Bible Study To repent of all sworn vows

[jonathanbrickman0000]

We have it that the Lord has said:

33 Again, you heard that it was said to the ancients: You will not swear falsely, but you will pay to the LORD your oaths; 34 but I say to you not to swear at all; neither by Heaven, because it is the throne of God, 35 nor by the earth, because it is His footstool, nor by Jerusalem, because it is [the] city of [the] great King, 36 nor may you swear by your head, because you are not able to make one hair white or black; 37 but let your word be, Yes, Yes, No, No, and that which is more than these is of the evil [one].
Matthew 5:33-37

This startled me tremendously the first time I saw it...and then I forgot it, and this happened at least two or three more times over the last twenty years or so. Each time, the impact was greater, and each time, the Word brought me further from much and many, and closer to Him.

This is because so much, currently and much more historically, within churches and outside, is defined by sworn vows, which are all of evil. The impact of His Word in this regard is great and terrible, terrible in the old "awesome, humbling, and a bit frightening" sense. We have it written that at least one person called Apostle did not repent in this, at least for a while. To publicly say and promote those words of Christ the Lord would have gotten us executed possibly anywhere where church-folk and feudal-folk ruled, four hundred years ago. Even today, many of those that claim Christ but live by sworn vows will do everything they can to suppress us. Although in some places there are still courthouse allowances for we who will affirm but not swear.

One can even trace divisions within the Church of the Lord, to the content of many sworn vows, and in addition, to secret vows, personal allegiances and determinations which likewise are of evil.

But the benefits of living those words the Lord has said, are more tremendous then all struggles. Anyone have examples to share?

 

[Vinny37]

We have it that the Lord has said:

This startled me tremendously the first time I saw it...and then I forgot it, and this happened at least two or three more times over the last twenty years or so. Each time, the impact was greater, and each time, the Word brought me further from much and many, and closer to Him.

This is because so much, currently and much more historically, within churches and outside, is defined by sworn vows, which are all of evil. The impact of His Word in this regard is great and terrible, terrible in the old "awesome, humbling, and a bit frightening" sense. We have it written that at least one person called Apostle did not repent in this, at least for a while. To publicly say and promote those words of Christ the Lord would have gotten us executed possibly anywhere where church-folk and feudal-folk ruled, four hundred years ago. Even today, many of those that claim Christ but live by sworn vows will do everything they can to suppress us. Although in some places there are still courthouse allowances for we who will affirm but not swear.

One can even trace divisions within the Church of the Lord, to the content of many sworn vows, and in addition, to secret vows, personal allegiances and determinations which likewise are of evil.

But the benefits of living those words the Lord has said, are more tremendous then all struggles. Anyone have examples to share?

Dt.6:13 enjoined oath-swearing to be based on Yahweh himself and thus grounded in Yahwism, and there is no higher name than God’s. By the C1 there was widespread abuse of pledging one’s word (oath-swearing), misselling one’s word, which Jesus rebuked. Jas.5:12 too attacked the idea of gradated oath-swearing (by heaven/by earth/by whatever), that swearing to the truth by invoking certain witnesses was only as good as the witnesses invoked and so allowed you to lie.

Both Anabaptists and Jehovah’s Witnesses have assumed a literalism to Jesus’ words here (Mt.5:33-7), without seeing then in Jesus’ C1 context. Where the literalism of Dt.6:13 was so abused and invoking Yahweh’s name endangered the rank and file (a cultural taboo), the purpose of Dt.6:13 (covenant truthfulness) was best fulfilled by dropping formal sworn oaths, period, even as the snake of Moses was abolished by Hezekiah. Per D A Carson, “Where oaths are not being used evasively and truthfulness is not being threatened, it is not immediately obvious they require such unqualified abolition” (Matthew (EBC), 2010:386).

