Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe

[Free]

Scholars have wondered if John 1 is a Gnostic corruption because it contradicts other verses. In Mark, Yahshua addresses God as a separate being who created the heavens.
Mark 13:19
because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.

Here are also some other verses that contradict John 1.
Acts 17:24 24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being. ’As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.â€
Ephesians 3:9
and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Colossians 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Revelation 4:11
“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.â€

Firstly, Eph 3:9 and Rev 4:11 do not preclude Christ from being the creator as well.

Secondly, Col 1:16 is a clear reference to Christ, and one that shows direct support for John 1.

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Very clearly a reference to Christ being the creator or at least involved in the creation process in some way. Again, there is no other understanding that can be had other than Christ himself was not created.

This is also all supported by 1 Cor 8:6:

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

 

[JudaicChristian]

The Nobel laureate S.Y. Agnon said, "Reading a text in translation is like kissing a bride through her veil".

Everett Fox is currently my favorite translator and expositor b/c of his work, "The Five Books of Moses". Here then is a excerpt from his work about "The Face of God" from Gen 32:21.

The appearance of the single word in the passage calls attention to the theme of the passage; that theme continues and is developed through the entire reading.

Moshe Sokolow explained well in his article, Vayishlah: Face to Face, "The very next verse (32:22) tells us that "The gift went on ahead" (literally: ahead of his face), "and he spent the night in camp." During that night, Jacob wrestles with "a man" (32:25) and, in the morning, coins the name of Peniel (literally: face of God) for the site of their struggle, declaring: "For I have seen God, face to face, and my life has been spared" (32:30). Later that same day, he is reunited with Esau. They embrace, kiss, and weep. Esau initially declines Jacob's presents, prompting Jacob to respond: "If I have found favor in your eyes, then take this present from my hand, for, after all, I have seen your face as one sees the face of God, and you have been gracious to me" (33:10).

Having struggled with cunning Esau at birth, with his treacherous uncle Laban in Haran, and, lastly, with the angel of the Lord, Jacob is at last be ready to assume the burden of the name he had won barely a few hours earlier. No longer is he Yaakov the crooked grabber but Yisrael the upright wrestler with God—the name borne by his people ever since. Yaakov's walk was affected by his encounter with the Lord God.

This passage under consideration here is translated Hebrew Names Version:


The name of the place where Ya'akov wrestled and where his name was changed is called Peniel, the Face of God. I fail to understand how you go from this to the conclusion that Jesus was the embodiment of the "messenger" that you say is named Peniel. My thought is that Jacob was able to fight and prevail because of his earlier prayer offered when he feared his brother Esau, "And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude." Jacob recalled the promise of the Blessing of God and continued in faith, doubting nothing regarding the promise. It was that belief that strengthened him in his fight that night and emboldened him to say, "I will not let thee go, except thou bless me." Jacob asked the name of the one with whom he wrestled but only received the reply, "Wherefore [is] it [that] thou dost ask after my name?"

Jacob named the place, "The Face of God," that is, "Peniel," saying that he had seen the face of God. There is much more to this passage than what meets the eye and it is something to ponder as we continue to wonder about the Ancient of Days, our God. The idea that I come away with is that we know that God loves us and it is the strength of that knowledge that allows us to persist in our struggle. That is but part of what the Word of Truth conveys as the "face of God".

Enoch 40:9. seen and whose words I have heard and written down?' And he said to me: 'This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named {Phanuel / Peniel.} Yahshua appears as God in his second coming.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Firstly, Eph 3:9 and Rev 4:11 do not preclude Christ from being the creator as well.

Secondly, Col 1:16 is a clear reference to Christ, and one that shows direct support for John 1.

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Very clearly a reference to Christ being the creator or at least involved in the creation process in some way. Again, there is no other understanding that can be had other than Christ himself was not created.

This is also all supported by 1 Cor 8:6:

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

And what of Mark?

Yahshua addresses God as a separate being who created the heavens.
Mark 13:19
because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.

 

[Free]

And what of Mark?

Yahshua addresses God as a separate being who created the heavens.
Mark 13:19
because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.

Again, the same thing. That Jesus refers to God in no way precludes him from being God.

 

[Elijah674]

Enoch 40:9. seen and whose words I have heard and written down?' And he said to me: 'This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named {Phanuel / Peniel.} Yahshua appears as God in his second coming.

