What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Bible Study To Touch A Holy Thing.

JLB said:
The Ark itself, as well as the contents, are a type of Christ, Who is called The Word of God.

JLB
Click to expand...
Many things in the law that were forbidden were forbidden for the purpose of showing us how these things are opened up for us and allowed in this New Covenant (The veil is probably the most easily understood example of this). This matter of the Ark not being able to be touched is another, IMO:

"1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life" (1 John 1:1 NASB)

The lesson being that the things that we are cut off from in a law relationship with God are opened up for us and accessible in the better grace covenant with God.
 
The subject is beyond my scope of study, and therefore, I can only comment generally on it, but in the law there were sacrifices that were Holy that caused whatever it came in contact with to be made Holy. In our natural selves we know that it is the one bad apple that corrupts the basket of good ones, not the other way around. But in Christ the good apple makes the corrupt apple clean, completely contrary to our natural thinking. The concept reminds me of the unclean woman who touched the hem of Jesus' garment:

"20 And a woman who had been suffering from a hemorrhage for twelve years, came up behind Him and touched the fringe of His cloak; 21 for she was saying to herself, "If I only touch His garment, I will get well." (Matthew 9:20-21 NASB)

23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you." (Zechariah 8:23 NASB)
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Many things in the law that were forbidden were forbidden for the purpose of showing us how these things are opened up for us and allowed in this New Covenant (The veil is probably the most easily understood example of this). This matter of the Ark not being able to be touched is another, IMO:

"1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life" (1 John 1:1 NASB)

The lesson being that the things that we are cut off from in a law relationship with God are opened up for us and accessible in the better grace covenant with God.
Click to expand...

Yes sir.

As well as the fact ours sins are removed in the New Covenant, which allows us access To holy things,whereas under the law the sins where covered over, (atoned) and therefore they could not touch...

We can come boldly before the Throne, whereas then, only one could have access behind the veil, and then only once a year.

JLB
 
Jethro Bodine said:
but in the law there were sacrifices that were Holy that caused whatever it came in contact with to be made Holy. In our natural selves we know that it is the one bad apple that corrupts the basket of good ones, not the other way around. But in Christ the good apple makes the corrupt apple clean, completely contrary to our natural thinking.
Click to expand...
This reminded me of how in nature the branch from the cultivated tree, that produces fruit, is grafted into the wild tree, that is not producing fruit, in order that it will. But with Christ it is the other way around. It is the branch that produces no fruit, that is grafted into the tree that produces fruit on it's branches.
JLB said:
As well as the fact ours sins are removed in the New Covenant, which allows us access To holy things,whereas under the law the sins where covered over, (atoned) and therefore they could not touch...
Click to expand...
Excellant!
 
Deborah13 said:
This reminded me of how in nature the branch from the cultivated tree, that produces fruit, is grafted into the wild tree, that is not producing fruit, in order that it will...
Click to expand...
I did not know that.

Deborah13 said:
But with Christ it is the other way around. It is the branch that produces no fruit, that is grafted into the tree that produces fruit on it's branches.
Click to expand...
Like so many things in the kingdom that are contrary to our natural expectations, like how the son born later is the one that inherits the Father's blessing over and above the son born first, against all natural expectation.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
You just reminded me of something that happened to me that taught me a very good lesson.

Years ago I used to do a lot of witnessing in the office I worked in. There was a young woman who worked there with a very colored past who was very resistant to all things 'God'. One day she was in my section and I responded to something she said with the word of God in a humorous, flippant, but convicting way.

Now, I'm not some weird wacko that thinks there's a demon behind every door, but I aroused a demon out of her that scared the livin' daylights out of me (I'm almost 6'2", 205 lbs at the time. She was prolly 110 lbs soaking wet). It was just before quitting time and as I was driving home I was angry and I said to God 'I'm done with this stuff, I'm not doing it anymore'. God told me.....'My Word is powerful, stop carelessly tossing it around.'

Message received. I now remember that if you're going to be sharing the Word of God you better be prepared to deal with what it does, good and bad, and therefore, don't use it flippantly or carelessly. God's words aren't just words, they are alive, Holy, powerful, and effective.

Oh, by the way. Before she quit some months later she shared how she had an epiphany (her words) about the vitriolic hatred she had. Don't know if she did officially become a Christian but I would not be surprised if someone led her to the Lord at a later date.
Click to expand...

Wow Jethro! That's a powerful testimony of the awesome, powerful Word of God. I couldn't help but think of the fear of God in using His Word for, as you say, "flippant" ways. Your post is certainly a wake up call for all of us. Thanks for sharing your testimony....Love You!
 
When you consider the ark...
The shape of it, the angels at either end of it...
Does it make you think of what the women saw at Christ's tomb early on Resurrection Sunday?

The stone where Jesus had been laid, with an angel at the head and feet...

Think about it...
 
Chopper said:
Did Uzza think God needed a crutch?
Click to expand...

