Tithing is a wrong practice.

[farouk]

What Jesus stated was for all.....Jew, Gentile, whomever. Those who believe are ALL part of the vine.

Peter understood this. Here is a verse from your beloved Acts

10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons

...but you can't use a verse like this and dismiss everything else that the New Testament says about Jews, Gentiles and the church.

To have one group of people Jews-Gentiles-church in one entity is not what the New Testament portrays (and you are well aware of it, I am sure).

Who are the Levites to whom the tithes, supposedly under the law, are meant to be paid?

Reverend Gentlemen? collecting tithes from Jews, pagans and born again Christians, and those who profess to be Christian but are not born again, all sitting in the same pew?

This is not how the New Testament order of things works, after Pentecost.

You see, it's a hermeneutic thing. But if people want to give freewill offerings of more than a tenth, then great. But we are not under the law now.

 

[for_his_glory]

Sorry about the length of this post, but all needs to be said as this is what I received from the Holy Spirit when I was studying about tithing in scripture.

Paul in Galatians 2:19 did not say the law was dead; he said he was dead to the law. In other words the law had no authority over him because he was under grace and law and grace cannot mix, Galatians 2:21. The law is not dead as some teach. You can live under the Law if you choose, but Galatians 3:10-13 states the law is very much alive, so alive that it carries a curse with it if violated trying to live by it.

Paul never taught tithing, in truth he taught against it. Tithing is not for the born-again believer today. Tithing was incorporated into the law given to Moses, Leviticus 27:26-34. The same law where circumcision was incorporated into, Lev. 12:1-8. We do not circumcise or sacrifice animals according to the law, so why do we tithe. Romans 10:4 For Christ are the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes. Galatians 3:10-13 for as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse and man is not justified by the law in the sight of God, but Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law.

When you tithe, if you do not tithe correctly according to the law you will be cursed with a curse, Malachi 3:8, 9. If you tithe correctly you will get blessings poured out upon you, Malachi 3:10. The blessings are not just all about money for there are many different types of blessings. In truth, if you tithe correctly the blessings of God would be overflowing in your life. Some of you, like myself, have been tithing and tithing and nothing has changed in your life. If the way tithing has been taught by man than all the ministries that have been teaching tithing for years should have so much money they would not have enough room to store it all and the banks would be overflowing with all the money you should be receiving by the way man has taught us for years.

Tithing has never been taught to be money in the scriptures. Tithing has put people under bondage and a lot of people need to be set free from the bondage law of 10%. Most people cannot afford to give 10% of their paycheck. They would not have time to count out 10% of all their perishable and nonperishable food items and bring them into Gods storehouse. The laws given to Moses in Leviticus 27 required all this. The storehouses that God was talking about was storing up food to feed the priest and scribes in the temple so they could be about those things of the Lord and not have to worry about what they should eat or how to provide food for themselves.

You can give 10% when you know the truth. When you do not know the truth and you are tithing because you are told to tithe this is called tithing under the Old Testament law. God does not honor this today. Just because we do not know the truth, this does not change God's word. We have all tithed. To this day has anybody ever showed you in the Bible where tithing is money? You have just taken mans word for it all these years.

The God I serve and read about in the Bible is not a God that would expect you to give the babies milk money to him. He would not expect your family to go without twenty dollars worth of food so you can give the last 20 to the church. Even the women with the two mites gave her last from the heart and not because she had to, but because she wanted to. If tithing meant money in today's world we would need ten or twelve banks just to hold our money. See, the over abundance is not happening. Tithing is nothing more than good intentions and good intentions do not get you your blessings. The only thing that is going to set you free is the truth of the word of God. Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith; these ought to have been done and not to leave the other undone. See, the hypocrites do these things for show, but they do not give out of love. They give because they were told to do so.

The laws that were given to Moses were for the Israelites (not the born again believer) consisted of 613 Levtical laws and they were given and changed throughout all generations for their disobedience of Gods word. These laws also included the Ten Commandments which man has separated from the 613 laws and decided to simplify the laws. Jesus left us with but only two laws to follow in Matthew 22:36-40 and that was to love. Love is what gets our blessings from God. The 613 laws have absolutely no saving power in them. In James 2:10 if you are going to follow the law and violate one part of the law you are guilty of breaking all the laws and in Galatians 3:10-14 Jesus was made an end to the curse of the law and was made the fulfillment of the law through love. When we start loving one another and be quick to forgive one another than the blessings will come pouring in and you will be giving from the heart in all the areas of your life. Give from your heart and not from bondage of what man tells you to give and then you will see the blessings of God work in your life.

