Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

[holy999]

what does he mean say me it

 

[Jethro Bodine]

what does he mean say me it

The fulfillment of prophecy is sure. This life won't pass away before that word is fulfilled. It will happen. This creation will pass away, but his words will never pass away.


Matthew 24:33-35
33So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That generation saw the fulfillment of those prophesies with their own eyes. That’s the most obvious.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That generation saw the fulfillment of those prophesies with their own eyes. That’s the most obvious.

Huh?

Matthew 24:30-31
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 

[Free]

That generation saw the fulfillment of those prophesies with their own eyes. That’s the most obvious.

It seems to me that it isn't so straightforward and simple as that. It all begins with 24:1-3:

Mat 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Mat 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” (ESV)

In response to Jesus's statement that all the stones of the temple will be thrown down, the disciples ask three (or two, depending on how one breaks it down) questions:

1. "When will these things be?" This refers to the destruction of the temple.
2. "What will be the sign of your coming?"
3. "What will be the sign of the end of the age?"

The discourse that follows answers those questions. So, when we get to verse 34, we have to consider what has been said and what is left unsaid:

Mat 24:33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
Mat 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (ESV)

The things that the disciples shall see--"all these things"--seem to be all the things prior to Christ's return--"you know that he is near, at the very gates." Those are the things spoken of in verses 4-28, answering questions 1 and 2. Question 3 is answered with his coming again, in verses 29-31. Besides, we know that he hasn't returned, so "all these things" cannot include his return.

It also needs to be mentioned that "generation" has several meanings, and which one is meant is debated. It can mean simply "generation," but it can also mean "race" or "nation."

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It seems to me that it isn't so straightforward and simple as that. It all begins with 24:1-3:

Mat 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Mat 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” (ESV)

In response to Jesus's statement that all the stones of the temple will be thrown down, the disciples ask three (or two, depending on how one breaks it down) questions:

1. "When will these things be?" This refers to the destruction of the temple.
2. "What will be the sign of your coming?"
3. "What will be the sign of the end of the age?"

The discourse that follows answers those questions. So, when we get to verse 34, we have to consider what has been said and what is left unsaid:

Mat 24:33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
Mat 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (ESV)

The things that the disciples shall see--"all these things"--seem to be all the things prior to Christ's return--"you know that he is near, at the very gates." Those are the things spoken of in verses 4-28, answering questions 1 and 2. Question 3 is answered with his coming again, in verses 29-31. Besides, we know that he hasn't returned, so "all these things" cannot include his return.

It also needs to be mentioned that "generation" has several meanings, and which one is meant is debated. It can mean simply "generation," but it can also mean "race" or "nation."

Those are different questions with obviously different answers as the time points are wide apart. For example, the signs for the end of the Mosaic covenant age had many signs. There are no signs at all previous to the coming of Christ same as there were no signs before the flood. That is what Jesus said. Life would be going on as usual, people marrying and giving in marriage...same as normal. No signs.

There is no question that the templed was destroyed as described in 70AD. Not one stone was left upon another as Jesus said. It was preceded by many signs which that generation of Christians recognized as the fulfillment and left Jerusalem escaping the destruction as Jesus warned. They knew those words were for them. And that generation saw this as well as the other horrible events predicted. "Generation" in that passage, from what I understand, means that period of people living. It does not mean "race" which is a different word. So no, it does not mean different things. It means those people living there at that time.

 

[Free]

Those are different questions with obviously different answers as the time points are wide apart.

Which is exactly my point.

There is no question that the templed was destroyed as described in 70AD. Not one stone was left upon another as Jesus said. It was preceded by many signs which that generation of Christians recognized as the fulfillment and left Jerusalem escaping the destruction as Jesus warned. They knew those words were for them.

But that just begs the question as to which words, since, as you agree, the disciples asked "different questions with obviously different answers as the time points are wide apart." Some of the words are answers to the first question, some to the second, and some to the third.

And that generation saw this as well as the other horrible events predicted. "Generation" in that passage, from what I understand, means that period of people living. It does not mean "race" which is a different word. So no, it does not mean different things. It means those people living there at that time.

Right. I misread something. But, it can mean "nation" or "age." The Greek word is genea:

Thayer Definition:

1) fathered, birth, nativity
2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation
3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

Strong:

by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time.

