C 4 C wrote,
Lecoop, to be totally impartial, or unbiased as a (nondenominational) prophecy teacher, etc towards your (scriptural understanding &) view(s), I allotted you ample time to properly analyze, edit &, or correct the error(s) contained within your post(s) prior to my reply, but unfortunately to no avail, therefore I will proceed with my evaluation of your statement(s) relative to the Bible scripture(s).
Interesting, you believe that, Satan do not emulate God, the rider on the white horse is Jesus Christ & not the Antichrist, etc even though the Bible scripture(s) itself proves you're wrong & your two below quotes show that you've unequivocally & successfully contradicted yourself (without realizing it prior).
Does Satan attempt to emulate God?
2 Thes 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Of course he does. He will walk into the temple, and show himself as God. Where in Revelation would we find any reference to this? The white horse? No, of course not. The timing is off. God shows a white horse because this rider is to represent righteousness. No, we will find the deceitfullness of the antichrist in chapter 13, long after chapter 6. The antichrist will not be revealed as the antichrist until he commits the abomination as Paul shows us above. That event will be at the midpoint of the 70th week. Very few will recognize him as the antichrist until that time. Therefore, what C 4 C is trying to get us to believe, is that Rev chapter 13, is about the same time frame as the first seal. Nothing could be much farther from the truth. How can we have the midpoint of the week, before the week is started? C 4 C has again attempted to re-arrange the book. His theory is then, immediately suspect, and will be proven wrong.
Next, I never said that the rider on the white horse was Jesus. Jesus is at the time, in heaven, breaking the first seal! No, what I said was the white horse was to represent the church of Jesus Christ, sent into the world, to make disciples of all nations. There can be no doubt that the intent of the auther is that this rider is righteousness, due to the white horse. The horse itself will represent warfare. The ONLY righteous entity on earth after Jesus ascends to heaven, is the church. There can, therefore, be no doubt that the first seal is to represent the church; Jesus' body on the earth.
The bow is not a (rain) bow. That is adding to the word, and totally unnecessary. The word for bow is "toxon." This is the only time this word is used in the bible. From this root word, we get "toxic." In classical Greek literature, this word alway meant a bow, used to shoot arrows. Why? Because it was the practice then, to put something "toxic" on the arrow! It is apparent that Mr. Strong missed it here, writing that this bow was a piece of cloth used, as we would today, to tie around a present. No, this is not that kind of bow. So why no arrows? Because the weapons of our warfare are spiritual weapons. If we dig real deep, we find that the root Greek word, means "to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed), of the earth bringing forth its fruits. This is exactly what the great commandment to the church was all about: bringing in the harvest.
When we consider the timing of this first horse; then the discription, it is very clear that this cannot possibly represent evil, or anything not righteous. To attempt to make this first rider the antichrist, is just poor exegesis. if this rider is forced (by poor exegesis) to emulate the beast, then we have to explain this:
Rev 6:8 ....And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
If the first rider is forced into the role of the antichrist, it follows that the other horsemen follow him. This limits the antichrist to only 1/4th of the earth! This disagrees with John:
Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him
We read here that the true antichrist will NOT be limited, but will have authority over the entire planet. This alone should prove to the astute bible student, that this white horse and rider does NOT represent the antichrist. Now, let's look closely at this phrase:
Rev 6:8 ...And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword,
and with hunger,
and with death
Which horse carries the
sword? Of course, the red horse. Which horse represents
famine and
hunger? Of course, the black horse. Which rider was named
death? Of course,the pale horse. An astute bible student will realize that this leaves the white horse out of the mix. And of course, we know he is NOT with these others, for he is righteous, representing the church, while they are ministers of evil, trying to stop the church.
your two below quotes show that you've unequivocally & successfully contradicted yourself (without realizing it prior).
Lecoop on Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:36 pm
By the way, what part of God's wrath would be involved in martyring His own saints? (how silly can some people be?)
Of course, any beginning reader would understand that God would not be angry at His own saints, and would not martyr them!
