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There will be NO Secret Rapture!

True. There will be NO secret rapture.

The word "rapture" refers to the righteous being "caught up in the air" or being "taken away" to meet our Savior. This doesn't happen until Christ returns the second time (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
 
I don't like the word "rapture", the word is not found in the Bible and man has given it meanings the Bible does not attach to the 2nd coming of Christ. Such is what causes undue division and confusion.

Is the 2nd coming of Christ secret? NOT ACCORDING TO Rev. 1:7.
 
Not in the English, it comes form the Vulgate rending, the Greek word is Harpatzo.

Depends how one defines secret, even the Pre-Trib model still has the world noticing it happened.

The issue is when not if, I used to be firmly Post=Trib, I've become more open to Mid-Trib (with it possibly alluded to in Revelation 14), but I still see the Pre-Trib model as being refuted by 2nd Thessalonians.

A future addition to my Blog will be on The Rapture.
 
MithrandirOlorin said:
Not in the English, it comes form the Vulgate rending, the Greek word is Harpatzo.

Depends how one defines secret, even the Pre-Trib model still has the world noticing it happened.

The issue is when not if, I used to be firmly Post=Trib, I've become more open to Mid-Trib (with it possibly alluded to in Revelation 14), but I still see the Pre-Trib model as being refuted by 2nd Thessalonians.

A future addition to my Blog will be on The Rapture.
Click to expand...
The actual Latin word is Harpazo and it literally means this:

  1. to seize, carry off by force
  2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
  3. to snatch out or away

I actually believe in two tribulations:

The tribulation of the saints that has been going on since the death of Christ and

The tribulation of the Jews by the Romans in the Jewish revolt of the 1at. century.

However, i do not believe in a secret rapture. I hesitate in even using the word rapture. I prefer resurrection/transformation. :yes
 
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

In the words of the returning Christ the resurrection is the last day.

What could be after the last day?
 
It's pretty clear to me that there is a rapture as in accordance to 1st and 2nd Thessolians. I also believe it is a pre-trib rapture as the Bible tells us "no man knows the day or the hour" (of the rapture) but we will know the signs of the times. Also, Revelation spells out the Tribulation period in accordance to the events outlined therein and gives a specific amount of days for the tribulation period, with the antichrist breaking his covernant at the 3 1/2 year point. So those left behind will know exactly where they are in the tribulation period according to what's happening on earth and thereby be able to predict the last day pretty accurately. The rapture, however, not so.
 
BELIEVER ! said:
It's pretty clear to me that there is a rapture as in accordance to 1st and 2nd Thessolians. I also believe it is a pre-trib rapture as the Bible tells us "no man knows the day or the hour" (of the rapture) but we will know the signs of the times. Also, Revelation spells out the Tribulation period in accordance to the events outlined therein and gives a specific amount of days for the tribulation period, with the antichrist breaking his covernant at the 3 1/2 year point. So those left behind will know exactly where they are in the tribulation period according to what's happening on earth and thereby be able to predict the last day pretty accurately. The rapture, however, not so.
Click to expand...
I also believe it is a pre-trib rapture as the Bible tells us "no man knows the day or the hour" (of the rapture)


Where does it say that?
 
MithrandirOlorin said:
The Resurrection of the Saved is done at the start of the Millennium. If your Amillennial then that has already happened.
Click to expand...
Hmmm 100% of the Amillenneialist I know personally as well as an equal faction of those I ve heard of are in complete agreement with Christ as touches the resurrection.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
 
I am a post-tribber so I agree with you. However, I do think you got one thing wrong. You said, "The ones taken were taken into the ark and saved." The Bible says, "and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and TOOK them all away." Everyone except Noah were the ones who were taken. This is verse 39 and verses 40-41 talk about one taken and one left.

I have some sympathy for pre-tribbers who say, "If you read verses 40-41 in the context of verse 39, then you conclude that the one taken is taken in judgement." However, I think they are wrong. The word "take" in verse 39 is a completely different Greek word from the word "take" in verses 40-41. That alone should suggest that they have a different meaning.