It is used 42 times in the KJV: generation 37, time 2, age 2, nation 1

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/genea.html

My only point with that, is that even scholars debate what is meant with this text, in part because "generation" has several nuanced meanings and because it clearly has not all come to pass, which means it isn't all that simple and straightforward to understand.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Which is exactly my point.


But that just begs the question as to which words, since, as you agree, the disciples asked "different questions with obviously different answers as the time points are wide apart." Some of the words are answers to the first question, some to the second, and some to the third.


Right. I misread something. But, it can mean "nation" or "age." The Greek word is genea:

Thayer Definition:

1) fathered, birth, nativity
2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation
3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

Strong:

by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time.

It is used 42 times in the KJV: generation 37, time 2, age 2, nation 1

In that same passage "nation" is used and the word it ethos. It is not Genera. I looked up genera and it is translated generation each time. It is not translated as group of people over several generations. Now if it were to mean nation, they would have used "ethos" which is ethnic group. What Jesus is saying is the Jews will not die until all this is fulfilled which is fairly impossible as they are now scattered over the whole of the planet and what is more, I doubt any christian thinks the Jews will all one day pass away. Is that what you believe? When these things you think are future happen he Jews will all die out? That is how one has to read it right?

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/genea.html

My only point with that, is that even scholars debate what is meant with this text, in part because "generation" has several nuanced meanings and because it clearly has not all come to pass, which means it isn't all that simple and straightforward to understand.

No, nation is in Greek "ethos" and generation is "genera" meaning a group living in a certain time frame. But again, when it "clearly has all come to pass" will all the Jews around the world then "pass away?"

 

[Jethro Bodine]

In that same passage "nation" is used and the word it ethos. It is not Genera. I looked up genera and it is translated generation each time. It is not translated as group of people over several generations. Now if it were to mean nation, they would have used "ethos" which is ethnic group. What Jesus is saying is the Jews will not die until all this is fulfilled which is fairly impossible as they are now scattered over the whole of the planet and what is more, I doubt any christian thinks the Jews will all one day pass away. Is that what you believe? When these things you think are future happen he Jews will all die out? That is how one has to read it right?

No, nation is in Greek "ethos" and generation is "genera" meaning a group living in a certain time frame. But again, when it "clearly has all come to pass" will all the Jews around the world then "pass away?"

You are missing the entire point. Not all of what Jesus said has come to pass so there is no way to say this was all fulfilled for the generation he was speaking to.

That generation saw the fulfillment of those prophesies with their own eyes. That’s the most obvious.

 

[Free]

In that same passage "nation" is used and the word it ethos. It is not Genera.

The Greek word ethos does not mean "nation." In the KJV, it is translated as "custom," "manner," and "be wont."

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/ethos.html

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/ethos-2.html

I looked up genera and it is translated generation each time.

No, it isn't. To look it up, all you need to do is look at the link I provided. I gave the ways it is translated and the number of times for each: generation 37, time 2, age 2, nation 1.

It is not translated as group of people over several generations. Now if it were to mean nation, they would have used "ethos" which is ethnic group. What Jesus is saying is the Jews will not die until all this is fulfilled which is fairly impossible as they are now scattered over the whole of the planet and what is more, I doubt any christian thinks the Jews will all one day pass away. Is that what you believe? When these things you think are future happen he Jews will all die out? That is how one has to read it right?

"What Jesus is saying is the Jews will not die until all this is fulfilled which is fairly impossible as they are now scattered over the whole of the planet and what is more, I doubt any christian thinks the Jews will all one day pass away."

You have contradicted yourself, so I'm not sure what you mean.

No, nation is in Greek "ethos" and

I'm sure you misread something and meant another word.

generation is "genera" meaning a group living in a certain time frame.

It has several meanings, as I have shown. I believe the scholars who have stated the various meanings.

But again, when it "clearly has all come to pass" will all the Jews around the world then "pass away?"

It could simply mean that the Jews will cease to be a distinct people.

Again, my only point is that it is not so simple and straightforward. How one defines "generation" changes what has happened and what has yet to happen. Where one divides the text into what answers which question, changes what has happened and what has yet to happen.

