Tithing?

[Norman]

I'm a descendant of Jacob and I don't tithe.
I give.

 

[Natha]

How do you identify the most genuine Christians in a church? Why, by the financial records, of course., especially if they're tithers. But is this a Biblical standard? Let's have some courteous responses, Gang!

YES ,... THIS IS an big challenge for few Christians...
As a minister in ministry, i have noticed the people struggle to give offerings in Church... Here we can see few points ..
Elders / Minister :: They need to maintain the accounts.. Accountability is very need .. very very need,,,, It is very important ...
1st Option ..... Just GIVE TO GOD : ....... We are not giving offering or tithe to human.. We are just giving it to God.. First our heart need to determined to give to God.. If local church management is doing wrong,, please leave that matter to God,.., They need to have accountability in money matters.. so please do not think more on giving.. Trust in God and give it in Church...
2nd Option .... If you found the mistakes and wrong actions in using funds in Church, you may need to make sure on that matter.. And first please talk to them in person. Do not argue before all church people.. Please honor them and ask them with love.. If they are understanding or willing, you can fix the things..
If they are not hearing.. you need to determine by comparing word of God.. later please take your right decision in your heart.. But do not insult them. Please take a decision to use your valueble tithe or offerings in right area...
Please do not get angry and please do all with peaceful heart..
In my ministry i am doing same... i am giving full freedom to believers on giving matters...

 

[Norman]

I believe that whoever we are, we need to be fully committed to the Lord...look what He did for us! Money's just part of it, though essential for one who's called by the Lord.

 

[Edward]

Tithing is also a pre-sage (shadow) of NT doctrine, just as circumcision, dietary laws, feast keeping, ect. were.
But now we give all of ourselves to God, instead of just 10%.
All we have is from God, and it is His to have again with our thanksgiving for all we are.

That's exactly right, it is all now. We were bought with a price so the Lord owns us now so all we have is His. We are mere stewards of His house. (His kids are on loan to us!)

That's enough to change a man's whole perspective, lol.

 

[Edward]

I believe that whoever we are, we need to be fully committed to the Lord...look what He did for us! Money's just part of it, though essential for one who's called by the Lord.

Tithing teaches one to realize that you really can live just fine without chasing the dollars. Some get by on no money at all.

 

[Norman]

All that I am and all that I'm not
For such a high price, with His blood I am bought

This should tell us that we are very valuable!

 

[Vince]

I just finished my 2021 accounts. My wife and I are retired Americans, living in Mexico. We have no income other than Social Security and a tiny pension, plus our retirement accounts. And we tithe.

It doesn't happen every year, but we have more money today we had one year ago.

 

[Hopeful]

I just finished my 2021 accounts. My wife and I are retired Americans, living in Mexico. We have no income other than Social Security and a tiny pension, plus our retirement accounts. And we tithe.

It doesn't happen every year, but we have more money today we had one year ago.

God is gracious, isn't He?
Feliz anno nuevo!!!

 

[Golgotha]

I disagree, it is how they love and care for others that shows their commitment to Jesus.

So do you judge believers by how much they give or don't give in their commitment to Christ?

How does one avoid the standard of judgment of keeping that commitment to Christ?

By not being under it any more but instead live by faith in Jesus Christ to help you to follow Him. So believers should ask Jesus for forgiveness and to be set free from all yokes of bondages so they can follow Jesus, trusting Him to help them to follow Him by the same grace of God they are saved by, which is by faith in Jesus Christ.

There are rich people in most churches who out give the poorer but more devoted believer.

Their giving is really between them and God. Just as it should be for the rest of us.

If we have to give, how can that be cheerful giving?

If a family member is in need, but we ignore them and give to the church, how is that the love of Christ?

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

This was written in regards to widows in distress that have no family members to take care of them for why they should be taken care of by the church, but when they do have Christian family members, they should look after their parents or their grandparents or their siblings that are widows in distress. Then if they have anything left over from what they normally give to the church, they can, if it can be done secretly. These days I find it is hard for any church to provide a way for members to give in secret. I can see a box with a slot for anonymous donations, but who does it?

I am churchless right now, but I did find that as a problem when I was going to church.

Often a casual observer will not know just how much is being done by a faithful Christian.

Do you ever wonder if giving in secret is a better way to give?

Matthew 6:1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

It isn't wrong to get tax deductions for giving to charity but as Jesus said, they already got their rewards.

So should believers give the way Jesus teaches us to? I do not see how but we can ask the Lord to help us to give in secret, but barring an opportunity, one can give without expecting credit for tax deductions as not getting a reward from men in doing it.

But again, it is not a sin to get credit for tax deductions, but I do wonder how we can apply giving in secret today the way Jesus wants us to.

 

[Edward]

These days I find it is hard for any church to provide a way for members to give in secret. I can see a box with a slot for anonymous donations, but who does it?

