Tribulation...

[Hitch]

It IS true that Jesus instructions to the apostles to flee Jerusalem and the days of vengence against the Jews, was for that generation that lived at that time, however because Jesus said that IMMEDIATELY AFTER that tribulation that the powers of Heaven would be shaken and He would return in the sky to gather the saints,therefore it seems reasonable that Jesus was also speaking of ANOTHER TRIBULATION

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

that would occur just before His return when the end of the age would occur. An idea is only as good as the evidence to support that idea. Jesus foretold the destruction of Jerusalem in the first century and the evidence shows that this occured in the first century,so we know that Jesus was speaking of the great tribulation as something that would happen in the first century.
On the other hand,Jesus said that immediately after THAT tribulation the sun would go black,moon red,stars fall, and Christ would return in the sky to gather the believers,now we know that this did not occur,so it is reasonable to believe that it is still in the future. Also, if the return of Christ is in the future, and that return occurs immediately after a tribulation period,then it seems reasonable that there is coming another tribulation period in the future and just before the return of Christ.
There IS a problem with the time element,however we need to keep in mind that God told Adam he would die in the DAY he ate of the fruit, and Adam lived over 328500 days AFTER he ate from the fruit...so maybe God looks at time different than we do??? Also, it is not possible to claim that the sun went black and the moon red and the stars fell and Christ returned in the sky and gathered the believers...with a straight face.

Did Christ ever hang on a tree? Remember your literalism is at stake

.folks that just did not happen and anyone who tries to claim it did has lost all credibility

God cant count ,tell time or convey messages... Actually futurists just dont care for what Jesus actually said, Sam isnt the least conserned with directly contradicting Jesus himself. Amazing.

 

[reba]

So maybe God looks at time different than we do?

I would disagree. Sam, God said Adam would die in the day so, Adam did. God has not lost His credibility.
Just the plain fact that we say Adam lived and God said he would die shows me, we, mankind are out of step with God. Man is therefore wrong in his assessment of death. God is never wrong.


A few years back a small town in CA had fire all around it . The inversion layer was created. When it was first happening Mom was on the phone telling me about the moon being red, no stars in the sky, and the sun darkened. We compared what she was living through to the Scriptures…Could the same thing happened in 70 AD I don’t know that it did but it is a possibility.

Adam died just as God said he would .

 

[warhorse]

It IS true that Jesus instructions to the apostles to flee Jerusalem and the days of vengence against the Jews, was for that generation that lived at that time, however because Jesus said that IMMEDIATELY AFTER that tribulation that the powers of Heaven would be shaken and He would return in the sky to gather the saints,therefore it seems reasonable that Jesus was also speaking of ANOTHER TRIBULATION that would occur just before His return when the end of the age would occur. An idea is only as good as the evidence to support that idea. Jesus foretold the destruction of Jerusalem in the first century and the evidence shows that this occured in the first century,so we know that Jesus was speaking of the great tribulation as something that would happen in the first century.
On the other hand,Jesus said that immediately after THAT tribulation the sun would go black,moon red,stars fall, and Christ would return in the sky to gather the believers,now we know that this did not occur,so it is reasonable to believe that it is still in the future. Also, if the return of Christ is in the future, and that return occurs immediately after a tribulation period,then it seems reasonable that there is coming another tribulation period in the future and just before the return of Christ.
There IS a problem with the time element,however we need to keep in mind that God told Adam he would die in the DAY he ate of the fruit, and Adam lived over 328500 days AFTER he ate from the fruit...so maybe God looks at time different than we do??? Also, it is not possible to claim that the sun went black and the moon red and the stars fell and Christ returned in the sky and gathered the believers...with a straight face..folks that just did not happen and anyone who tries to claim it did has lost all credibility.

Most of your statement here is dead on, but why do you presume that that tribulation has ended. the diaspora didnt end until the 50s the persecution of the jews and the church has not stopped either. We sit here in our comfy seats with our freedoms that we take for granted and think everything is cool everywhere but over 100 christians were killed in the middle east last year, no!! last month. 47 million christian marters to date. That dwarfs the holocaust. Why do we need another tribulation when the last one isnt over yet.