To help people believe (Heb.6:17), Yahweh has oath-sworn (Gen.9:9-11; Lk.1:72-5; Ps.16:10/Ac.2:27-31). Paul himself spoke under oath-witness (Rm.1:9; 2 Cor.1:23; Php.1:8; 1 Ths.2:5), though I think you deem him thus mistaken. Yeshua himself witnessed under oath (Mt.26:63-4).

Jesus’ mortal years were within a setting where “swearing by heaven and earth was not binding, nor was swearing by Jerusalem, though swearing toward Jerusalem was. That an entire Mishnaic tract (m. Šebu.) is given over to the subject (see also m. Sanh. 3.2; t. Ned. 1; Str-B, 1:321–36) shows that such distinctions became important and were widely discussed” (Matthew (EBC), 2010:384-5).

I personally would hate to have to swear in court to tell “the whole truth”, because literally that would formally commit me to speak of all that’s true, ie covering truth within and beyond creation, and that enterprise is way beyond me. Functionally the court would not mean what it demands I swear to do, but merely to be 100% truthful in my witness regarding its limited topic, “wholly truthful”. Courts thus abuse truth by misleading witnesses. As a Christian I would be permitted by God to swear to speak truthfully, so help me God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

We have it written that at least one person called Apostle did not repent in this, at least for a while.

Greetings, and welcome to Christian Forums, Jonathan Brickman! Hope you like being a member here : )

The above statement is intriguing. What were you referring to specifically, if I might ask?

Btw, I would take the position that human beings cannot be counted on to keep their vows with absolute certainty, sometimes due to circumstances that are simply beyond their control, so I would advise against them just as I believe Christ Himself advocated and James after him.

Welcome once again, and thank you for joining.
Hidden in Him

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

We have it written that at least one person called Apostle did not repent in this, at least for a while.

The above statement is intriguing. What were you referring to specifically, if I might ask?

Ditto. The reference is here:

And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.
Acts 18:18

and also here:

Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Acts 21:23

I have had conversations in which the above two references are given as justification for full disregard of that which Christ the Lord said on the subject. But I shall not consider things so. The actions of four or five people not God, even though one be an Apostle, do not justify throwing His words away. Though given the precedents, I can understand informing our brothers and sisters of what He has said, rather than doing requirements.

On the other hand, defining church-leadership and hierarchy according to vows, does now have to give me the heebie-jeebies...

 

[Hidden In Him]

On the other hand, defining church-leadership and hierarchy according to vows, does now have to give me the heebie-jeebies...

LoL!

Ditto. The reference is here:
and also here:
I have had conversations in which the above two references are given as justification for full disregard of that which Christ the Lord said on the subject. But I shall not consider things so. The actions of four or five people not God, even though one be an Apostle, do not justify throwing His words away.

Well that's seriously interesting, and I had never noticed this before.

You know, I've also noticed things in the past. The scriptural command of Paul in one place was "be anxious for nothing" (Philippians 4:6), yet in 2 Corinthians 11, he added to the end of the list of things he had to endure for the gospel's sake, "the anxiety over all the churches." I can check again, but I'm near certain the same Greek family is being used there, so the meaning is the same...

It's as if they knew what to do, but did not always remember to do it. That's a human characteristic, of course, and common to all of us, but this sort of adds to it. Very interesting.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I can check again, but I'm near certain the same Greek family is being used there, so the meaning is the same...

Yep.

Philippians 4:6​

6 μηδὲν μεριμνᾶτε, ἀλλ' ἐν παντὶ τῇ προσευχῇ καὶ τῇ δεήσει μετὰ εὐχαριστίας τὰ αἰτήματαὑμῶν γνωριζέσθω πρὸς τὸν θεόν.

2 Corinthians 11:28​

28 χωρὶς τῶν παρεκτὸς ἡ ἐπίστασίς μοι ἡ καθ' ἡμέραν, ἡ μέριμνα πασῶν τῶν ἐκκλησιῶν.

 

[Hidden In Him]

On the other hand, defining church-leadership and hierarchy according to vows, does now have to give me the heebie-jeebies...