I asked a question, which, by the way, you did not answer: "what part of God's wrath would be involved in martyring His own saints?" It is silly to even think that God would be involved in martying His own body.
Lecoop on Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:24 am
please explain to the readers how God's wrath would be shown, in the death of martyrs?
My next comment is not a contridiction: C 4 C has tried to get us to believe that the seals are a part of God's wrath, and if so, then necessarily, this 5th seal would be a part of the wrath of God. We are speaking of the 5th seal; the martyrs of the church. It is not God's wrath that gets them martyred, it is the wrath of satan, as the god of this world. The wrath of God will come, but it will not come until the 7th seal, about 2000 years after this 5th seal was broken. Alas, C 4 c has not yet explained how this 5th seal can be His wrath.
1. It's obvious that the rider on the white horse is not Jesus Christ, but is in fact the Antichrist when any individual(s) carefully read & analyze exactly what the first horsemen (or, angel) of the Apocalypse is given & what his assignment(s) is upon the Earth.
Not obvious at all, since it is totally against the entire rest of the bible. C 4 C would have us believe that the antichrist was producing this vison John is seeing. Yes, of course the antichrist would wish to paint himself white, as a disguise. BUT - this vision is coming from Father God, who has no desire to hide, or confuse, but to reveal! To Father God, white was, is and always will represent righteousness. John, guided by the Holy Spirit, used the color white 16 other times in Revelation, each time to represent righteousness. It is preposterous to think that the Holy Spirit would use white just this once, to represent evil. If the readers will note, when the Holy Spirit colors the antichrist, he is crimson red!
2. Also more valid proof that, the rider on the white horse is not Jesus Christ, but is in fact the Antichrist is because, the battle of Armageddon do not begin with the opening of the first seal, because Jesus Christ can not do battle with the beast when He has even returned via His second coming:
chronology
Revelation 19:11-21
The Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 19:19-21
Battle Of Armageddon.
This is error, compounding itself. No one has said that the first horse was Jesus, so this entire argument is what is called a "non sequitur." This argument does not follow. Of course Jesus does not come back until chapter 19. Any beginning bible student should know this. However, every beginning bible student should know the great commandment: "go ye..." The first horse is to represent the church of Jesus christ, sent out to make disciples of all nations. This is the author's intent. It fits the timing and it fits the discription.
Let's analyze exactly what the four angels bound in the river Euphrates assignment(s) is upon the Earth (Revelation 9:14-15) during the tribulation period.
Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Now, one of the (dictionary) defintion(s) for the word slay means to "kill" & since the black angel (or, horsemen) is last, any individual(s) can easily conclude that the combined effort(s) of all four angels & God's Wrath being unleashed upon the inhabitants of Earth that (a minimum, or) at least (6 billion + 3 =) 2 billion people (guaranteed) will be killed.
NOTE: The four angels are not loosed from the great river Euphrates to give-out candy, ice cream, their cell phone numbers, stock tips, lottery numbers, etc to the inhabitants of Earth.
Again, we have a "non sequitur." These four angels have absolutely nothing to do with the riders on the horses, nor the horses. These riders rode out, at the very beginning of the church age. These four angels are ready and waiting for the right time, to fulfill their assignment: to kill 1/3 of the human race. This event will occur just before the midpoint of the week. The 7th trumpet "marks" the exact midpoint of the week, and this trumpet will come before that.
Why do you say that 2 billion people must die at the 4th seal? I think you have misread it.
Coop
To alleviate tedious redundancy, it's a imperative necessity that you review my statement above which coincides with your above quoted (statement).
FYI: I did not rearrange God's chronology & John just like the rest of God's servants (from Genesis to Revelation) always (& rightfully) have absolutely no emphasis put on them & if you do not believe me, go & ask the Father, the Son &, or the Holy Spirit which person all attention & emphasis is & must be placed on.
A careful bible student will recognize the difference between these two statements:
power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth
for to slay the third part of men.
In the first phrase above, we see that John is speaking of territory on the earth, not human lives. In the second, he is speaking of human lives.
Coop
