Trayvon Martin Shooting Case: Eyewitness Says Martin Attacked Zimmerman

[Lewis]

I don't think the controversy is about pushing an agenda... although people have certainly jumped on the bandwagon.

But, the original controversy, what prompted the parents to get the media involved in the first place, was that their unarmed son was walking back from the store, talking to his girlfriend that someone was stalking him...and that someone shot and killed him and was not going to be charged with a crime and brought to trial.

It's up to the court system, judge and jury to determine if Zimmerman is guilty or innocent. But, for the police to merely cite "Stand Your Ground" and refuse to bring charges... that's wrong.

From the Sanford Herald (I always like to quote a newspaper as close to the source as possible):

Sanford Police did not originally arrest Zimmerman because he had claimed the shooting occurred in self-defense.

Then Police Chief Bill Lee Jr. cited the Stand Your Ground Law, saying it would be a violation of Zimmerman’s civil rights to arrest him. Corey stated that if the Stand Your Ground Law becomes an issue later in the case, prosecutors will fight it.

Read more: The Sanford Herald - George Zimmerman faces 2nd degree murder charge
​

That's what was wrong with this case... that a man could ignore the police telling him not to follow a young kid, wind up killing the kid and no charges ever be brought in the first place.

If it wasn't for the public pressure, Zimmerman would have walked... and perhaps, after his trial he will. But, at least now, there will be a trial, not just a few police making up their minds that nothing wrong happened.

Amen

 

[Danus]

Now this is what I'm talking about. Both Danus and Lewis know what went on. I think this is a rush to judgment.

- Davies

Careful. I stated facts where facts are known and spoke of the possibilities, under the current law, where we don't know the facts.

 

[Mike S]

Careful. I stated facts where facts are known and spoke of the possibilities, under the current law, where we don't know the facts.

Really? You spoke of "And I know for sure that Zimmerman provoked what ever went on."

Do you have inside information on everything that went on before Zimmerman began following Martin? or what happened after Zimmerman called 911? or what happened after Zimmerman lost track of Martin and returned to his car? Or is your "knowing for sure" based only on your belief that Zimmerman should have followed the dispatcher's advice to not follow martin? Because if Zimmerman's account is accurite, he did stop followig Martin after he lost track of him.

There are nearly infinite possibilities of details in this case that can blow your "know for sure" right out of the water, because in truth, you know almost nothing at all except what you've seen or read or heard in the media, you're merely speculating. And you and everyone else who comments endlessly and loudly that he "knows for sure" make it nearly impossible for the courts to carry out a fair trial, which is exactly what agitators like Jackson and Sharpton want.

 

[Lewis]

Really? You spoke of "And I know for sure that Zimmerman provoked what ever went on."

Do you have inside information on everything that went on before Zimmerman began following Martin? or what happened after Zimmerman called 911? or what happened after Zimmerman lost track of Martin and returned to his car? Or is your "knowing for sure" based only on your belief that Zimmerman should have followed the dispatcher's advice to not follow martin? Because if Zimmerman's account is accurite, he did stop followig Martin after he lost track of him.

There are nearly infinite possibilities of details in this case that can blow your "know for sure" right out of the water, because in truth, you know almost nothing at all except what you've seen or read or heard in the media, you're merely speculating. And you and everyone else who comments endlessly and loudly that he "knows for sure" make it nearly impossible for the courts to carry out a fair trial, which is exactly what agitators like Jackson and Sharpton want.

Yeah he provoked it, who was following who ?

 

[Pard]

Lewis,

As far as I understand, Mark's sole point is that you shouldn't speculate one way or the other. Let the justice system work, it takes a while to do its job but that is because it has to be complete and make sure no stone goes unturned. So don't be like the media who has already tried the man and just wait. You have no clue what happened. Sure, the 9-1-1 tapes say some part of it, but they do not cover anything after that. And why is the girlfriend 100% creditable? Her boyfriend was killed, of course she'll say anything to keep his name clean. How do you know he really didn't go "Baby, I'm gonna go jump this idiot over here for a good laugh!"?

People lie. Just let the justice system work, its what you pay fit to do.

 

[Lewis]

Lewis,

As far as I understand, Mark's sole point is that you shouldn't speculate one way or the other. Let the justice system work, it takes a while to do its job but that is because it has to be complete and make sure no stone goes unturned. So don't be like the media who has already tried the man and just wait. You have no clue what happened. Sure, the 9-1-1 tapes say some part of it, but they do not cover anything after that. And why is the girlfriend 100% creditable? Her boyfriend was killed, of course she'll say anything to keep his name clean. How do you know he really didn't go "Baby, I'm gonna go jump this idiot over here for a good laugh!"?

