Tithe

[Pard]

What should we give when we tithe? Money? The fruits of our labors? Time?

Should we tithe 10% directly to the church? What about tithes to other good works? Can I give 2% here, 5% there, and 7% way over there?

Should we even give our tithe to anyone? Does God even want us to give our tithe to the church?

From this article http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/tru ... ithing.htm :

Paraphrase of God's Commandments on Tithing to the Israelites

One tenth of all your income is Mine, and it is holy unto Me. (Ref. Lev.27:30) Therefore, I, as the rightful Owner of the 10% of your every pay cheque, command you the following:

a) Take the tenth portion of your pay cheque, which is Mine, go and have fun. Spend it on you and your family, for whatever your heart desires.(Ref. Deu.12:5-7; Deu.12:10-12; Deu.12:17-18; Deu.14:22-26)

b) However, do not forget those whom I have called into My ministry and those who are poor: take 10% of your every THIRD pay check and do not spend it on yourself and your family, but rather give it to them. (Ref. Deu.12:19; Deu.14:27-29; Deu.26:12-13)

c) Remember: one tenth of your income is My holy tithe, and you MUST

NOT use it for ANY unclean thing, that is, for ANYTHING, but for what I have commanded you. (Ref. Deu.26: 14)

Observe the above commandments so that you may learn to fear the Lord your God, and I will bless you and I will prosper you in everything that you do. (Ref. Deu.14:23; Deu.14:29)

In other words, God said: "Throw in a party - and I'll pay the bill. However, do not forget those whom I have called into my ministry, and those who are less fortunate than you - and I will bless you."

 

[Guest]

Tithing is OT.
Giving with a cheerful heart is NT.
For those with much the obligation doesnt end at 10%.
For those who have little we can hardly demand that they let their children starve.
NT giving is about equality so that none are without.

edit.
Since NT giving is about equality, I personally dont think its required that we all give to a church.
We can give in part to the church and some elsewhere as God leads us to.
The churches are rich enough, quite frankly. I dont think I like the idea of buying new carpet or new pews myself. I prefer to give my time to the church(in the form of a lot of webmastering on my own part) and my money to someone who needs a meal and some clothing.

 

[Nick]

Tithing is OT.
Giving with a cheerful heart is NT.
For those with much the obligation doesnt end at 10%.
For those who have little we can hardly demand that they let their children starve.
NT giving is about equality so that none are without.

edit.
Since NT giving is about equality, I personally dont think its required that we all give to a church.
We can give in part to the church and some elsewhere as God leads us to.
The churches are rich enough, quite frankly. I dont think I like the idea of buying new carpet or new pews myself. I prefer to give my time to the church(in the form of a lot of webmastering on my own part) and my money to someone who needs a meal and some clothing.

That was a good post. While I feel that we should give to the church and other charities - whether it be money, other resources, skills or time - we should do it with a willing and loving heart. And I think that those with more should give more.

Some churches are rich, others are in dire need of funds.

Romans 12:3-8 provides some insight:
3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 4Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to hisfaith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

I think this part of Romans 8 supports the idea that giving to the church and serving are similar or the same, and giving does not always have to be in money. We all have different gifts - some people are blessed with money, and others are blessed with other things.

 

[Elijah674]

What should we give when we tithe? Money? The fruits of our labors? Time?

Should we tithe 10% directly to the church? What about tithes to other good works? Can I give 2% here, 5% there, and 7% way over there?

Should we even give our tithe to anyone? Does God even want us to give our tithe to the church?

From this article http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/tru ... ithing.htm :

Paraphrase of God's Commandments on Tithing to the Israelites

One tenth of all your income is Mine, and it is holy unto Me. (Ref. Lev.27:30) Therefore, I, as the rightful Owner of the 10% of your every pay cheque, command you the following:

a) Take the tenth portion of your pay cheque, which is Mine, go and have fun. Spend it on you and your family, for whatever your heart desires.(Ref. Deu.12:5-7; Deu.12:10-12; Deu.12:17-18; Deu.14:22-26)

b) However, do not forget those whom I have called into My ministry and those who are poor: take 10% of your every THIRD pay check and do not spend it on yourself and your family, but rather give it to them. (Ref. Deu.12:19; Deu.14:27-29; Deu.26:12-13)

c) Remember: one tenth of your income is My holy tithe, and you MUST

NOT use it for ANY unclean thing, that is, for ANYTHING, but for what I have commanded you. (Ref. Deu.26: 14)

Observe the above commandments so that you may learn to fear the Lord your God, and I will bless you and I will prosper you in everything that you do. (Ref. Deu.14:23; Deu.14:29)

In other words, God said: "Throw in a party - and I'll pay the bill. However, do not forget those whom I have called into my ministry, and those who are less fortunate than you - and I will bless you."

