You are saying that Rev 12:5 refers back to Jesus' birth? Thanks.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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Three Questions
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T
Tatilina
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I agree that it as well.
Colossians 1:23
... indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
This is why we are to actually STUDY the Scriptures, and not remain children who only know the few things we were told to believe in order for the Rapture to sound plausible.
Hi dear sister. There are many that do, and while it's true that Jesus gave John in Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen (Did John see Jesus born?), and the things which are (The things which are occurring during this present age), and the things which shall be hereafter; (Notice Rev 4:1 . . . Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.)
Where do you think "Come up hither" was, and what was "Hereafter" referring to?) Do you think there may have different instructions concerning "Hereafter" from things John had seen, or the things "which are?"
Just to throw a monkey wrench into the mix, was Jesus immediately caught up to God and His throne at the time of His birth such as we read of in Rev 12:5? Thanks.
I would believe this would only be in Paul's time as not all nations on every Continent would have been formed yet in Paul's day.
BTW I do not believe everything I hear, but study to show myself approved of God. Plus I do not believe in a pretrib rapture, but that's another topic.
Thank you for this as many have never heard of a Jezebel spirit. Her greatest accomplishment is teaching a false gospel as she has many followers.
And that is exactly the time when Jesus spoke, and the Apostles wrote to those people living then , and to whom the speech and letters were addressed. We, in our arrogance of somehow deciding all those words were only spoken and written for us living at this moment have relegated all the billions of people who have lived before us to meaninglessness. But, if (as I believe) there are yet to be born, billions more people, then we are twice as presumptuous to keep on declaring the whole book of Revelation (indeed, the full Bible) was just written for us, the only special and chosen ones for all time.
In those days, Jesus said that all the known world would hear of Him and the kingdom, BEFORE the old system would be destroyed, and His Christianity would be instituted. Col. 1:23 says that happened.
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Tatilina
Guest
The book of Revelation speaks mostly in symbolism and figuratively. I also do not believe. John was given a vision and in his vision he was called up to witness past, present and future prophecy.Hi dear sister. There are many that do, and while it's true that Jesus gave John in Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen (Did John see Jesus born?), and the things which are (The things which are occurring during this present age), and the things which shall be hereafter; (Notice Rev 4:1 . . . Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.)
Where do you think "Come up hither" was, and what was "Hereafter" referring to?) Do you think there may have different instructions concerning "Hereafter" from things John had seen, or the things "which are?"
Just to throw a monkey wrench into the mix, was Jesus immediately caught up to God and His throne at the time of His birth such as we read of in Rev 12:5? Thanks.
Just a heads up, I’m am Amillennialist.
If no one really knows what that is, here is a great that explains biblically what Amill is all about. It is very meaty and long, so you will at least an hour to thoroughly as I have a math exam tomorrow to prepare for now.
Amillennialism: A Direct Word from Scripture
I also do not believe any longer in Dispensationalism or the pre-trib rapture. I believe Jesus is already sitting on his throne ruling and we are seated in heavenly places already ruling with him.
Jesus made it very clear that his kingdon was never a physical kingdom as the Jews were looking for. I have to get studying now. God bless ypu brother Eugene.
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Tatilina
Guest
You’re very welcome. Yes, she is most certainly infiltrating the church as well as Christian communities. Her false doctrines - doctrines of demons.
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Tatilina
Guest
Eugene
Here are a few verses that I would like to share to help clarify to believe what I believe.
I have already been raised with Jesus, partaking in his first death.
Colossians 3:1-4 NIV
1Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is youra life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
Ephesians 2:6-7 NIV
6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
If you read Acts 2 and Ephesians 1 that it is very clear that Jesus Christ is already sitting and ruling from his throne now.
Here are a few verses that I would like to share to help clarify to believe what I believe.
I have already been raised with Jesus, partaking in his first death.
Colossians 3:1-4 NIV
1Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is youra life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
Ephesians 2:6-7 NIV
6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
If you read Acts 2 and Ephesians 1 that it is very clear that Jesus Christ is already sitting and ruling from his throne now.
Hi dear sister. There are many that do, and while it's true that Jesus gave John in Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen (Did John see Jesus born?), and the things which are (The things which are occurring during this present age), and the things which shall be hereafter; (Notice Rev 4:1 . . . Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.)
Where do you think "Come up hither" was, and what was "Hereafter" referring to?) Do you think there may have different instructions concerning "Hereafter" from things John had seen, or the things "which are?"
Just to throw a monkey wrench into the mix, was Jesus immediately caught up to God and His throne at the time of His birth such as we read of in Rev 12:5? Thanks.
Jesus has always been before the foundation of the world and even at His birth He has always been with God as He was born to be the light to a world that is in darkness, John 1:1-5. I do believe the man child spoken of in Rev 12:1-6 is referencing the child as being Christ as the woman is symbolic of Israel (Jew and Gentile) who will soon be delivered from all of Satan's persecutions against her as when the seventh trumpet sounds all the kingdoms of the world will then become the kingdoms of the Lord who will rule over them with a rod of iron as iron is symbolic of the stronghold Christ will have at that time, Rev 11:15. The woman being with child means that of Christ who is always present with us even at birth and when we read a little further Satan is about to devour her child meaning that of Satan and his angels who followed after him are about to battle against Christ and His warring angels in Rev 19:11-21.