 

[cleanfreak]

...but you can't use a verse like this and dismiss everything else that the New Testament says about Jews, Gentiles and the church.

hmmmm....methinks this is what you are doing. I have quoted scripture after scripture and you have only provided your opinion.

Here is some more scripture from the Apostle Paul concerning the Law......and the Gentiles

Romans 2:6-15

King James Version (KJV)

<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
<sup class="versenum">7 </sup>To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
<sup class="versenum">9 </sup>Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
<sup class="versenum">10 </sup>But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
<sup class="versenum">11 </sup>For there is no respect of persons with God.
<sup class="versenum">12 </sup>For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
<sup class="versenum">13 </sup>(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
<sup class="versenum">14 </sup>For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
<sup class="versenum">15 </sup>Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

:nod

 

[handy]

Not according to Luke 11:42
Luke 11:42

New International Version (NIV)

<SUP class=versenum>42 </SUP>“Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.


Jesus told them to pay the tithe and have the love of God

........are you saying we are not to preach the word of God?

Where does it say we are not to give our tithe in THIS day and time?

Context is everything on this.... Jesus is not only speaking to those under the Law but He's speaking to those who put themselves forth as being superior in keeping the Law above everyone else. This is a rebuke, not a command to the Church.

The reference to the "mint, rue and garden herbs" is a reference to their keeping the letter of the Law... but ignoring the over all spirit of the Law.

However, again, this is to the Pharisees... a woe to them nonetheless...

The Church however is not under the Law, but under grace. Christ fulfilled the Law when He kept it perfectly and when He died. See Romans, chapters 7 and 8. Also the Book of Galatians. I could pull several texts out, but you're probably familiar with them anyway... If we are seeking to justify ourselves by following the Law (which tithing was a part of... giving predates the tithe and continues after it) then Christ's sacrifice has no effect on us...

 

[handy]

hmmmm....methinks this is what you are doing. I have quoted scripture after scripture and you have only provided your opinion.

Here is some more scripture from the Apostle Paul concerning the Law......and the Gentiles

Romans 2:6-15

King James Version (KJV)

<SUP class=versenum>6 </SUP>Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
<SUP class=versenum>7 </SUP>To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
<SUP class=versenum>8 </SUP>But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
<SUP class=versenum>9 </SUP>Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
<SUP class=versenum>10 </SUP>But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
<SUP class=versenum>11 </SUP>For there is no respect of persons with God.
<SUP class=versenum>12 </SUP>For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
<SUP class=versenum>13 </SUP>(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
<SUP class=versenum>14 </SUP>For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
<SUP class=versenum>15 </SUP>Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

:nod

I think if you are trying to use this as a basis of thinking that Christians are held to following the Law.. then you are misunderstanding the context. When we do, by nature the things of the Law... then we are simply showing that we have that moral sense instilled into us...

But, I challenge you to find a mass amount of Gentiles... or even one... who instinctively, without being hammered by either rabbis or preachers to give 10%, that do it because deep down inside they understand that giving 10% of the first fruits and the first born male etc. etc. etc. (don't make the mistake that one just wrote a check for 10% of his gross income before taxes, the Law on tithing went much further than that!!!) is something that must be done.

All over the world we find that murder, that lying, even violating whatever locally stands as marriage is taboo... those things really did become a "law unto themselves".... and, on judgement day, those people will be judged accordingly. The Jews were to keep God's Law... but as Paul further went on to say in Romans, the law was only binding while both parties to it lived. Since Christ died and since we join with Him in His death... the Law is not binding upon us.

 

[farouk]

hmmmm....methinks this is what you are doing. I have quoted scripture after scripture and you have only provided your opinion.

Here is some more scripture from the Apostle Paul concerning the Law......and the Gentiles

Romans 2:6-15

King James Version (KJV)

<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
<sup class="versenum">7 </sup>To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
<sup class="versenum">9 </sup>Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
<sup class="versenum">10 </sup>But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
<sup class="versenum">11 </sup>For there is no respect of persons with God.
<sup class="versenum">12 </sup>For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
<sup class="versenum">13 </sup>(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
<sup class="versenum">14 </sup>For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
<sup class="versenum">15 </sup>Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

:nod

Where does this teach tithing?

I'm dispensational; you're probably Reformed; to some extent, then, it is likely to be a dialogue of the deaf.