Matt. 23 surely does not do away with this Christian responsibility. (Rev. 14:6)
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Yet, surely we need to support the Godheads Work & not ROB Them of His means of advancing it by any support that is not scripturally sound.
And if that is not possible?? You best support yourself. (but do it Doctrinley)

--Elijah

PS: And yes, the Tithes are not offerings! Mal. 3:7-9

 

[Danus]

Tithing is OT.
Giving with a cheerful heart is NT.
For those with much the obligation doesnt end at 10%.
For those who have little we can hardly demand that they let their children starve.
NT giving is about equality so that none are without.

edit.
Since NT giving is about equality, I personally dont think its required that we all give to a church.
We can give in part to the church and some elsewhere as God leads us to.
The churches are rich enough, quite frankly. I dont think I like the idea of buying new carpet or new pews myself. I prefer to give my time to the church(in the form of a lot of webmastering on my own part) and my money to someone who needs a meal and some clothing.

Yep, I stand with this notion as well. I look for opportunities to give of time, money or talents as such opportunities arise or when I'm moved to do so. I think giving set amounts of money leads to legalistic and dangerous thinking.

 

[jasoncran]

elijah, that was before the death of christ. if we are take the ot thing that way , then we christians should aslo being teller lepers to go cleanse themselves in the jordan.

 

[ORwarriOR]

I don't feel tithes are mandatory at all. I think you should still offer to your church if you go to it when you can or if you want to, but I think it's also more important to make sure that money is going to charity. A lot of Churches just guilt you into tithes so they can improve the church, and that's so very wrong.The Church doesn't need to be fancy at all. I think it's much more important to encourage Christians to give your excess money to Charity when you can, instead of feeling guilty into putting it on the offering platter. If they let you know that the money was going to charity and stressed the importance of that I'd be ok with it, but instead I had my minister say something like "God demanded our first fruits in the old testament, so if you want to be a christian you have to obey all of God's word and not just some of it." It feels really good to give either time or money to charity. When the earthquake hit Haiti I was more than happy to contribute to the good cause, but it shouldn't stop there either. I'm currently without a job, and I have debts to pay because before I had repented all I was worried about was the next thing I wanted in which I felt I needed to make myself happy and consumed myself with material goods. I don't really care about any sort of possessions anymore other than the necessities (well that's a lie, I would really like a longboard heh, skateboards just don't move fast enough!; I suppose I should say obsess).

My point is you can't serve both God and money. When we concern ourselves with material possessions beyond what we need (it's ok to treat yourself when you can too, I'm not saying you should sell everything and give all the money away because that's not really realistic with the state of mind everyone is in right now) it takes away from our mission of love, and blinds us of those really in need.

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah here:
You say?????

But the ISSUE is what the Eternal Christ that NEVER CHANGES Documents. Heb. 12:8 + 9! (and if He were to wait upon these ones of Rev. 17:1-5 'c'hristians for Gods help, we would all be dead years ago! even twice dead.)

Matt. 23 surely does not do away with this Christian responsibility. (Rev. 14:6)
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[jasoncran]

uh, that was an ot law. so was the cleansing ritual.
do one ,you must em both. not pick and choose.

we only are to obey the ten commandments, not the rituals. tithing and those that do it are in sin. but if we call it a curse not to give then what of the poor who cant give?

he was adressing the pharisee and what they are doing wrong. he said mercy is more important then Tithing.
mercy being more important. he told them that ye tithe all manner of mint and rue. and that they forget that God wanted mercy shown, they didnt to that. that was the "weghtier manners of the law",along with judgement, and faith.

meaning that they only cared for the prestidge, and nothing really about following the law and getting souls right with the lord.

we can give all we want to the lord, if we arent saved, it dont matter.

that was he was saying the pharisee.

 

[Guest]

Matt. 23 surely does not do away with this Christian responsibility.
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

ACtually if you notice there its simply telling them what they OUGHT TO HAVE done .
Oddly enough the tithe doesnt get a whole lot of mention in the NT and when it is it typically is past tense in one way or another.

The tithe was simply a type and shadow of NT giving. It was compulsory.
Id hope that no NT follower of Jesus Christ would have be coerced to give where he has ability to give.

 

[Guest]

ijah here:
You say?????

But the ISSUE is what the Eternal Christ that NEVER CHANGES Documents. Heb. 12:8 + 9! (and if He were to wait upon these ones of Rev. 17:1-5 'c'hristians for Gods help, we would all be dead years ago! even twice dead.)

Matt. 23 surely does not do away with this Christian responsibility. (Rev. 14:6)
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Again....PAST tense..they OUGHT TO have done.
Jesus is a Jew BORN UNDER LAW, Elijah....while He preached He was dealing with Jews who were UNDER THE LAW !
His new covenant was not put into force UNTIL His death on the cross !