So where is this occurring if I might ask? (no need to divulge if it's personal. Just curious).

 

[JLB]

We have it that the Lord has said:

This startled me tremendously the first time I saw it...and then I forgot it, and this happened at least two or three more times over the last twenty years or so. Each time, the impact was greater, and each time, the Word brought me further from much and many, and closer to Him.

This is because so much, currently and much more historically, within churches and outside, is defined by sworn vows, which are all of evil. The impact of His Word in this regard is great and terrible, terrible in the old "awesome, humbling, and a bit frightening" sense. We have it written that at least one person called Apostle did not repent in this, at least for a while. To publicly say and promote those words of Christ the Lord would have gotten us executed possibly anywhere where church-folk and feudal-folk ruled, four hundred years ago. Even today, many of those that claim Christ but live by sworn vows will do everything they can to suppress us. Although in some places there are still courthouse allowances for we who will affirm but not swear.

One can even trace divisions within the Church of the Lord, to the content of many sworn vows, and in addition, to secret vows, personal allegiances and determinations which likewise are of evil.

But the benefits of living those words the Lord has said, are more tremendous then all struggles. Anyone have examples to share?

In the deliverance/counseling side of ministry we refer to what you are discussing as Judgment Vows.

Usually they come from a place of hurt or trauma.

A child with an abusive father may say…
“I will never abuse my wife and kids when I grow up”.

“I will never be an alcoholic”.

“ I will never cheat on my wife when I get married”

They end up doing the exact thing that they vowed to never do.


Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Luke 6:37


Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. Matthew 7:1-2

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

Rather interesting. A large category indeed.

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

On the other hand, defining church-leadership and hierarchy according to vows, does now have to give me the heebie-jeebies...

So where is this occurring if I might ask? (no need to divulge if it's personal. Just curious).

Not personal at all -- but not sure enough of the rules of this forum, to know whether I'd be in violation in giving that answer

 

[JLB]

Not personal at all -- but not sure enough of the rules of this forum, to know whether I'd be in violation in giving that answer

Please share what’s on your heart.

You don’t have to refer to a particular denomination or person by name.

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

OK. Some years ago, I happened on autobiographical material of a well-known public figure in a certain large church, in which some of the writer's church-experiences were given. And I learned that in that large church, every single person of authority, is given authority according to the vows they take. Their adults swear baptismal vows...and they swear more vows to become pastors, yet more vows to become monks, nuns, priests, bishops, and on. Everything additional, comes with additional swearing of vows.

When asked about this, all sorts of weird attempt to suppress that which Christ has said, are given. But He has said that all swearing of vows, all attempt to do more than simple agreement, is of evil.

And then more became clear. Consider the content of those vows. One of the cardinal items is obedience. Again we have all sorts of whitewash-attempts, to suppress that which Christ has given...but we are talking about church-magisteria who have commended and commanded great and terrible evils over centuries, and whose moderns claim unbroken link to those. The unbroken link exists. It is to the keeping of the vows that they swear, of which they are proud, which are of evil, saith the Lord.

And I will suggest that this is the root of all denominationalism. Sworn vows public or private, explicit or implicit, instead of receiving from God.

 

[JLB]

And I will suggest that this is the root of all denominationalism. Sworn vows public or private, explicit or implicit, instead of receiving from God.

I agree with your perspective and would add that man's doctrine rather than the doctrine of Christ always produces divisions, which we call denominations.

10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Corinthians 1:10-13

John who loved Jesus says it this way -

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

 

[Hidden In Him]

Not personal at all -- but not sure enough of the rules of this forum, to know whether I'd be in violation in giving that answer

You mean about speaking out about denominations and stuff? The general rule is just to be respectful. No rule in Christianity against correcting what needs to be corrected, and I find your insight pretty insightful. I'd like to know how it applies in the 21st century. I'm a little out of the loop when it comes to mainline denominations, if that's what you're referring to. And if it's within Pentecostalism, well, it wouldn't be the first time we were screwing something up, Lol.