 

[Sam21]

One of the hardest positions I have trouble understanding is the preterist position,it seems that you folks are standing on the deck of a huge ship sailing through the sea while trying to convince the people standing next to you that the ship sank months ago...absurd is the only word that comes to mind. The fact that you are standing on the deck of the ship should be evidence enough to convince you that the ship has not sank. For crying out loud,THE CHURCH HAS NOT BEEN GATHERED!!! Jesus,Paul, they all taught that Jesus would return and gather the church,if the church has not been gathered then Christ has not returned.
Paul was specific that when Christ returned He would gather the church and the church would from that moment on forever be with the Lord, so if Christ returned in the first century then what is it that is called the church today? And why is evil still here, why is death still here, what age are we in if the church was gathered 1900 years ago?
The entire preterist dogma is based on the phrases, shortly,at hand,ect,it has absolutely NOTHING ELSE to back it up, EVERYTHING else is pointing to the future,why do you reject the huge amount of teachings by Jesus and the apostles that point to Christ return in the future, while clinging to those few phrases of shortly and at hand? Jesus said He would return in the sky and gather His saints,repay the evil world,bind satan, and establish His kingdom,why do you not believe these words of Jesus? The Thess church was Jew and gentile,yet Paul told them that Christ would return in the sky and gather them and they would forever be with the Lord,even though time has passed yet we are part of that same church with the same indwelling Spirit waiting for the same return of the Lord.

 

[Sam21]

Most of your statement here is dead on, but why do you presume that that tribulation has ended. the diaspora didnt end until the 50s the persecution of the jews and the church has not stopped either. We sit here in our comfy seats with our freedoms that we take for granted and think everything is cool everywhere but over 100 christians were killed in the middle east last year, no!! last month. 47 million christian marters to date. That dwarfs the holocaust. Why do we need another tribulation when the last one isnt over yet.

I believe the tribulation has been continues but that also there will be about three and one half years at the closing of the age where the antichrist will rule and where the persecution of both the church and Israel will be the worse in history.

 

[Hitch]

One of the hardest positions I have trouble understanding is the preterist position,it seems that you folks are standing on the deck of a huge ship sailing through the sea while trying to convince the people standing next to you that the ship sank months ago...absurd is the only word that comes to mind. The fact that you are standing on the deck of the ship should be evidence enough to convince you that the ship has not sank. For crying out loud,THE CHURCH HAS NOT BEEN GATHERED!!! Jesus,Paul, they all taught that Jesus would return and gather the church,if the church has not been gathered then Christ has not returned.
Paul was specific that when Christ returned He would gather the church and the church would from that moment on forever be with the Lord, so if Christ returned in the first century then what is it that is called the church today? And why is evil still here, why is death still here, what age are we in if the church was gathered 1900 years ago?
The entire preterist dogma is based on the phrases, shortly,at hand,ect,it has absolutely NOTHING ELSE to back it up, EVERYTHING else is pointing to the future,why do you reject the huge amount of teachings by Jesus and the apostles that point to Christ return in the future, while clinging to those few phrases of shortly and at hand? Jesus said He would return in the sky and gather His saints,repay the evil world,bind satan, and establish His kingdom,why do you not believe these words of Jesus? The Thess church was Jew and gentile,yet Paul told them that Christ would return in the sky and gather them and they would forever be with the Lord,even though time has passed yet we are part of that same church with the same indwelling Spirit waiting for the same return of the Lord.

Yawn so exactly who has said that Christ has returned?
:biglol

 

[Hitch]

One of the hardest positions I have trouble understanding is the preterist position,it seems that you folks are standing on the deck of a huge ship sailing through the sea while trying to convince the people standing next to you that the ship sank months ago...absurd is the only word that comes to mind. The fact that you are standing on the deck of the ship should be evidence enough to convince you that the ship has not sank. For crying out loud,THE CHURCH HAS NOT BEEN GATHERED!!! Jesus,Paul, they all taught that Jesus would return and gather the church,if the church has not been gathered then Christ has not returned.
Paul was specific that when Christ returned He would gather the church and the church would from that moment on forever be with the Lord, so if Christ returned in the first century then what is it that is called the church today? And why is evil still here, why is death still here, what age are we in if the church was gathered 1900 years ago?
The entire preterist dogma is based on the phrases, shortly,at hand,ect,it has absolutely NOTHING ELSE to back it up, EVERYTHING else is pointing to the future,why do you reject the huge amount of teachings by Jesus and the apostles that point to Christ return in the future, while clinging to those few phrases of shortly and at hand?