You seem to have a hard time understanding that Christ the Rock as God in the OT can only speak as Christ/God/Man/Adam when the Proverb's plan was consumated and became a reality?? Note Rom. 4:17's last part of the verse.

In all of your postings I do like the Lamp-Stand! But do you have any idea as to what the middle 'Candelstick' signifies? And if its not the Eternal Christ/God's meaning?? What is the illustration for?? 1 Cor. 10:2-3 + Exod. 25:37-40, & take note of ibid 31-32 with the center shaft being for the light of the world as well! And a heavenly pattern. And 5:14 for 'us'? And Christ? John 3:19 + *John 8:12 + *John 9:5??? Take note that this LIGHT WAS FOR THE [[[WORLD]]], not earth? ETERNAL GOSPEL! Rev. 14:6

---Elijah

 

[Sparkey]

"Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping [him (that is, worshipping Jesus)], and desiring a certain thing of him. And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, "Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other [one] on the left, in thy kingdom." - Matthew 20:20-21 KJV

The word "one" that is translated into English as "the one on thy right" and "the other on the left," is actually the same one (1) word --but the translators used different phrases when they translated it. "Heis" is Greek for the ordinal number one (1). Sometimes that word is translated "a certain one" other times, other ways but the authority of the ordinal number (in the Greek) is understood. God is one (found in Gal 3:20) uses the same word and the same authority of the ordinal number (1) that is found a couple verses later where we are told, "for ye are all one (1) in Christ Jesus," (Gal 3:28).

God is one
== θεός ἐστί εἷς
== Theos esti heis
God is ONE (1)


Ye are all one in Christ Jesus
== πᾶς εἷς ἐν Χριστός Ἰησοῦς .
== pas heis en Christos Iēsous
Ye are all ONE (1) in Christ Jesus


That is how Jesus prayed that we (his disciples and followers) become one (1) with the Father even as he is ONE (2) with the Father. :

Translating this prayer to mean anything other than the ordinal number one (1) is merely wrong as it denies the truth that the Holy Spirit speaks to us while revealing the mystery: "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one [only one] flesh." - (Eph 5:31) The Greek is explicit, doubly explicit there:

... and they two shall be one [only one] flesh
== καί δύο ἔσομαι εἰς μία σάρξ
== kai dyo esomai eis mia sarx
and -- they two -- shall be -- one -- [only one] -- flesh. .

We know not what we shall be, but we shall be like Him (1Jn 3:2).

Question: Why didn't Jesus rebuke or at least correct the mother of the sons of Zebedee when she came worshipping him? Surely we know that worshiping the creation (and not the creator) is idolatry. Jesus accepted her without rebuke and merely asked, What is it that you would desire, or "What wilt thou?"

 

[Sparkey]

Many things have been explained in parables:

"And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast. ...

Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live. And Jesus arose, and followed him, and [so did] his disciples." - Matthew 9:15, 17-19 KJV

We see that Jesus knew himself to be the Groom, mentioned in the Mystery that Paul explained when he said, "The two shall become one [only one] flesh."

The pouring of the wine into old wine skins speaks of the joy we have as the Holy Ghost is poured out unto us, becoming the earnst of our inheritance.

 

[JudaicChristian]

"Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping [him (that is, worshipping Jesus)], and desiring a certain thing of him. And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, "Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other [one] on the left, in thy kingdom." - Matthew 20:20-21 KJV

The word "one" that is translated into English as "the one on thy right" and "the other on the left," is actually the same one (1) word --but the translators used different phrases when they translated it. "Heis" is Greek for the ordinal number one (1). Sometimes that word is translated "a certain one" other times, other ways but the authority of the ordinal number (in the Greek) is understood. God is one (found in Gal 3:20) uses the same word and the same authority of the ordinal number (1) that is found a couple verses later where we are told, "for ye are all one (1) in Christ Jesus," (Gal 3:28).

God is one
== θεός ἐστί εἷς
== Theos esti heis
God is ONE (1)


Ye are all one in Christ Jesus
== πᾶς εἷς ἐν Χριστός Ἰησοῦς .
== pas heis en Christos Iēsous
Ye are all ONE (1) in Christ Jesus


That is how Jesus prayed that we (his disciples and followers) become one (1) with the Father even as he is ONE (2) with the Father. :

Translating this prayer to mean anything other than the ordinal number one (1) is merely wrong as it denies the truth that the Holy Spirit speaks to us while revealing the mystery: "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one [only one] flesh." - (Eph 5:31) The Greek is explicit, doubly explicit there:



We know not what we shall be, but we shall be like Him (1Jn 3:2).

