[__ Science __ ] Thunder

[KevinK]

Well think of how we were taught to test electrical on a car...+ to -

Is that not right now? It seems to work...

It is not right. The actual flow is from - to +. For the vast majority of common electric devices, it simply doesn't matter. When physicists are theorizing, they need to know the true direction, and so reverse the circuit. Do a search on this, plenty of stuff will come up.

 

[Edward]

That diagram also says the electric is in the wires...and I was taught that it actually travels outside the wire...
Otherwise clamp type meters would not work.

 

[Edward]

So they didn't tell me the truth in the electrical classes and were just training glorified parts changers, Lol!

HVAC is not a skilled trade. It's a tools trade. Dangit, and I thought I was skilled!
The more I learn the less I feel I know. Hilarious!

 

[KevinK]

That diagram also says the electric is in the wires...and I was taught that it actually travels outside the wire...
Otherwise clamp type meters would not work.

From what I understand, the electrons move through the wire, but the energy, which is a wave effect, travels outside its perimeter.

 

[KevinK]

So they didn't tell me the truth in the electrical classes and were just training glorified parts changers, Lol!

HVAC is not a skilled trade. It's a tools trade. Dangit, and I thought I was skilled!
The more I learn the less I feel I know. Hilarious!

Like I said, current direction depends entirely on whether you're talking to an electrician or a physicist. Engineers are caught in the middle; they draw from convention, but in their mind they know it's all a lie.

 

[jasonc]

Well think of how we were taught to test electrical on a car...+ to -

Is that not right now? It seems to work...

It's rectified to flow in that direction.you can have it floe in other direction as ac dies .

 

[JohnDB]

Electrons are magnetic in nature.

Clamp meters work by reading the magnetism in the wire. But AC is needed for them to work. (The relative motion of increasing and decreasing magnetic field)

Electricity normally flows through out the entire wire.... however high frequency AC tends to stay on the surface of wires. High wattage radio towers can use silver tubing to conduct their current to antanae instead of wire. Most just use stranded wire instead.

50-60 hz is not high enough frequency to cause "skin effect" where current travels on just the outside of the wire.

Most of your high voltage transmission lines use 15 hz in America instead of 60. It's transformed into 60 hz at substations into distribution lines.

 

[KevinK]

It's rectified to flow in that direction.you can have it floe in other direction as ac dies .

That's right. Most cars nowadays have "alternators", which as the name suggests produce alternating current (some real old cars have DC generators). The AC is immediately rectified to DC by a commutator, the reason being that the car battery can only work with DC.

The current coming into your home is left as AC, as most homes do not use a battery system, and also it simplifies the design of electric motors (DC motors need a commutator to convert the current to AC, which they need to run).

 

[jasonc]

That's right. Most cars nowadays have "alternators", which as the name suggests produce alternating current (some real old cars have DC generators). The AC is immediately rectified to DC by a commutator, the reason being that the car battery can only work with DC.

The current coming into your home is left as AC, as most homes do not use a battery system, and also it simplifies the design of electric motors (DC motors need a commutator to convert the current to AC, which they need to run).

Visually ,I can't see the difference of an ac motor and dc,I have took both apart .the permanent magnets is used to create the need to turn the rotor as well.

 

[KevinK]

Visually ,I can't see the difference of an ac motor and dc,I have took both apart .the permanent magnets is used to create the need to turn the rotor as well.

The DC motor must have had one of these:

 

[jasonc]

The DC motor must have had one of these:

Brush contact point,ac motors has those

 

[jasonc]

You can ,reverse that and run the motor as a generator or move a shaft.the hybrids do that

 

[JohnDB]

A DC generator has a commutator.

A car's alternator is different from a generator. Instead of coils moving around the magnets the magnets move around the coils.... which means that there is no commutator. There is however a full wave bridge rectifier and AC current is made. (Consists of 4 diodes to filter the current into DC)

 

[jasonc]

A DC generator has a commutator.

A car's alternator is different from a generator. Instead of coils moving around the magnets the magnets move around the coils.... which means that there is no commutator. There is however a full wave bridge rectifier and AC current is made. (Consists of 4 diodes to filter the current into DC)

Nine diodes now on some ,but on the hybrid there's is no starter ,the flywheel is in the turbine of the electric motor and also if the gas engine takes over that charges the battery.cars do have brushless motors.but I stand corrected

https://www.picoauto.com/library/training/the-alternator

 

[JohnDB]

Three diodes now on some ,but on the hybrid there's is no starter ,the flywheel is in the turbine of the electric motor and also if the gas engine takes over that charges the battery.cars do have brushless motors.but I stand corrected

I'm an electrician....I am paid to know this stuff and paid more because I do.

 

[jasonc]

Delta wound alternator in thay not a wye

 

[jasonc]

I'm an electrician....I am paid to know this stuff and paid more because I do.

Cars designs change.

https://www.picoauto.com/library/training/the-alternator

https://www.hybridcars.com/auxiliary-starter-motor/

 

[jasonc]

I'm an electrician....I am paid to know this stuff and paid more because I do.

So your paid to fix cars? These do change,can't think that what you learned in the past will work now.I have seen that .correction a wye wound system 9 diodes.

 

[JohnDB]

So your paid to fix cars? These do change,can't think that what you learned in the past will work now.I have seen that .correction a wye wound system 9 diodes.

I'm not a mechanic. I am an electrician and know the difference between a generator and an alternator.
I just pretend to be a mechanic when I work on my truck.

 

[jasonc]

I'm not a mechanic. I am an electrician and know the difference between a generator and an alternator.
I just pretend to be a mechanic when I work on my truck.

I was talking about a car alternator. Genators have not been used in some time.though I have seem alternators in use as an engine brake to stop it as its shutting off.these have clutches that allow slip to a degree and a load placed on them to stop the engine .I have read somewherea toyota or some using a starter to remain engaged after working to boost battery charging .I'm not sure if they tried that.I have seen odd things ,electric thermostats,my ranger had that ,only opened two degrees earlier then it's prior year of the same engine .