God gave these revelations to Jesus first and then Jesus passed it onto John through a ministering angel as Jesus gave this angel what to speak as the angel revealed these visions to John who was instructed to write them down and give to the seven Churches in Asia, Rev 1:1. The revelations are for the Church in John’s time plus every generation from that time on until Jesus returns. John was only in the Spirit, Rev 4:1, 2, in his physical body sitting in prison and not literally taken up to heaven when he received from the angel all these revelations that he wrote down. Being caught up to heaven would go against what Jesus said in John 3:13. We have to remember that John was in prison on the isle of Patmos for his witness and testifying of Christ in Asia when he received all these revelations, Rev 1:9, 10
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Tatilina
Guest
Yes amen! This is how understand it as well. Many people mistake us Amill as not believing in a second coming of Christ in which we do. We don’y belueve there are two comings of Christ and neither is a Jew considered a Jew by physical descent.
Romans 2:28-29 NIV
28A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
I am neither pre-trib or post-trib, however, I hope for a pre-trib and prepare post-trib. Better to be safe than sorry.
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Tatilina
Guest
It doesn’t, but it does fortell us in Revelation before God starts pouring out his wrath it tells us in
Revelation 14:6-7 NIV
6Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
So no, the gospel has not yet been preached to the entire world, but Revelation does confirm that an Angel will be fulfilling his God given purpose to proclaim the message of God to those who our generation hasn’t even touched. There tribes that live exactly as their ancestors did. Most of these tribes are very dangerous for some to try to aporoach. These are the people who the Angel will witness to. So the bible tells us that it will happen, but it will be right before God pours out his wrath. In God’s timing I’m sure he will be generous with time giving these people space and time to repent and worship God.
Even through the seven trumpets sounding the Gospel will be preached to every nation, kindred and tongue, but the difference is that it will be the last time as God calls all to repent and turn back to Him during His mighty wrath being poured out into the world before Christ returns and salvation is lost forever to all who rejected Him. To those who are not of God will see all the events of Gods wrath as a mystery as they have no knowledge of what is happening.
Rev 10: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
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Tatilina
Guest
We both said the same thing confirming God’s word, Amen! It is so refreshing to find a believer on the same page!
My thought differs on this in the location and time. Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet. Although Jesus has been given all power and authority in heaven and earth we read of in Mt 28:18, Jesus has yet to take that power until His Day when He takes His own throne in Rev 4:2, and that will be the beginning of His Day, the Day of the Lord, or the Lord’s Day.
Heb 2:8 Thou (Our Father) hast put all things in subjection under His (Jesus’) feet. For in that He put all in subjection under Him, he left nothing that is not put under Him. But now we see not yet all things put under Him.
You then use Jn 3:13 as the basis for none being caught up to heaven, and at that present time that was correct, but we are talking future. When Jesus died, he first went into the lower parts of the earth and delivered all paradise into heaven with Him. That was where the thief went with Jesus from the cross according to Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Where is paradise today?
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught UP into paradise . . .
Psa 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens . . .
Then we come right back to the point I tried to tie into all the purpose of the three questions once before that will clear up a great deal of misunderstanding of things to come.
WHO IS JESUS’ ANGEL I never received an answer to.
Actually, the angel in Rev 14:6, 7 is preaching the gospel during God's great wrath, not before. New tribes are continually being found and preached to even as I type this and many that are preaching to them first have to build up a confidence with them so they will welcome the preachers into their villages. Although traveling to these villages is usually by foot going through jungles as you can not drive there many do die a martyr's death within the jungles before they even reach the villages as they are heavily protected from outsiders.
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Tatilina
Guest
We will and we are closer than ever to Christ’s second coming, so by then we will forget whether or not the rapture or second coming are one and the same or not. Everyone who is Pre-Trib, pre-wrath, post trib, premill (Dispensational or historic), Post-Mill, Amillennialism and then there is the SDA view where the reign of Christ takes place up in heaven. I have read scripture through the holy spirit alone and have come to the understanding if scripture thru my Amill lens. I wasn’t taught this eschatology position, I didn’t even know I was Amill until a Premill accused me of it. We were in the middle of a debate about who populates the millennial here on earth during a physical reign on earth? I thought that quetion itself was perverted because of the understanding I had from reading scripture. After that I went and researched all four millennial poisitions. Of course I’ve considered the Premill position, but it does not make any sense to me and has so many holes and contradictions. I think that those who are not brought up with only asking God to teach you his word thru the Holy spirit before opening your bible instead of being indoctrinated with a pastors own personal stance. So then the congregation is easily swayed to the pastor’s position.Nuff said.
Prayerfully we come the knowledge of the truth.
1 John 2:26-27
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
John 14:25-27
25“All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
Isn’t COOL how scriptures correlate? I find it absolutely phenomenal that both verses are speaking about the same topic that I addressing. Both are in verses 25/26-27!
God is just too awesome!
All creation? Would thar be the known world of the time? Or did they reach America? They reached India