Question: Why didn't Jesus rebuke or at least correct the mother of the sons of Zebedee when she came worshipping him? Surely we know that worshiping the creation (and not the creator) is idolatry. Jesus accepted her without rebuke and merely asked, What is it that you would desire, or "What wilt thou?"

John 5:41
“I do not accept glorification from human beings,

Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ ”

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’ ”

In the scripture he is quoting, "the Lord" is Yahwah. Yahshua did rebuke the woman, saying he did not have the authority to decide who sits by him.

 

[Free]

John 5:41
“I do not accept glorification from human beings,

Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ â€

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’ â€

In the scripture he is quoting, "the Lord" is Yahwah. Yahshua did rebuke the woman, saying he did not have the authority to decide who sits by him.

And yet:

Mat 2:11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

Mat 14:33 And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

Mat 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

Mat 28:17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.

Luk 24:51 While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven.
Luk 24:52 And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,
Luk 24:53 and were continually in the temple blessing God.

Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
Joh 9:36 He answered, "And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?"
Joh 9:37 Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you."
Joh 9:38 He said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.

 

[Sparkey]

John 5:41
“I do not accept glorification from human beings,

John, Chapter 5 --->
"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. ... I receive not honour from men. ... How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that [cometh] from God only?" - John 5:37, 41, 44 KJV

Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ ”

Matthew Chapter 4 --->
"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." - Matthew 4:8-10 KJV

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’ ”

Luke Chapter 4 --->
"And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." - Luke 4:6-8 KJV

In the scripture he is quoting, "the Lord" is Yahwah. Yahshua did rebuke the woman, saying he did not have the authority to decide who sits by him.

That is hardly a rebuke. Simply saying no to the request that her sons sit at the left and the right side can in no way be considered a rebuke. She came worshipping him, Jesus accepted her without rebuke and merely asked, What is it that you would desire, or "What wilt thou?" To her request, he replied that honor would be given to the ones that his Father had prepared it for. I would like to hear your reply to Free's post and would ask you to not harden your heart to what the Spirit is saying to you through those who wish to serve you.

 

[JudaicChristian]

The act of worshiping any being but Yahwah was punishable by death. Most likely the words "pay tribute" or "honour" were replaced with the word "worship." It is an act that is a very big deal in the Jewish community, but yet you see no mention in the New Testament or history about any Jews objecting. The Messiah to come (yahshua) was never to be a being to be worshipped. This would have been an extremely big deal in the Jewish community if it was truly taking place. And that is one of a number of reasons the Jewish community rejects the New Testament as being the word of God. Yahshua directed us to worship Yahwah only, and stated that he does not accept any glory from mankind.

 

[JudaicChristian]

That is hardly a rebuke. Simply saying no to the request that her sons sit at the left and the right side can in no way be considered a rebuke. She came worshipping him, Jesus accepted her without rebuke and merely asked, What is it that you would desire, or "What wilt thou?" To her request, he replied that honor would be given to the ones that his Father had prepared it for. I would like to hear your reply to Free's post and would ask you to not harden your heart to what the Spirit is saying to you through those who wish to serve you.

The word rebuke was your choice to use. Yahshua did correct the woman and that is all that matters.

 

[Sparkey]

The act of worshiping any being but Yahwah was punishable by death. Most likely the words "pay tribute" or "honour" were replaced with the word "worship." It is an act that is a very big deal in the Jewish community, but yet you see no mention in the New Testament or history about any Jews objecting. The Messiah to come (yahshua) was never to be a being to be worshiped. This would have been an extremely big deal in the Jewish community if it was truly taking place. And that is one of a number of reasons the Jewish community rejects the New Testament as being the word of God. Yahshua directed us to worship Yahwah only, and stated that he does not accept any glory from mankind.

You've stated that I see "no mention of the Jews objecting," to Jesus claim to be one with the Father. This is simply untrue. That was the very reason our Lord was crucified.


"Proskyneō" - the act of prostrating oneself - of bowing down, either symbolically or in action is often translated "worship". Jesus was likely quoting "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:" - Exodus 34:14 when he rebuked Satan for suggesting that Jesus bow down and pay obeisance.

