rather be prepared for what we have to face, no matter what. What this topic is about is that there is no rapture, not when it will happen.

 

[reba]

ILTL888, Still waiting for an answer to post #13

 

[Sinthesis]

The elect need to be ruptured to save their flesh.

Why would God want to save their flesh?
How is flesh saved by gathering it to Heaven?
How can flesh enter Heaven?

Is it the flesh of the elect that is saved? Or is it the soul which is promised a resurrected body?

Just as the scripture says, if them days were not cut short, no flesh would be saved, but for the elects sake whom he has chosen, them days will be cut short.

It says, "For the elect's sake, them days will be shortened."

I think you are viewing it as the days overall for the world.

That's not how I view it. I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in your viewpoint.

Why couldn't it mean the days that the elect are on this earth? That would make complete sense since their days would have to be shortened to save their flesh. You can clearly see they are dwelling in heaven after the Devil has gone down to the world. So it clearly shows their days have been cut short.

Flesh dwelling in heaven? What? Your idea makes no sense given the context of the rest of the passage:

Mat 24:20 - But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 - And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 - Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
Mat 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 - Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 - Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
Mat 24:27 - For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 - For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.​

Who is Jesus talking to here?
Who does Jesus mean by the word "you"?
Who are "they" (Matt 24:24)?
How are they tempting "you"(Matt 24:26) with falsehoods if the elect are in Heaven?

Jesus' audience of "you" has obviously not been promised a rapture into Heaven, or there would not be the warnings to the "you" of Matt 24:23-24,26 that are given for "then"(Matt 24:23), meaning after the tribulation has been cut short.

Those days refer to the tribulation, thus it is the tribulation that is shortened. The elect go through the tribulation in the flesh along with the non-elect. The tribulation is cut short to save the physical lives of the elect, but some of the non-elect also make it through. These are the men who promote the deceptions of Matt 24:23-24,26.

 

[ILTL888]

ILTL888, Still waiting for an answer to post #13

I already answered your question about where Satan currently is. Are you saying that Revelation and the book of Daniel is a lie?