You said that, "There is no question that the templed was destroyed as described in 70AD." And I agree. But there also is no question that Jesus hasn't returned yet, so not all those words were for the people he was talking to.

You also said that, "It was preceded by many signs which that generation of Christians recognized as the fulfillment and left Jerusalem escaping the destruction as Jesus warned." But where do Christians fit into this? Why do you bring Christians into the passage and then question me about Jews? This alone shows that it isn't as simple as you make it out to be.

 

[bellgamin]

Mat 24:34 Assuredly, I say to you, THIS generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. ---Capitalization added by me.

Q- In Mt 24.34, what is THIS generation? A- THIS generation is the generation that will exist at the time of the future events prophesied by Jesus, as recorded in Mt 24.29-31. Those events have not yet taken place. Those events will take place in the future.

OUR generation was in the future at the time when Matthew chapter 24 was written. Perhaps we are "THIS generation" and will experience the events mentioned in Mt 24.34. OR.... perhaps not. If not, then perhaps our children or our children's children shall be "THIS generation".

Bottom Line: Only God knows when "THIS generation" will exist and experience those events prophesied in Mt 24.29-31, but those events are absolutely certain to take place (see Note below).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTE: Some may think that "prophecy" is synonymous with "prediction." NOT SO. Unconditional Biblical prophecy is not God predicting what will happen. Rather, unconditional Biblical prophecy is God revealing what He has ordained. And what God ordains WILL take place -- no if's, and's, or but's.

 

[Free]

You are missing the entire point. Not all of what Jesus said has come to pass so there is no way to say this was all fulfilled for the generation he was speaking to.

I'm not even sure how people can argue to one generation, because there are always multiple generations alive at any given time.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The Greek word ethos does not mean "nation." In the KJV, it is translated as "custom," "manner," and "be wont."

Look up “nation will arise against nation” in the same chapter Matt 24, and the Greek uses “ethos.” It’s always been translated “nation.”

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/ethos.html

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/ethos-2.html


No, it isn't. To look it up, all you need to do is look at the link I provided. I gave the ways it is translated and the number of times for each: generation 37, time 2, age 2, nation 1.

I did better. I looked up the text and went back to the Greek and there it was, ethos as in nation from which we derive ethnic group or genera which was “generation” each time and where “ethnic group” makes no sense or sounds like genocide. Look up the scripture not a link.

"What Jesus is saying is the Jews will not die until all this is fulfilled which is fairly impossible as they are now scattered over the whole of the planet and what is more, I doubt any christian thinks the Jews will all one day pass away."

You have contradicted yourself, so I'm not sure what you mean.

Where? Your view is all the Jews will die when the scripture is fulfilled. Or?

It has several meanings, as I have shown. I believe the scholars who have stated the various meanings.

Not in the translations. I know learned men of particular personal opinions write articles. The translators don’t change between ethos and genera deciding which fits their eschatology…..or do they?

It could simply mean that the Jews will cease to be a distinct people.

You mean there are no Jews anymore? Really? Or do you mean the individual tribes or proven descendants disappears? Like in 70 AD?

Again, my only point is that it is not so simple and straightforward. How one defines "generation" changes what has happened and what has yet to happen. Where one divides the text into what answers which question, changes what has happened and what has yet to happen.

No it doesn’t. You said ONE time (no reference) genera was translated other than generation. The places I read where generation is used “nation” makes no sense.

You said that, "There is no question that the templed was destroyed as described in 70AD." And I agree. But there also is no question that Jesus hasn't returned yet, so not all those words were for the people he was talking to.

There was more than one question referring to events that won’t happen at the same time. You cannot deny that the temple was destroyed as Jesus said. That undeniable event shows those matters cannot possibly happen at the same time. One, at least, was completed in70 AD.

You also said that, "It was preceded by many signs which that generation of Christians recognized as the fulfillment and left Jerusalem escaping the destruction as Jesus warned." But where do Christians fit into this?

They left town when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies.

Why do you bring Christians into the passage and then question me about Jews? This alone shows that it isn't as simple as you make it out to be.

It’s very simple. The christians knew it was for them and they left escaping the destruction.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I'm not even sure how people can argue to one generation, because there are always multiple generations alive at any given time.

None of them be all gone before the events Jesus predicted would happen.