 

[Sparkey]

He claimed that he was the Son of God and as you say, he received that honor from God Himself (not from man): "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount." - 2 Peter 1:16-18 KJV

Jesus claimed that he was the "Son of Man" and this statement forms what is called the "Doctrine of Christ," mentioned in 2 John, "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." - 2 John 1:9 KJV

Your statement that Jesus was not the Logos of God, together with the contrivience that Jesus was not worshiped and that the Jews had no objection to His claim to be one with the Father is similar to the statements that have been made by cults who claim that Jesus was a creature.

 

[JudaicChristian]

You've stated that I see "no mention of the Jews objecting," to Jesus claim to be one with the Father. This is simply untrue. That was the very reason our Lord was crucified.


"Proskyneō" - the act of prostrating oneself - of bowing down, either symbolically or in action is often translated "worship". Jesus was likely quoting "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:" - Exodus 34:14 when he rebuked Satan for suggesting that Jesus bow down and pay obeisance.

Yahshua never said he was God the Father, nor did anyone believe that. Scriptures make it plain as can be that being "one" is referring to unity. Yahshua said he was a god, and that he was the Son of God. The Jews accused him of claiming to have power equal to God. Yahshua did not say that he was God, he said he has been given authority over life and death, and the authority to judge.

Matthew 16:15
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

 

[JudaicChristian]

He claimed that he was the Son of God and as you say, he received that honor from God Himself (not from man): "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount." - 2 Peter 1:16-18 KJV

Jesus claimed that he was the "Son of Man" and this statement forms what is called the "Doctrine of Christ," mentioned in 2 John, "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." - 2 John 1:9 KJV

Your statement that Jesus was not the Logos of God, together with the contrivience that Jesus was not worshiped and that the Jews had no objection to His claim to be one with the Father is similar to the statements that have been made by cults who claim that Jesus was a creature.

I never said that Yahshua is not the word of God. No one complained about him saying they are one, because they knew he was speaking about unity. The word creature is also translanted as "living being."

 

[Prince]

Yahshua never said he was God the Father, nor did anyone believe that. Scriptures make it plain as can be that being "one" is referring to unity. Yahshua said he was a god, and that he was the Son of God. The Jews accused him of claiming to have power equal to God. Yahshua did not say that he was God, he said he has been given authority over life and death, and the authority to judge.

Matthew 16:15
“But what about you?†he asked. “Who do you say I am?â€

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.â€

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

Hello

The bible tells us that Jesus and the Father and the Spirit are one.

1 John 5:7 King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jesus said that He and the Father are one

John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

Thomas said that Jesus was is Lord and his God.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

The book of Matthew says that Jesus is God with us

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

and in the Ot book of Isaiah it reads

King James Bible
Isiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, (jesus) unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[Sparkey]

I never said that Yahshua is not the word of God. No one complained about him saying they are one, because they knew he was speaking about unity. The word creature is also translanted as "living being."

So when the Jews took up rocks to stone Him, you conclude, "No one complained..."

Your statement that nobody complained or even objected stretches credulity.

 

[cleanfreak]

Hello

The bible tells us that Jesus and the Father and the Spirit are one.

1 John 5:7 King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:7. The latter part of that verse does not exist in the original Greek Manuscripts. " the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." was added around year 1500.

King James Bible
Isiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, (jesus) unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

'mighty God' used here was EL Gibber, not EL SHADDAI = ALMIGHTY God

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Question: Why didn't Jesus rebuke or at least correct the mother of the sons of Zebedee when she came worshipping him? Surely we know that worshiping the creation (and not the creator) is idolatry. Jesus accepted her without rebuke and merely asked, What is it that you would desire, or "What wilt thou?"

Many pro deity of Jesus proponents have brought this issue up as if it is a given that only God is to be worshipped. Is that the case or can we find numerous biblical accounts of people from masters to kings to husbands and to God's Anointed Jesus accepting worship?

Matthew 18:26, 1 Chronicles 29:20

We often misunderstand what worship is and what it means. What worship means in scripture is simply to 'bow down' to or 'pay homage' to. So whether the case is a wife calling her husband lord or a servant bowing before a king we need to understand that the scriptural picture of worship has to do with showing the proper respect (homage) to what has been ordained by God.


We also must be mindful that there was a reason WHY Jesus was deemed worthy of glory, honor, and praise. Look at Revelation 5:12, Mark 9:7, and Philipians 2:8b-9 which reads:

he humbled himself and became obedient to death… yes, death on a pole. 9 This is why God promoted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above all others,

Jesus was anointed by God to be in a position to be worshipped.