Blessings, and thanks again for the thread. Not often I learn something new.

 

[Hidden In Him]

And I will suggest that this is the root of all denominationalism. Sworn vows public or private, explicit or implicit, instead of receiving from God.

Oh... I think I just figured out who you are talking about : )

Yes, even within occult societies there is something called the swearing of blood oaths, which is essentially the same thing. Making declarations of absolute loyalty and subservience in the flesh. And yes, that stuff most certainly is evil. I'd prefer to think on the versions the apostle Paul was using, where it just appears he wanted something iron clad from God - a promise of something. And we have to remember, Paul was steeped in Phariseeism and continued to be around them in his ministry because the Jews would never leave him alone. So maybe at times his thinking got away from him. He was certainly going through a lot. Or maybe the timing of his verses was such that it was a lesson he learned over time. I'd have to trace the dating on the references. But it's interesting. It should also be mentioned that it may have been a very ingrained custom within Judaism, because James mentioned it very early on in the Christian era speaking specifically to Jewish Christians, so maybe that explains it as well. The church knew, but maybe they weren't stressing it enough to combat the well-engrained Jewish custom, and Paul fell back into it as well.

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

It's interesting, I have learned that multiple very large and old denominations are built like that. Haven't heard one way or the other about the Ethiopian, Coptic, or Assyrian churches.

 

[Hidden In Him]

It's interesting, I have learned that multiple very large and old denominations are built like that. Haven't heard one way or the other about the Ethiopian, Coptic, or Assyrian churches.

Johnathon, as a heads up, people may not get notification of your replies unless you quote them, and at also helps to know who you are responding to. The way you do that is by clinking on the "reply" button on the bottom right of the post you are wanting to respond to. That way they get alerted, and they know you are relying to them : )

Gonna feature this thread for a little bit, cuz I think it's pretty interesting.

 

[D-D-W]

Ditto. The reference is here:

And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.
Acts 18:18

and also here:

Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Acts 21:23

I have had conversations in which the above two references are given as justification for full disregard of that which Christ the Lord said on the subject. But I shall not consider things so. The actions of four or five people not God, even though one be an Apostle, do not justify throwing His words away. Though given the precedents, I can understand informing our brothers and sisters of what He has said, rather than doing requirements.

On the other hand, defining church-leadership and hierarchy according to vows, does now have to give me the heebie-jeebies...

The "Vows" in question here that Paul and the other 4 from Jerusalem were Nazirite vows, as listed in Numbers 6. It is possible that Our Lord also took a Nazirite vow at the Last Supper.

Mark 14:25
Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Such a statement - to forgo drinking wine for a specified period of time - was considered making a Nazirite vow in that day and culture.

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

The "Vows" in question here that Paul and the other 4 from Jerusalem were Nazirite vows, as listed in Numbers 6. It is possible that Our Lord also took a Nazirite vow at the Last Supper.

Mark 14:25
Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Such a statement - to forgo drinking wine for a specified period of time - was considered making a Nazirite vow in that day and culture.

Christ the Lord did nothing of evil. All sworn vows, whether Nazirite or not, since the coming of Christ the Lord, are of evil, says Christ the Lord Himself.

But clearly, even after the Resurrection, even after Pentacost, many of the earliest church were not able to accept this.

It does not matter what was considered. Christ the Lord is the definer of good and evil. Before His coming, it was good for the Hebrews to live by eye for eye, tooth for tooth. Since His coming, it is not good for anyone to live so. Before His coming, there were Nazirite vows, and very possibly other swearing of vows, which were not of evil. Since His coming, all swearing of vows is of evil.

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

Johnathon, as a heads up, people may not get notification of your replies unless you quote them, and at also helps to know who you are responding to. The way you do that is by clinking on the "reply" button on the bottom right of the post you are wanting to respond to. That way they get alerted, and they know you are relying to them : )

Will do! Thanks, Hidden.