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
(Heb 9:15-17 KJV)

 

[GaryArnold]

Your paraphrase of God's Commandments on Tithing to the Israelites is incorrect.

Leviticus 27:30-33 (KJV)
30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD.
31And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
32And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
33He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Verse 30 is clear that all the tithe of the LAND, whether of the SEED of the land, or the FRUIT of the tree is the Lord's. That simply means CROPS, not income. In other words, FOOD.
Verse 32 - the TENTH shall be Holy - the TENTH animal is also part of the total tithe.

The definition of God's tithe, aka The Lord's Tithe is in Leviticus 27:30-33. If you change the definition, it is no longer God's Word.

The ordinances, or instructions, for God's tithe is in Numbers 18 where God commands His tithe be taken to the Levites, FOREVER.

In Deuteronomy we learn of two ADDITIONAL tithes, known as the Festival Tithe and the 3-Year Tithe or Tithe for the Poor. These two tithes are NOT what the church patterns their teaching after. The church leaders use The Lord's Tithe from Leviticus 27:30-33 and then changes the definition from crops and animals to income. Then the church leaders change God's ordinances from taking the tithe to the Levites to taking the tithe to the church.

The Lord's Tithe ended at the cross according to Hebrews 7:5,12,18. Verse 18 disannulls Numbers 18 which established the Levitical priesthood and The Lord's Tithe.

Jesus was born, lived, and died during the Old Testament. The New Testament doesn't begin until after Calvary. Jesus was speaking to those under the Old Testament law in Matthew 23:23.

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice. For others, even 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice.

 

[Guest]

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice. For others, even 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice.

Excellent post.....I love this last part. :yes
I have this on my Beliefs section of our website...

Tithing/Giving
We believe that the tithe was a mere type and shadow of giving and is not 'law' in this covenant, but is a good guideline for the church to go by. We believe that New Testament giving is not confined by numbers and laws, but in cheerfulness of heart and willingness to help our brethren in those things that they need. We believe that it is not just the first fruits that belong to God, but all the fruit, the branches, the trunk and roots and the ground as well. We believe that we are to be good stewards of the things we've borrowed from Gods library and to use them responsibly until such time as He calls on us to return them. We believe that we are accountable for the use of the money we give to others, to know that it is being used in a godly fashion, not being wasted, and that we should give to causes only where we can confirm its use.
http://www.assembly-ministries.org/beliefs.shtml

I really like your point about even 50% not being much for some. At times in my life I was making so much money that...yeah, 50% MIGHT have been enough to notice. We were wasting at least that much on meaningless garbage, to be honest.

 

[Elijah674]

uh, that was an ot law. so was the cleansing ritual.
do one ,you must em both. not pick and choose.

we only are to obey the ten commandments, not the rituals. tithing and those that do it are in sin. but if we call it a curse not to give then what of the poor who cant give?

he was adressing the pharisee and what they are doing wrong. he said mercy is more important then Tithing.
mercy being more important. he told them that ye tithe all manner of mint and rue. and that they forget that God wanted mercy shown, they didnt to that. that was the "weghtier manners of the law",along with judgement, and faith.

meaning that they only cared for the prestidge, and nothing really about following the law and getting souls right with the lord.

we can give all we want to the lord, if we arent saved, it dont matter.

that was he was saying the pharisee.

Old Testament ritual Lord! ;) (No verse saying so )
And so is eating & drinking some 'O.T. false' teaching. Just ask the blessing of you Lord, on any of the O.T. things, and then drink or eat it! 'rats'! (swine) + drinking that Jones DEAD guy's KOOL/AID!

And health laws? + Tithing laws are Jewish Lord! Gen. 7:2 & ibid. 8 are even before the flood. And Lev. 11 after the flood. But Abram even before he became Abramham did what?? Gen. 12:1-5
A Soul Winner of Gentils! NO Jew then!! (and had you ever tried to win over souls to Jesus? it is a slow process!) And we see why God CALLED him in the [FIRST PLACE] in Gen. 26:5 'BECAUSE THAT ABARAHAM [OBEYED MY VOICE], and kept [MY CHARGE, MY COMMANDMENTS, and MY STATUES,] and [MY LAWS].'

And Tithe?? Gen. 14:18-23 was long long before any Jew was introduced per/say and Moses law penned! + manny more Ps. 110:4 + Heb. 7:11 + Heb. 7:15 & on! To think that God required no VERBAL Church structure after Adam sinned is ludicrous! Gen. 3:15! Gen. 4:3-7, + the 120 years of STRIVING of the Holy Spirit along with Noah the Preacher of RIGHTOUSNESS as Peter called him! That Gospel was what?? Rev. 14:6 has it ETERNAL GOSPEL! Sure, it was God to man, and VERBAL by a VOICE at least.