I wonder is everything you dont like to be culled or just the things Jesus said personally ?

Jesus said He would return in the sky and gather His saints,repay the evil world,bind satan,

Really? Exactly where is scripture is this quote?

and establish His kingdom why do you not believe these words of Jesus?

Ok Sam here is your chance, you claimed Jesus said he was coming back to establish his kingdom , quote Jesus saying that iether you can quote Jesus saying that or you have presumptuously added to scripture, which is it?

The Thess church was Jew and gentile,yet Paul told them that Christ would return in the sky and gather them and they would forever be with the Lord,even though time has passed yet we are part of that same church with the same indwelling Spirit waiting for the same return of the Lord.

Yeah so why is that a problem?

The problem is you made a bold statement above and you cant quote what you tell us Jesus said from scripture.

 

[Sam21]

I wonder is everything you dont like to be culled or just the things Jesus said personally ? Really? Exactly where is scripture is this quote? Ok Sam here is your chance, you claimed Jesus said he was coming back to establish his kingdom , quote Jesus saying that iether you can quote Jesus saying that or you have presumptuously added to scripture, which is it? Yeah so why is that a problem?

The problem is you made a bold statement above and you cant quote what you tell us Jesus said from scripture.

The things I said are fundamental doctrines that are known by those with a basic understanding of the bible,if you really do not know the bible teaches those things then I would suggest you begin to read your bible daily.

 

[Sam21]

I would disagree. Sam, God said Adam would die in the day so, Adam did. God has not lost His credibility.
Just the plain fact that we say Adam lived and God said he would die shows me, we, mankind are out of step with God. Man is therefore wrong in his assessment of death. God is never wrong.


A few years back a small town in CA had fire all around it . The inversion layer was created. When it was first happening Mom was on the phone telling me about the moon being red, no stars in the sky, and the sun darkened. We compared what she was living through to the Scriptures…Could the same thing happened in 70 AD I don’t know that it did but it is a possibility.

Adam died just as God said he would .

I respect your opinion though I may disagree with it, what do you actually believe about the return of Christ and the time in which we live, I will not challenge your position,just want to know what it is?

 

[Hitch]

The things I said are fundamental doctrines that are known by those with a basic understanding of the bible,if you really do not know the bible teaches those things then I would suggest you begin to read your bible daily.

Ok Sam here is your chance, you claimed Jesus said he was coming back to establish his kingdom , quote Jesus saying that iether you can quote Jesus saying that or you have presumptuously added to scripture, which is it?


Jesus said He would return in the sky and gather His saints,repay the evil world,bind satan, and establish His kingdom,why do you not believe these words of Jesus?

Originally Posted by Sam21
One of the hardest positions I have trouble understanding is the preterist position,it seems that you folks are standing on the deck of a huge ship sailing through the sea while trying to convince the people standing next to you that the ship sank months ago...absurd is the only word that comes to mind. The fact that you are standing on the deck of the ship should be evidence enough to convince you that the ship has not sank. For crying out loud,THE CHURCH HAS NOT BEEN GATHERED!!! Jesus,Paul, they all taught that Jesus would return and gather the church,if the church has not been gathered then Christ has not returned.
Paul was specific that when Christ returned He would gather the church and the church would from that moment on forever be with the Lord, so if Christ returned in the first century then what is it that is called the church today? And why is evil still here, why is death still here, what age are we in if the church was gathered 1900 years ago?
The entire preterist dogma is based on the phrases, shortly,at hand,ect,it has absolutely NOTHING ELSE to back it up, EVERYTHING else is pointing to the future,why do you reject the huge amount of teachings by Jesus and the apostles that point to Christ return in the future, while clinging to those few phrases of shortly and at hand? Jesus said He would return in the sky and gather His saints,repay the evil world,bind satan, and establish His kingdom,why do you not believe these words of Jesus? The Thess church was Jew and gentile,yet Paul told them that Christ would return in the sky and gather them and they would forever be with the Lord,even though time has passed yet we are part of that same church with the same indwelling Spirit waiting for the same return of the Lord.

Did you notice how quietly Sam altered his position ? LOL

 

[reba]

1.

I respect your opinion though I may disagree with it, what do you actually believe about the return of Christ and the time in which we live, I will not challenge your position,just want to know what it is?

Thank you. I believe He will return. When I don’t have a clue.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

When in our world looking back at history does the above verse not fit? Wars and rumours of wars is the norm.


Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Again the above verse is everyday life. Normal

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
And again
St. John warned of false prophets we can see them in history and today from , Jim Jones to Scofield.

The point is normal, pick a year find the newspaper read the head lines…
Praise God each day is one day closer to His return!

 

[Elijah674]

1.
Thank you. I believe He will return. When I don’t have a clue.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of warsand rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

When in our world looking back at history does the above verse not fit? Wars and rumours of wars is the norm.


Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Again the above verse is everyday life. Normal

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
And again
St. John warned of false prophets we can see them in history and today from , Jim Jones to Scofield.

The point is normal, pick a year find the newspaper read the head lines…
Praise God each day is one day closer to His return!

What does Matt. 24:14 teach?

 

[Hitch]

What does Matt. 24:14 teach?

That when the gospel has reached around the then known civilized world the full end of the prechrisitian era willl have been realized. As per the writer of Hebrews 9;26.

 

[warhorse]

I believe the tribulation has been continues but that also there will be about three and one half years at the closing of the age where the antichrist will rule and where the persecution of both the church and Israel will be the worse in history.

I agree completly, i also believe that the time of the two witnesses 3 1/2 years coinsides with the reign of the man of sin.

 

[warhorse]

Ok Sam here is your chance, you claimed Jesus said he was coming back to establish his kingdom , quote Jesus saying that iether you can quote Jesus saying that or you have presumptuously added to scripture, which is it?


Jesus said He would return in the sky and gather His saints,repay the evil world,bind satan, and establish His kingdom,why do you not believe these words of Jesus?

Did you notice how quietly Sam altered his position ? LOL

John 14v1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Rev 21v1 And I saw a new HEAVEN and a new earth: for the first HEAVEN and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of HEAVEN, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of HEAVEN saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

 

[Hitch]

John 14v1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Rev 21v1 And I saw a new HEAVEN and a new earth: for the first HEAVEN and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of HEAVEN, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of HEAVEN saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

So ,, do you have any quotes from Jesus saying he's coming back to set up his kingdom? That is what Sam claimed to have . Surely you noticed the part of Sam's post emphasized in red?

 

[Sam21]

So ,, do you have any quotes from Jesus saying he's coming back to set up his kingdom? That is what Sam claimed to have . Surely you noticed the part of Sam's post emphasized in red?

That is why I did not answer him,you answered his question but he pretends that you did not answer his question,because he has this kind of an attitude it is not possible to tell him anything.

 

[warhorse]

So ,, do you have any quotes from Jesus saying he's coming back to set up his kingdom? That is what Sam claimed to have . Surely you noticed the part of Sam's post emphasized in red?

do you believe that only the words in red are true. Well then here...

Mathew 1347 Again, the KINGDOM of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Sam21]

1.
Thank you. I believe He will return. When I don’t have a clue.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of warsand rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

When in our world looking back at history does the above verse not fit? Wars and rumours of wars is the norm.


Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Again the above verse is everyday life. Normal

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
And again
St. John warned of false prophets we can see them in history and today from , Jim Jones to Scofield.

The point is normal, pick a year find the newspaper read the head lines…
Praise God each day is one day closer to His return!

Thanks, good reply,you are waiting on the return of the Lord,so am I. I was thinking of the statement by Jesus to the disciples that it was not for them to know the times or the seasons that the Father has placed in His power. We don't know them either,however I believe that the generation(christians) alive when Christ returns will recognize the signs of His return.

 

[Elijah674]

Re: Tribulation...

Originally Posted by Elijah674
What does Matt. 24:14 teach?
__________

Is it Hitch? (whatever?) Elijah back with this from you:


'That when the gospel has reached around the then known civilized world the full end of the prechrisitian era will have been realized. As per the writer of Hebrews 9;26.'

OK: Me again, do you believe in Eccl. 3:14 that is as clear a warning about '.. it shall be for ever nothing can be put to it, nor anything [taken from it:] and God doeth it..' & that is the same WARNING as Rev. 22 closes out with, except it states that ones name can be & will be REMOVED FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE when anyone knowingly violates the Warning.

So, find me if you will where this God of mine has ever said such a thing, OK? 'That when the gospel has reached around the then known civilized world the full end of the prechrisitian era will have been realized. As per the writer of Hebrews 9;26.'
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