When I lived in Colorado Springs that's how my church had it set it. Wooden lockboxes all over the sanctuary and lobby and they never did pass a plate for offerings while I was there or ask for donations. They just had faith for church needs.

 

[Who Me]

So do you judge believers by how much they give or don't give in their commitment to Christ?

How does one avoid the standard of judgment of keeping that commitment to Christ?

Showing love has nothing to do with how much cash one gives.

The mark of the early church was that they cared for the unlovely as well as each other.

These days I find it is hard for any church to provide a way for members to give in secret. I can see a box with a slot for anonymous donations, but who does it?

Why, if it is done secretly how would you know?

One very simple way is to asign the offering taken at a communion service to the 'help those in need' fund.
Let the congragation know it and collect that offering. Church leaders are able to draw on that fund to help those in need and members can suggest those they think are in need. Accountability is between the two leaders and church treasurer.

 

[Edward]

So do you judge believers by how much they give or don't give in their commitment to Christ?

That has nothing to do with it, the amount. But did they give from their extra money or did they give from their sustenance? That has a lot to do with it.

How does one avoid the standard of judgment of keeping that commitment to Christ?

Why would you want to avoid it? The Lord set forth 10% as a minimum for those needing to keep score.

Besides, you are to give in secret and don't even let your left hand (wife) know what your right hand is doing in this area.

 

[Golgotha]

Showing love has nothing to do with how much cash one gives.

Other than giving alms in view of people is how you had received your reward from men already. Jesus did teach a better way to give when following Christ since He did say not to do it before men, but rather secretly;

Matthew 6:1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

The mark of the early church was that they cared for the unlovely as well as each other.

Well, James addressed the abuse of the poor.

James 2: 1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

The church at Corinth were known for their charity outreach and support of missionaries in the field, but they were instructed to give without the church knowing what if any was given at all since it was better God & the giver as He does love a cheerful giver.

The mark of the church at Corinth was that God was providing what the church needed and to operate on in supporting others that are poor as well as support missionaries in the field. That is God's indescribable gift to the church as He raises up cheerful givers thus providing for the church.

2 Corinthians 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: 9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. 10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) 11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God. 12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God; 13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men; 14 And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you. 15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

Why, if it is done secretly how would you know?

I have been unable to when I was going to my church. I did recall a suggest box at one time but they stopped doing that and had it collected when the plate offerings go down the pews. Maybe somebody thought it was a donation box and had stolen it? I dunno. It was in view of the streets by huge glass paneled entrance.

One very simple way is to asign the offering taken at a communion service to the 'help those in need' fund.
Let the congragation know it and collect that offering. Church leaders are able to draw on that fund to help those in need and members can suggest those they think are in need. Accountability is between the two leaders and church treasurer.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Golgotha]

That has nothing to do with it, the amount. But did they give from their extra money or did they give from their sustenance? That has a lot to do with it.

Seeing how it is between God & the giver, it really is nobody else's business what they give if at all since it is on God to provide for the church by raising up cheerful givers.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Why would you want to avoid it? The Lord set forth 10% as a minimum for those needing to keep score.

The Lord commanded no such thing in the New Testament.

Besides, you are to give in secret and don't even let your left hand (wife) know what your right hand is doing in this area.

I agree, but I do so by faith in Jesus Christ and not by keeping any commitment or promise to God otherwise how can I be a cheerful giver when I have to give in keeping that commitment or promise to God? So better to be set free from all yokes of bondages and rely in Jesus Christ all the time for following Him, including when to give and when not to, thus having that liberty when life takes a turn & one is jobless where a pledge to give a certain amount every Sunday no matter what, hurts the family.

1 Timothhy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Although the widow with 2 mites gave all that she has and was cheerful about it too, but no one should preach from the pulpit to arm twist anyone to give when they are jobless and poor, especially coming from a pastor that has an income, health insurance, and a pension plan to retire on. That pastor has no business asking a poor family for keeping up with their tithings or their pledges of giving as if he wants them to apply faith in God to provide when he is not leading by example but his expectation is on the people in keeping up with their tithings & their pledges for giving rather than on God to raise up cheerful givers.

But I digress. Best to lean on Jesus for help in giving secretly if that is at all possible but if not, then for His help to know how much in order to give cheerfully in these latter days if at all.

 

[Edward]

The Lord commanded no such thing in the New Testament.

You are correct in that there is no 10% Tithe in the new covenant. But we know that the Lord does not change so it doesn't matter even though the Lord will still honor the Tithes and open the floodgates of blessing upon us if we do tithe. He said this is ok to test Him on this, so feel free to test Him. I did and I was blessed.