Blessings.

 

[cleanfreak]

Context is everything on this.... Jesus is not only speaking to those under the Law but He's speaking to those who put themselves forth as being superior in keeping the Law above everyone else. This is a rebuke, not a command to the Church.

The reference to the "mint, rue and garden herbs" is a reference to their keeping the letter of the Law... but ignoring the over all spirit of the Law.

However, again, this is to the Pharisees... a woe to them nonetheless...

The Church however is not under the Law, but under grace. Christ fulfilled the Law when He kept it perfectly and when He died. See Romans, chapters 7 and 8. Also the Book of Galatians. I could pull several texts out, but you're probably familiar with them anyway... If we are seeking to justify ourselves by following the Law (which tithing was a part of... giving predates the tithe and continues after it) then Christ's sacrifice has no effect on us...

I see this is getting nowhere. I will write my check to the Church this Sunday, but I will not put any where on there "tithe, giving, offering" or anything.

The amount will include a tenth of what I made this week, an offering to help out the missionaries, and perhaps even a little more for alms for those who are in need.

Of course the treasurer will need to know how to disperse those funds. Perhaps the little blue envelope does have a purpose

 

[farouk]

I see this is getting nowhere. I will write my check to the Church this Sunday, but I will not put any where on there "tithe, giving, offering" or anything.

The amount will include a tenth of what I made this week, an offering to help out the missionaries, and perhaps even a little more for alms for those who are in need.

Of course the treasurer will need to know how to disperse those funds. Perhaps the little blue envelope does have a purpose

It's great to be motivated to generosity.

But the church treasurer is not a Levite in the Old Testament sense of the word.

(A dispensational point.)

Blessings.

 

[handy]

@ Handy:

So where does it say that neglecting the tithe is no longer robbing God?

I'm not speaking of penalties here (as to what happens to one who does not). I'm merely saying that the tithe was the Law and is still in effect, hence the principle of it. Heck, in the millennium the nations will come up to Jerusalem to keep the feast of Tabernacles, a feast in the Law.

Christ did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. The Law does not change. That, in turn, when one is begotten in the Spirit will want to emulate the Law, and the principles therein.

Christ did come to fulfill the Law

... and fulfill it He did, fully and completely through His life of walking in the Law perfectly then dying upon the Cross.

Once He died upon the cross... the Law was fulfilled.

<SUP>1</SUP> Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? <SUP class=versenum id=en-NASB-28094>2</SUP> For the married woman is bound by law to her usband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NASB-28095>3</SUP> So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NASB-28096>4</SUP> Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

 

[handy]

I sad to see that it's not getting anywhere... is there something wrong with my responses? Are they not showing a fuller context to how the Law does or doesn't affect the Christian?

 

[cleanfreak]

I sad to see that it's not getting anywhere... is there something wrong with my responses? Are they not showing a fuller context to how the Law does or doesn't affect the Christian?

no disrespect Handy.

I have been a Christian for a long time, just as you have. I been a deacon, trustee, and treasurer for many of those years. I have seen the full effect of tithe payers and what it means for the Kingdom of God. We, at the Church, do not pressure anyone to give of their tithe and by no means condemn them by the law if they do not.

We do teach them the benefits of giving as shown throughout the Bible. That is why I posted about what it is actually called. This generation really does not know what the word "tithe" actually means, but they still give "as unto the Lord" and most of the time it is ten percent. In essence they are keeping the Law so to speak and really do not even know it.

Is that such a bad thing?....that a Christian would want to keep a Law of the Old Testament?

 

[tim-from-pa]

This generation really does not know what the word "tithe" actually means, but they still give "as unto the Lord" and most of the time it is ten percent.

Good point, and one showing the extent of bible illiteracy lest we "offend" someone.

Just two (short) generations ago, my grandparents who were born around the turn of the century and their fellow church members would have been aghast if anyone considered themselves seriously a Christian and did not tithe. That went without saying. I'm not sure what changed --- probably WW2 time frame and the baby-boomer generation after them. I think the parents indulged too much and that's when people started slacking up on the tithing IMO. I'm going to research that now as that's an interesting question, although I'm just stating things as I perceived them here in Pa Dutch country. It may have been different elsewhere.

 

[Comprehender]

Imagine what research & hopefully effective help could be given to the almost 1 Billion chronically hungry - if all churches followed the instruction in Deut 14:28-29 by living the lower law & sharing 1/3 of donations with those in need! Of course, Christ would have given much more - his all, as he did.