I have written a 3 page paper called "One will be taken and the other left" which I will try to post here. Two days ago I tried to submit an 8 page paper called "Imminency." I got an automatic message saying this was to long so I broke it into 3 parts and submitted them - "A posttribulational take on imminency parts 1,2,& 3" I guess the moderators are still trying to decide if they will accept something that is that long. However, let me quote a little from "One will be taken and the other left:"

 First let me digress. The reason will soon become apparent. NIV says we “will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air†1 Thess. 4:17. I believe that “caught up†is too wimpy of a translation. The Greek word is harpazo. The complete definition in the dictionary in the back of my Greek New Testament is, “take by force, take away, carry off, catch up (into heaven), attack.†It is a very strong word.


How do you say Rapture in Hebrew? There is an obvious answer - laqakh. The definition 5 is, “take, (get, fetch), lay hold of (seize), receive, acquire (buy), bring, marry (take a wife), snatch (take away).â€



Note the first two listed meanings - take and seize. This is very close to the Greek word harpazo in the last paragraph. Why is this the obvious answer? There are two Raptures in the Old Testament – Enoch and Elijah – and both use laqakh in the description of their Rapture:


Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took [laqahk] him away. Gen. 5:24.


Do you know that the Lord is going to take [laqahk] your master [Elijah] from you today? 2 Kings 2:3,5


Also note that one of the definitions of laqakh is “take a wife.†Everyone agrees that the Rapture is Jesus coming to take his wife.


Furthermore, laqakh may hint at resurrection:


But God will redeem my soul from the grave; he will surely take [laqakh] me to himself. Ps. 49;15.


… afterward you will take [laqakh] me into glory. Ps. 73:24.


5 Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament Vol 1 Moody Press Chicago 1981, edited by R. Harris, associate editors Gleason Archer and Bruce Waltke p. 1124


I can not prove it, but I think Jesus used laqakh in Mt. 24:40-41 to hint at rapture and resurrection.
 
jwf1024 said:
I am a post-tribber so I agree with you. However, I do think you got one thing wrong. You said, "The ones taken were taken into the ark and saved." The Bible says, "and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and TOOK them all away." Everyone except Noah were the ones who were taken. This is verse 39 and verses 40-41 talk about one taken and one left.

I have some sympathy for pre-tribbers who say, "If you read verses 40-41 in the context of verse 39, then you conclude that the one taken is taken in judgement." However, I think they are wrong. The word "take" in verse 39 is a completely different Greek word from the word "take" in verses 40-41. That alone should suggest that they have a different meaning.

I have written a 3 page paper called "One will be taken and the other left" which I will try to post here. Two days ago I tried to submit an 8 page paper called "Imminency." I got an automatic message saying this was to long so I broke it into 3 parts and submitted them - "A posttribulational take on imminency parts 1,2,& 3" I guess the moderators are still trying to decide if they will accept something that is that long. However, let me quote a little from "One will be taken and the other left:"

 First let me digress. The reason will soon become apparent. NIV says we “will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air†1 Thess. 4:17. I believe that “caught up†is too wimpy of a translation. The Greek word is harpazo. The complete definition in the dictionary in the back of my Greek New Testament is, “take by force, take away, carry off, catch up (into heaven), attack.†It is a very strong word.


How do you say Rapture in Hebrew? There is an obvious answer - laqakh. The definition 5 is, “take, (get, fetch), lay hold of (seize), receive, acquire (buy), bring, marry (take a wife), snatch (take away).â€



Note the first two listed meanings - take and seize. This is very close to the Greek word harpazo in the last paragraph. Why is this the obvious answer? There are two Raptures in the Old Testament – Enoch and Elijah – and both use laqakh in the description of their Rapture:


Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took [laqahk] him away. Gen. 5:24.


Do you know that the Lord is going to take [laqahk] your master [Elijah] from you today? 2 Kings 2:3,5


Also note that one of the definitions of laqakh is “take a wife.†Everyone agrees that the Rapture is Jesus coming to take his wife.


Furthermore, laqakh may hint at resurrection:


But God will redeem my soul from the grave; he will surely take [laqakh] me to himself. Ps. 49;15.


… afterward you will take [laqakh] me into glory. Ps. 73:24.


5 Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament Vol 1 Moody Press Chicago 1981, edited by R. Harris, associate editors Gleason Archer and Bruce Waltke p. 1124


I can not prove it, but I think Jesus used laqakh in Mt. 24:40-41 to hint at rapture and resurrection.
Click to expand...
I can not prove it, but I think Jesus used laqakh in Mt. 24:40-41 to hint at rapture and resurrection.


Are you saying resurrection and rapture happen one right after the other?
 
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