And Matt. 23:3 finds these ones of today NEGATING Christ VERBAL INSPIRATION, what is New He Asks? Eccl. 3:15 NOTHING much!

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

then why doestn paul mention that.
so, the law was implied before it was given. ever think that, and you fail that the lord told them to do the other(as in the whole thing) not just the tithe, you are justifing

for example we know that joseph was taught something on the law as he refused to commit adultery,

btw many a jew consider adam and eve to be the first jews.

 

[GaryArnold]

The first time tithe is mentioned in the Bible is Abraham's tithe of pagan spoils of war, and Abraham kept NOTHING for himself. This was NOT an act of worship. The goods that Abraham gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abraham:

Genesis 14:21 (NIV) - The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.â€

Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abraham if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him and those he represented.

Genesis 14:22-24 (NIV) - 22But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, and have taken an oath 23that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the thong of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ 24I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshcol and Mamre. Let them have their share.â€

Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abraham also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom and those he represented.

Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abraham acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abraham, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abraham did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abraham's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abraham not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.

Conclusion: Abraham did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him. To follow Abraham's example, we too, would have to keep NOTHING for ourselves. That is NOT an example for Christians to follow today.

Jesus was born, lived, and died under the Old Testament. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus is talking to those under the Old Testament law. He was NOT speaking to the Christian Church.

 

[Guest]

And Matt. 23:3 finds these ones of today NEGATING Christ VERBAL INSPIRATION, what is New He Asks? Eccl. 3:15 NOTHING much!

--Elijah

Again, Elijah....the references to the tithe are pretty much all in the past tense and Jesus was a Jew under the LAW just as the others were....of course they would have obeyed the law.

You seem entirely unwilling to accept the facts that have been presented to you and apparently prefer your out of context error that handwaves away what you dont want to see....so its all on you, friend.
You WANT error and error is what youre going to get.

 

[Elijah674]

then why doestn paul mention that.
so, the law was implied before it was given. ever think that, and you fail that the lord told them to do the other(as in the whole thing) not just the tithe, you are justifing

for example we know that joseph was taught something on the law as he refused to commit adultery,

btw many a jew consider adam and eve to be the first jews.

No, I am being Heb. 6 Knowledgeable is all. We see in Acts 7:55 that Stephen was [Full of the Holy Ghost], and we see in these before verses, that Christ/God was indeed in the CHURCH in the wilderness. God spoke directly to His followers! + Gen. 6:3 ones by Noah & the Holy Spirits Striving, and Cain in person it says. (at least by a voice)

[37] This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Surely, you understand that it was the Tower of Babel (babbling!) after the flood that found the many 'tongues' incorporated? The Word say's that.. 'These are the families of the sons of Noah, after [their generations, in the nations:] and [these were divided in the EARTH AFTER THE FLOOD]. Gen. 10:32 + the first verse of the next chapter.. 'AND THE [WHOLE EARTH WAS OF ONE LANGUAGE, and ONE SPEECH].'

And if one really BELIEVED the Word of God?? They could very quickly see what was required by just believing Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 from creation on! Even down to the VERY FIRST SERMON that Adam + Eve had been given on the Lord's First 7th Day Sabbath after their being created!!

And you think that there were NO LAWS required from day one such as gravity, health, waste disposal??? See Gen. 2:15-17 + Gen. 1:29-30. It seems that some of the today ones want to legalize everything? Do we need written documention that we are not to jump off a 300ft water tower?? When God STATED FLAT OUT Clean & Unclean, there was a reason!

And most laws that were penned by Moses in a book & placed [IN THE SIDE OF THE ARK] were pertaining to the service of the Sanctuary. Gen. 3:19 & were added for the purpose of latter fullfillment.

--Elijah

 

[Guest]

Again, Elijah, the references to the TITHE are in the past tense MOST of the time.
When JESUS was ALIVE the LAW of Moses was STILL in effect until HIs death.

What YOU MUST PROVE is that the tithe for SOME REASON was carried over, friend, because there is NO NT reference that I have seen that shows that it was actually continued.

*IF* you can PROVE that the tithe was PRACTICED and COMMANDED AFTER Jesus died on the cross then you've proven your case.
If not, then youre just wasting your time and bandwidth here.

 

[Elijah674]

And Matt. 23:3 finds these ones of today NEGATING Christ VERBAL INSPIRATION, what is New He Asks? Eccl. 3:15 NOTHING much!

--Elijah

Again, Elijah....the references to the tithe are pretty much all in the past tense and Jesus was a Jew under the LAW just as the others were....of course they would have obeyed the law.

You seem entirely unwilling to accept the facts that have been presented to you and apparently prefer your out of context error that handwaves away what you dont want to see....so its all on you, friend.
You WANT error and error is what youre going to get.

Thanks for your very Born Again concept. Christ documented John 3:3 for just the past/tense Nic also you document!.
--Elijah