I believe in sharing with good causes... & 1/10 of one's Increase/interest (NOT income) is appropriate.
Let me explain why scriptures NEVER state tithing is based on "income" but rather state: tithing is based on increase.
2 men receive the same income.
1 man lives with his parents & has no bills at all - so all of his income is "increase."
The 2nd man is the sole provider of a family of 9 & has plenty of bills - with no increase left.
If a church leader were to demand the same tithing amount based on income from both of these men, it would cause the 2nd man and his family to be poor, defeating one of the main purpose of tithing... to love others as ourselves.

 

[felix]

Is that such a bad thing?....that a Christian would want to keep a Law of the Old Testament?

It is abomination!

If you use Old Covenant, you go to the Father as a divorced wife. But if you use the New Covenant, you go to the Father as Bride to His Son.

Sent from mobile.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is abomination!

The reason you are keeping the law determines whether or not it's anathema or not.

IMO, one of the most misguided and uneducated things the early church decided...thinking Paul 's teaching meant we are categorically not allowed to keep the law under any and all circumstances.

 

[felix]

I am not under the law. Are you?

Sent from mobile.

 

[felix]

The reason you are keeping the law determines whether or not it's anathema or not.

IMO, one of the most misguided and uneducated things the early church decided...thinking Paul 's teaching meant we are categorically not allowed to keep the law under any and all circumstances.

We are not under the old covenant (Heb 8:13) but new covenant with better promise (Heb 8:6). God married Israel (Isa 54:5) but divorced because of Israel didn’t keep the old covenant and involved in adultery (Jer 3:8). Now, God cannot take Israel or His people back (Jer 3:1). So, God sent His Son as an atonement (Eze 16:62-63) to wash the sins of His people (1 Jn 2:2) and make them as a bride (Rev 21:2) to marry them (Mark 2:19-20) through a new covenant (Heb 9:15).
If you follow any of the old covenant, you go to the Father as a divorced wife which is an abomination (Deu 24:1-4). So, you must go to the Father through Jesus Christ (John 14:6) who is the only way using the new covenant as a bride (Rev 21:9).

The 10 commandments (Exod 20) which are the words of the old covenant (Exod 34:28). The law of commandments are abolished by Jesus Christ (Eph 2:15) and we are not under this law but under grace (Rom 6:14).

So, Do you follow 10 commandments? do you give tithe? do you follow Sabbath? It’s abomination to God.

Christ did not gave us 10 commandments in new covenant, but 1 new commandment (John 13:34), that is, to love one another.
There is no tithe in new covenant but only freewill offering (Luke 21:3), i.e, give to God whatever your heart desires and nothing is demanded out of you. (note: do you know that tithe is only for Jews to give to Levites because they did not have inheritance (Num 18:20-21) in the land of Israel and God is their inheritance? Giving tithe to church or pastors is unbiblical).
According to new covenant, we have a future rest (Heb 4) with Christ. Sabbath is about ‘rest’ and not ‘worship’ (Exod 31:15). Following Sabbath, simply means working out the law to be justified by law which scripture calls ‘estranged from Christ’ and ‘fallen from grace’ (Gal 5:4).
(Ref: blog.fc.id.au)

I have backed my statements "following Old covenant is an abomination" from Scripture. If you think you must follow the law when New Covenant has come, then please prove from Scripture.

 

[Pigeon]

I've seen this on both sides of the radical spectrum. People who think Tithing is evil and people who think the more you tithe the more God will reward you with physical stuff. Prosperity Christianity/Theology I believe. Which is greedy and very misguided.

I remember hearing a sermon online a few months ago about tithing. Let me see if I can find it...

Edit: Ah here it is.

http://fbc2010sermons.posterous.com/darrell-johnson-approaches-a-touchy-topic-hea

Maybe we can draw new discussion from here?

 

[felix]

people who think the more you tithe the more God will reward you with physical stuff

How can you tithe more? Can you please explain?

Do not mix tithing and giving. No here is arguing about giving but "tithing". I hope you understand the difference.

 

[Pigeon]

How can you tithe more? Can you please explain?

Do not mix tithing and giving. No here is arguing about giving but "tithing". I hope you understand the difference.

Yes my dear friend with the thick know-it-All glasses I do know the difference. Tithing is giving one-tenth. Giving is anything other than that. But still I know of people who "tithe extra" out of pride.