It seems to me that was not much more if any at all, than an involuntary response on Uzzas part. It's very possible it could not have been helped, like blinking and I doubt Uzza had time to think at all. You'd have to picture yourself in the situation, the cart suddenly looks like it will fall over, that sudden rush of adrenalin and eyes wide open and quick thought "Its going to fall over!" then good intentions (if you even have time to think good intention) whether involontary or not, make you react without thinking or having a chance to think.

If I understand the verse right, David was a little upset with God and if that is correct, I see where he was coming from. I feel for the guy, especially if it came off as it appers to me it very well could have.
 
Kenny_ms said:
It seems to me that was not much more if any at all, than an involuntary response on Uzzas part. It's very possible it could not have been helped, like blinking and I doubt Uzza had time to think at all. You'd have to picture yourself in the situation, the cart suddenly looks like it will fall over, that sudden rush of adrenalin and eyes wide open and quick thought "Its going to fall over!" then good intentions (if you even have time to think good intention) whether involontary or not, make you react without thinking or having a chance to think.

If I understand the verse right, David was a little upset with God and if that is correct, I see where he was coming from. I feel for the guy, especially if it came off as it appers to me it very well could have.
Click to expand...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it that way.
 
Was it the touch that zapped them or the disobedience? the lack of trust? Thinking God needed their help ( i have never been there :neutral )
 
TheBarrd said:
So far, anyhow:pray
Click to expand...

Say one for me too, lol

It would be the disobedience and not the touch but my point was, was there voluntary disobedience.

I'd like to assume there was and it was totally justified and not a reflex but after looking closely, I wonder.

David was upset about something and it sounds to me like he was thinking the exact same thing as me. Can't say that for sure but I'm sure you can see how I might draw the possible conclusion I do.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kenny_ms said:
Say one for me too, lol

It would be the disobedience and not the touch but my point was, was there voluntary disobedience.

I'd like to assume there was and it was totally justified and not a reflex but after looking closely, I wonder.

David was upset about something and it sounds to me like he was thinking the exact same thing as me. Can't say that for sure but I'm sure you can see how I might draw the possible conclusion I do.
Click to expand...
I just had the thought that maybe David was upset because he felt it was his fault. He would have been the one that ordered it to be moved with the cart and that in itself was disobedience.
 
Kenny_ms said:
It seems to me that was not much more if any at all, than an involuntary response on Uzzas part. It's very possible it could not have been helped, like blinking and I doubt Uzza had time to think at all. You'd have to picture yourself in the situation, the cart suddenly looks like it will fall over, that sudden rush of adrenalin and eyes wide open and quick thought "Its going to fall over!" then good intentions (if you even have time to think good intention) whether involontary or not, make you react without thinking or having a chance to think.

If I understand the verse right, David was a little upset with God and if that is correct, I see where he was coming from. I feel for the guy, especially if it came off as it appers to me it very well could have.
Click to expand...
Personally, I believe you have stated the exact truth of the matter.
 
Kenny_ms said:
I was reluctant to say anything at first but God didn't strike David down for his thoughts on the matter so I guess we're safe. :)
Click to expand...

Think back to the story in the book of Exodus as the children of Israel came to Mt Sinai as the were led out of Egypt. The came to the mountain that was not to be touched, yet they were called forth to go up on the third day. But on the third day they would not go up for fear of touching the mountain. But Moses went up, Joshua went up, as did some of the others, but the multitudes and the nation as a a whole did not, and thus they receive the ark that was not to be touched.

Hebrews 12:18-24
For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
 
Kenny_ms said:
I was reluctant to say anything at first but God didn't strike David down for his thoughts on the matter so I guess we're safe. :)
Click to expand...

David and Uzza lived under different covenants. Uzza was bound to the covenant made with Moses, David on the other hand was bound to the covenant made with Christ. Uzza lived by the law, and therefore died by the law. David lived by Faith, and by faith the mountain could be touched without the certainty of death, as Moses had shown.
 
Deborah13 said:
I just had the thought that maybe David was upset because he felt it was his fault. He would have been the one that ordered it to be moved with the cart and that in itself was disobedience.
Click to expand...
I have always leaned that direction, also. The most common take on leaders is that they are isolated and do not care. I, directly, served a Geeral in one of my assignments and at the time, I was twenty and unblooded, I could not understand his need for alcohol before sleeping. After my first tour in Vietnam I knew, exactly, why he was ruining his future career, the dreams of your dead men, the men you sent, haunt you without ceasing.

I would venture to say that even the second hand murder that netted him Bathsheba, likely haunted him. And as Deb points out, David sent Uzza with instruction on how to move the Ark.
 
th1b.taylor said:
I have always leaned that direction, also. The most common take on leaders is that they are isolated and do not care. I, directly, served a Geeral in one of my assignments and at the time, I was twenty and unblooded, I could not understand his need for alcohol before sleeping. After my first tour in Vietnam I knew, exactly, why he was ruining his future career, the dreams of your dead men, the men you sent, haunt you without ceasing.

I would venture to say that even the second hand murder that netted him Bathsheba, likely haunted him. And as Deb points out, David sent Uzza with instruction on how to move the Ark.
Click to expand...
Thanks Bill, that is exactly what I was thinking. Good example, your general. I would feel at fault, I'm sure you would too, from what you have said.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top