People lie. Just let the justice system work, its what you pay fit to do.

yes I know what you are saying. But Zimmerman was told by the cops to not follow this kid, but he did it anyway. And it does not take a jury to know that Zimmerman had no right to play a cop, when the real ones told him to back off.

 

[Mike S]

Yeah he provoked it, who was following who ?

At what point? When Zimmerman left his car to find Martin, or when he lost track and returned to his car? If Zimmerman had no right to accost Martin when he wasn't being threatened, then Martin didn't have a right to accost Zimmerman when he was no longer threatened either.

Look, I understand it's a tragedy that a young man was killed, but speculating about the guilt and innocence based only on media reports gut reactions and shrill accusations by political agitators is irresponsible, and can only lead to negative outcomes. It gives me no pleasure that a young black man is dead, but it would also not give me pleasure thaat a young white/Hispanic man be railroaded by public outrage if he's innocent. Only the law and the courts are capable of finding the truth. This public witch hunt serves no good purpose.

 

[Lewis]

At what point? When Zimmerman left his car to find Martin, or when he lost track and returned to his car? If Zimmerman had no right to accost Martin when he wasn't being threatened, then Martin didn't have a right to accost Zimmerman when he was no longer threatened either.

Look, I understand it's a tragedy that a young man was killed, but speculating about the guilt and innocence based only on media reports gut reactions and shrill accusations by political agitators is irresponsible, and can only lead to negative outcomes. It gives me no pleasure that a young black man is dead, but it would also not give me pleasure thaat a young white/Hispanic man be railroaded by public outrage if he's innocent. Only the law and the courts are capable of finding the truth. This public witch hunt serves no good purpose.

You just don't get it do you ?

 

[Mike S]

You just don't get it do you ?

You know, Lewis, I've decided to edit my comment, be a little less tolerant of your obvious self-serving attitude. It's you who doesn't get this, It's you who seems stuck in some 1960's racial time warp of stereotype thinking and gut reactions. Let me give you a link to someone who actually does "get it."



William Jacobson, Cornell Law School Professor, speaking after the Zimmerman indictment announced -- http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/04/special-prosecutor-press-conference/

Thanks to Bryan for coverng the press conference for me. I’m in the car (not the one driving!) and the Verizon Wireless connection is good, but not great for live streams while traveling. But, I did get to listen to almost all of the press conference on radio.

We learned nothing new about the facts of the case. What irked me was to hear the prosecutor thank the Martin family attorneys — that seems a little close for my liking in a prosecutor, and in fact the Martin family attorneys have acted irresponsibly in the media as I have addressed before.

I saw on Twitter that the Martin family held a press conference with Al Sharpton by their side, but I didn’t get to see it. Although Zimmerman now is charged, and the case is in the courts, I expect the Martin family attorneys, Sharpton, and others continue to work the case in the media from a racial angle and to inflame passions in the community as a means of tainting the jury pool.

For the prosecutor to embrace the Martin family attorneys with thanks at the press conference, and for AG Eric Holder verbally to praise Sharpton today, tells me that a case which should be about facts of who did what to whom is going to turn into an even bigger racial narrative for a variety of purposes which have nothing to do with the guilt or innocence of the accused.

 

[jasoncran]

i think i will take mark's and pard's advice and remain neutral and allow justice to be served. we dont know what went on. i do find it odd that if he was followed and he was that why trevon didnt hang up and call 911. odd since i have been stalked 8 times in my life and none of them were citizen patrols.and one of them i did call the cops. the seven other times i went to the station and they left me alone or also i evaded them in that they knew where i was going to go to the sheriff station. that was all before cell phones were cheap and easy to get for me.

 

[Danus]

Really? You spoke of "And I know for sure that Zimmerman provoked what ever went on."

Do you have inside information on everything that went on before Zimmerman began following Martin? or what happened after Zimmerman called 911? or what happened after Zimmerman lost track of Martin and returned to his car? Or is your "knowing for sure" based only on your belief that Zimmerman should have followed the dispatcher's advice to not follow martin? Because if Zimmerman's account is accurite, he did stop followig Martin after he lost track of him.

There are nearly infinite possibilities of details in this case that can blow your "know for sure" right out of the water, because in truth, you know almost nothing at all except what you've seen or read or heard in the media, you're merely speculating. And you and everyone else who comments endlessly and loudly that he "knows for sure" make it nearly impossible for the courts to carry out a fair trial, which is exactly what agitators like Jackson and Sharpton want.

For someone concerned with the facts you had no problem misquoting me. I said.....

"Could Zimmerman have provoked a physical altercation with Trayvon and in the process of loosing the fight shot him to death?"

I stated the known facts in the case as presented in the news, and I added my opinion and thoughts about it. Anything I stated as fact came from what we already know.