I’m not sure how one can ignore the destruction of the temple as being filled prophesy insisting a new one has to be built on the Muslim dome of the rock so that scripture can be fulfilled.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Mat 24:34 Assuredly, I say to you, THIS generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. ---Capitalization added by me.

Q- In Mt 24.34, what is THIS generation? A- THIS generation is the generation that will exist at the time of the future events prophesied by Jesus, as recorded in Mt 24.29-31. Those events have not yet taken place. Those events will take place in the future.

The destruction of the temple took place in 70 AD and THAT generation, all of them, hadn’t yet passed away. That is undeniably past.

OUR generation was in the future at the time when Matthew chapter 24 was written. Perhaps we are "THIS generation" and will experience the events mentioned in Mt 24.34. OR.... perhaps not. If not, then perhaps our children or our children's children shall be "THIS generation".

I heard that too but the problem is it says those who pierced him will see it. Those who pierced him are all long dead.

Bottom Line: Only God knows when "THIS generation" will exist and experience those events prophesied in Mt 24.29-31, but those events are absolutely certain to take place (see Note below).

They, the awful ones, already did and as described. Jesus has not come though.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTE: Some may think that "prophecy" is synonymous with "prediction." NOT SO. Unconditional Biblical prophecy is not God predicting what will happen. Rather, unconditional Biblical prophecy is God revealing what He has ordained. And what God ordains WILL take place -- no if's, and's, or but's.

Is what He ordained NOT in the future?

 

[bellgamin]

Dorothy Mae wrote:

The destruction of the temple took place in 70 AD and THAT generation, all of them, hadn’t yet passed away. That is undeniably past.

The prophecies given by Jesus in Matthew chapter 24 extended from the near-term future (70 AD) into events in the more distant future -- pre-tribulation events, the great tribulation itself, second coming. THOSE are the events that THIS generation will experience, NOT the events described in Mt 24.4-8.

I am uninterested in debating clear Scripture. When the plain sense makes common sense, I seek no other sense -- else one may end up with nonsense. (^_^)

I take note that interpreting the entirety of Mt 24 as having already been fulfilled is a preterist viewpoint. That's a view that some Christians hold. I do not.

Fortunately, one's view of eschatology has zilch to do with salvation (John 3.16, Rom 10.9-10, et al).

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dorothy Mae wrote:The prophecies given by Jesus in Matthew chapter 24 extended from the near-term future (70 AD) into events in the more distant future -- pre-tribulation events, the great tribulation itself, second coming. THOSE are the events that THIS generation will experience, NOT the events described in Mt 24.4-8.

The “this generation” events were only the judgement ones, not all and that is in the text.

I am uninterested in debating clear Scripture.

Why do you quote it if your uninterested in debating scripture? Or do you mean what you think it means is clear and you’re uninterested in considering your thinking might be incorrect? “Don’t confuse me with scripture, I’ve already made up my mind.”

When the plain sense makes common sense, I seek no other sense -- else one may end up with nonsense. (^_^)

That “This” means some other one makes no sense.

I take note that interpreting the entirety of Mt 24 as having already been fulfilled is a preterist viewpoint. That's a view that some Christians hold. I do not.

Who does this? Talk to them.

Fortunately, one's view of eschatology has zilch to do with salvation (John 3.16, Rom 10.9-10, et al).

Correct, but the bogeyman eschatology sure steals hope and joy.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No it doesn’t. You said ONE time (no reference) genera was translated other than generation. The places I read where generation is used “nation” makes no sense.

And so context dictates that Jesus must be using one of the other legitimate definitions/meanings/usages of the word. You don't have to try and squeeze a passage or verse into all the meanings and usages of a word. Logically, you use the one that fits the context and which does not cause that passage or verse to be un-rightly divided out from the whole counsel of scripture.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Where? Your view is all the Jews will die when the scripture is fulfilled. Or?

And so you can see it doesn't make sense to use the definition of the word that you are using.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The translators don’t change between ethos and genera deciding which fits their eschatology…..or do they?

No, not necessarily. They change to the particular definition of the word, if it has more than one (and this one does), that makes sense and fits the immediate context of the passage and the context of the whole counsel of scripture itself.

Forgive me for butting in here, Free . I know she is addressing you and I know you can hold your own, but I can't resist jumping in here, lol.