Nevertheless Brother, with putting the new covenant in effect the consideration to that Jesus purchased with a price. The price of His blood and life...henceforth Jesus was given all things on the earth and in the heavens...
So it is not a 10% Tithe now...He owns all of it! Did He not purchase us? Of course He did! Didn't you give your life to the Lord Jesus and become born again? So if you gave your life to him, it belongs to Him now and you are but a mere steward of it. It's all His so we best not mismanage it, lol!

 

[WIP]

Other than giving alms in view of people is how you had received your reward from men already.

If others see you give, it is not a bad thing. Jesus was speaking about the motive and not the action itself when He said, "Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them." And "Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men."
Words of Jesus quoted from NKJV, Matthew, chapter 6.

If one gives in order "to be seen," said person is giving in order to bring glory to himself rather than to God.

 

[Golgotha]

You are correct in that there is no 10% Tithe in the new covenant. But we know that the Lord does not change so it doesn't matter even though the Lord will still honor the Tithes and open the floodgates of blessing upon us if we do tithe. He said this is ok to test Him on this, so feel free to test Him. I did and I was blessed.

Nevertheless Brother, with putting the new covenant in effect the consideration to that Jesus purchased with a price. The price of His blood and life...henceforth Jesus was given all things on the earth and in the heavens...
So it is not a 10% Tithe now...He owns all of it! Did He not purchase us? Of course He did! Didn't you give your life to the Lord Jesus and become born again? So if you gave your life to him, it belongs to Him now and you are but a mere steward of it. It's all His so we best not mismanage it, lol!

Psalm 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Seems God places the greater emphasis on something else.

 

[Edward]

Psalm 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Seems God places the greater emphasis on something else.

What would that have to do with Tithing?

I'm just telling you what I know about a 10% tithe not being in the new covenant, and the reason why. You were purchased with a price bro, so all your paychecks are belong to HIM.

Truth.

Even your kids belong to Him. They're just on loan to you!

 

[Golgotha]

What would that have to do with Tithing?

Tithing is where you have to give. If we were to talk about taxes, 10% is a lot to ask from the poor than the rich. So asking the poor to tithe is telling them they "have" to give. Try to imagine them being a cheerful giver when they need it to take care of their families' needs ( not wants ).

I'm just telling you what I know about a 10% tithe not being in the new covenant, and the reason why. You were purchased with a price bro, so all your paychecks are belong to HIM.

Truth.

I'd say the reason tithing is not in the New Covenant is because it is no longer required. To say everything belongs to Him in respect to giving, that can be applied in 2 ways;

Application #1 Since everything belongs to Him, then we are to give everything to Him. They certainly can pull verses out like;

Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

But that verse would be taken out of context of Luke 14:25-35 which is about being ready to leave all that he has on earth when the Bridegroom comes at the rapture.

Or this one where in Acts a church or a cult would apply what you have said for everyone to follow by example;

Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. 36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, 37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

And yet there is such a thing as a rich Christian;

1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

So if the rich did as the new believers did in Acts 4:32-37, he would no longer be considered rich then, but as every other Christian in his church or cult. So obviously, not every believer nor church does that.

Even your kids belong to Him. They're just on loan to you!

Application #2 Then in that case, no one really "have" to give anything since we are not giving our kids to Him via a church or a cult.

But yet we are exhorted to give to the poor in having the love of God in us.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? 18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

It does not have to become fundamental when it comes to charities, since it is written about beholding an actual brother in need in meeting that need yourself rather than through a middle man or a charity.

But cheerful givers do give to God through a church too, but because they want to; not because they have to for God loves a cheerful giver.

So regarding everything belongs to God, then He does not need it if He already has it, right? So kind of not really a saying we should be throwing around because it is misleading, especially in how it can be misapplied too, even though it cannot align with the whole of scripture.

children belong to God, and yes it can be seen as on a loan since they could die as in the Lord gives and the Lord takes away, but yet as they are a loan, Gd expects interests while under our care as a loan, and raise them up by the Word of God, and that means not leaving it to a church to do that but at home with their own Bible studies, but who does that in earning interests for God on that loan?

 

[Who Me]

Other than giving alms in view of people is how you had received your reward from men already. Jesus did teach a better way to give when following Christ since He did say not to do it before men, but rather secretly;a strange reply to mycomment that the a out of cash one gi es is no erasure of how one ,over.

Christian giving is not limited to cash.

How will.i gare you to give of your time?
Ti e spent doing unseen necessary work that prepares Forfarshire orservice.
Examp,e. We havea o ce a week mother and todlerbroupthztmeets in the church building.
But unless the chairs are moved and later put back, unless the toys are got out and put back, neither this outreach into the community orchurchworship would happen.
A team of Faithfull servants put and rep.ace the chairs, ditto the toys. An unsung yet vital tasks.

How does your church organise thesesort of tasks like a taxi service, visiting, odd jobs, laundry, shopping for house bound, hospital trips, visitation,to mention a few unsung tasks that always need doing and few m ow about.