 

[Stormcrow]

But Zimmerman was told by the cops to not follow this kid, but he did it anyway.

And you know this for a fact because ____________? 2

Unless you were there, no one knows what really happened.

 

[Mike S]

For someone concerned with the facts you had no problem misquoting me. I said.....

"Could Zimmerman have provoked a physical altercation with Trayvon and in the process of loosing the fight shot him to death?"

I stated the known facts in the case as presented in the news, and I added my opinion and thoughts about it. Anything I stated as fact came from what we already know.

I apologize. The quoted comment I attributed to you was actually made by Lewis.

Mea culpa.

 

[handy]

And you know this for a fact because ____________? 2

Unless you were there, no one knows what really happened.

You must not have listened to the tapes the police have released... When Zimmerman was calling the police about Martin, the dispatcher asked him if he was following the boy and Zimmerman said yes... The dispatcher then very clearly told Zimmerman not to do so.

 

[Pard]

Dora,

I do believe Stormcrow is actually referring to the "but he did it anyway" portion. No one knows what happened between when the dispatcher said that and when Zimmerman redialed 9-1-1.

What's sad is that this man will never get a proper trial and the boy will never see proper justice. There will never be an impartial jury for this case because it has been the only thing on TV, radio, print, and internet since it happened. Unlike a lot of big time local cases, like the Cheshire home invasion in my state, this has done national so Florida cannot even ask Georgia to add to the jury pool, which is something that does sometimes occur in extremely polarized cases.

It's funny because this will end up playing against the prosecution if they win, since Zimmerman will have enough material to appeal this case until the cows come home.

Lastly, I find it discouraging that Al Sharpton, a lawyer, had to question why this man was only being charged with 2nd Degree Murder. As a lawyer he ought to be surprised that he is even being charged with 2nd Degree Murder, as "Imperfect Self-Defense" falls under Criminal Homicide, and not Murder. That will be another thing to appeal, since the charge of 2nd Degree Murder is to high.

And I believe I read from someone earlier that it was a travesty that Zimmerman wasn't arrested sooner, and I feel I ought to comment on this a second time. To arrest him sooner would have been a violation of Florida state law and would have been grounds for an acquittal. The police and the DA's officer acted properly in withholding an arrest until a Grand Jury could be called to investigate the matter. Now, if anyone knows something it would be the members of the GJ, but they have a gag order until the case has been finalized.

 

[handy]

Pard,

The Grand Jury isn't indicting Zimmerman in this case. That is only necessary if the prosecutor was going after 1st degree murder. As she is seeking 2nd degree, she is by-passing the grand jury and taking it to trial herself.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...shooting-death-wont-go-to-florida-grand-jury/

 

[Lewis]

Ok I will say this just one more time. Zimmerman was told not to follow the boy, Zimmerman had already put Trayvon in fear because Trayvon knew that he was being followed. So why would you drive up to this kid and get out of your car and confront this kid. Why didn't you let the law come and take care of this ? It does not take a someone with a 500 IQ to figure out that Zimmerman provoked what ever went down. Zimmerman had no right to step up to this kid. Trayvon was not bothering Zimmerman. When you know someone is following you fear takes over, and things can get nasty. This kid did not know what was on Zimmermans mind as he was following him. We don't know if Zimmerman showed Trayvon a gun or what, we don't know if the struggle was over the gun or what. But we do know that Zimmerman was as wrong as 2 left shoes for following Trayvon when the cops told him not to, which is as clear as a bell on the tape. If he had left Trayvon alone we would not be having this discussion. So there is no question as to who provoked this, and that person is Zimmerman, and I am alluding to the fact that Zimmerman was told to back off, and he defied the dispatcher and proceeded to get up close and personal. And one more thing and I am not talking to you Pard, but we are going to keep this discussion civil there will be no name calling. If you have a problem with a person, you simply PM that person but name calling will not be tolerated period. I know that things like this can make tempers flare, and if that happens PM that person, because if not, I will lock this subject. Everybody has an American right, to his or her opinion.

 

[Davies]

Was it the queen of hearts that said, 'Off with his head!'

Everyone and their grandmother are speculating with their 500 iqs, which threatens to tell the story for us.

- Davies

 

[jasoncran]

lewis, i love ya.

but if this was me that died, there wouldnt be any of you talking about it like this.no riots. or any other white male. only in florida would it even heard off. there was an incident in west palm where a man killed another man over a bike
this is murder and yet nothing in the national news

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/dispute-over-bicycle-led-to-shooting-death-of-2162787.html

 

[Lewis]

Jason if that was you, I would be upset to no end. And yes I would holler out. And I think that the people on this board who knows you would try to jump start a petition.