Unconditional Election

[Whatever]

If you agree that we're in the end times

The end times have been here for 2,000 years. Everybody thinks they are the privileged generation that will see Jesus come. In 1991 John F. Walvoord claimed that the rapture would occur in his life time. He did in 2002. He was claimed to be the world's foremost interpreter of Bible prophecy.

Hal Lindsey also predicted 1988 as the year of Christ's return.
Christianity Today asked him about the risk of failed predictions when he published The Terminal Generation.
“There’s just a split second’s difference between a hero and a bum,” Lindsey said. “I didn’t ask to be a hero, but I guess I have become one in the Christian community. So I accept it. But if I’m wrong about this, I guess I’ll become a bum.”
Being a failed bum, Christians have kept buying his books by the millions.

To many, “Edgar Whisenant” became a household name. Whisenant, a former NASA rocket engineer turned prophecy teacher, became famous through a booklet that included two of his works: 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Could be in 1988 and On Borrowed Time. In this booklet, Whisenant predicted that Jesus would return to rapture His church sometime during the Jewish holiday of Rosh-Hashanah in 1988, which was from sunset, September 11, to sunset, September 13. Before those dates, The World Bible Society, which published the booklet, printed 3.2 million copies and distributed 200,000 of them to pastors throughout the United States.

When the September prediction failed, Whisenant updated the time to October 3. Now that date, too, has fallen through. Whisenant nevertheless remains undaunted: “The evidence is all over the place that it is going to be in a few weeks anyway.”

Read more about it here.

88 Reasons: What Went Wrong? - Christian Research Institute

This article first appeared in Christian Research Journal, volume 11, number 2 (Fall 1988). The full text of the article can be obtained by clicking here. For further information or to subscribe to the Christian Research Journal go to: http://www.equip.org/christian-research-journal/ To many...

www.equip.org

 

[Whatever]

I see so God sent His Son to save the cosmos, but not unsaved people?
Is that really what you believe?

Everybody was unsaved when God sent His Son. Yes, God only sent His Son to save a remnant of humanity.

Isaiah 1:9 Unless the LORD of hosts Had left to us a very small remnant, We would have become like Sodom, We would have been made like Gomorrah.

Isaiah 10:22 For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea, A remnant of them will return; The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

Paul quotes the 10:22 verse in Romans and changes the word "return" to "saved."

Romans 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,

Believe what Scripture says and put away your human centered idea of fairness.

 

[JLB]

Everybody was unsaved when God sent His Son. Yes, God only sent His Son to save a remnant of humanity.

Isaiah 1:9 Unless the LORD of hosts Had left to us a very small remnant, We would have become like Sodom, We would have been made like Gomorrah.

Isaiah 10:22 For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea, A remnant of them will return; The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

Paul quotes the 10:22 verse in Romans and changes the word "return" to "saved."

Romans 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,

Believe what Scripture says and put away your human centered idea of fairness.

I thought you said God sent His Son to save the Cosmos, not people.

Now it’s people but just a remnant?

Let’s see what the scripture says…

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Nope not a remnant but God sent His Son to shed His blood for the world.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 3:17


God desires the unsaved people of the world to be saved.





JLB

 

[Whatever]

I thought you said God sent His Son to save the Cosmos, not people.

No! It says God so loved the Cosmos (His creation) and because of this He send His Son to save those who believe. Or rather that they not perish.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Yes, the whole creation is saved.

Romans 8:21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

But the New Heavens and the New Earth will not have billions of people and animals that were in the original creation. Just like when people say "save the whales." They mean save the species, don't let it go extinct.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' 11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.

What kind of god do you believe in? A god that desires things that never come to pass.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The end times have been here for 2,000 years. Everybody thinks they are the privileged generation that will see Jesus come. In 1991 John F. Walvoord claimed that the rapture would occur in his life time. He did in 2002. He was claimed to be the world's foremost interpreter of Bible prophecy.

Hal Lindsey also predicted 1988 as the year of Christ's return.
Christianity Today asked him about the risk of failed predictions when he published The Terminal Generation.
“There’s just a split second’s difference between a hero and a bum,” Lindsey said. “I didn’t ask to be a hero, but I guess I have become one in the Christian community. So I accept it. But if I’m wrong about this, I guess I’ll become a bum.”
Being a failed bum, Christians have kept buying his books by the millions.

To many, “Edgar Whisenant” became a household name. Whisenant, a former NASA rocket engineer turned prophecy teacher, became famous through a booklet that included two of his works: 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Could be in 1988 and On Borrowed Time. In this booklet, Whisenant predicted that Jesus would return to rapture His church sometime during the Jewish holiday of Rosh-Hashanah in 1988, which was from sunset, September 11, to sunset, September 13. Before those dates, The World Bible Society, which published the booklet, printed 3.2 million copies and distributed 200,000 of them to pastors throughout the United States.

When the September prediction failed, Whisenant updated the time to October 3. Now that date, too, has fallen through. Whisenant nevertheless remains undaunted: “The evidence is all over the place that it is going to be in a few weeks anyway.”

Read more about it here.

88 Reasons: What Went Wrong? - Christian Research Institute

This article first appeared in Christian Research Journal, volume 11, number 2 (Fall 1988). The full text of the article can be obtained by clicking here. For further information or to subscribe to the Christian Research Journal go to: http://www.equip.org/christian-research-journal/ To many...

www.equip.org

Nonetheless it's a biblical fact that there's a definitive end when the whole world bears witness of the gospel, also, the time is near when the fig tree grows leaves, that's a metaphor for the revival of Israel, which had NOT been there until after the world war II.

 

[Whatever]

Nonetheless it's a biblical fact that there's a definitive end when the whole world bears witness of the gospel

They will bend their knee and admit that Jesus Christ is Lord.

also, the time is near when the fig tree grows leaves

People have been saying that for hundreds of years. It might still be hundreds of years away.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

They will bend their knee and admit that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Or worship the Beast as the christ, as prophesized.

People have been saying that for hundreds of years. It might still be hundreds of years away.

Nobody'd been saying that, replacement theology had been the norm, Israel a bygone tale until its revival in 1948. That never happened any time in history since the sacking of Jerusalem.

 

[Whatever]

Nobody'd been saying that, replacement theology had been the norm, Israel a bygone tale until its revival in 1948. That never happened any time in history since the sacking of Jerusalem.

I was talking about the rapture or the second coming. Many books were written and sold as best sellers telling us why the rapture would happen in 1988. Then when it didn't happen, these same false prophets kept writing books about end times prophecy and people kept buying them.

Edgar C. Whisenant's book "88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988" predicted that the rapture would occur during the Jewish holiday of Rosh Hashanah in 1988, based on his interpretation of biblical texts and numerology. Despite the widespread attention and sales, the prediction did not come true, leading to various updates and further predictions by Whisenant in subsequent years.

 

[JLB]

I was talking about the rapture or the second coming. Many books were written and sold as best sellers telling us why the rapture would happen in 1988. Then when it didn't happen, these same false prophets kept writing books about end times prophecy and people kept buying them.

Edgar C. Whisenant's book "88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988" predicted that the rapture would occur during the Jewish holiday of Rosh Hashanah in 1988, based on his interpretation of biblical texts and numerology. Despite the widespread attention and sales, the prediction did not come true, leading to various updates and further predictions by Whisenant in subsequent years.

The topic of this thread is Unconditional Election.

Please post scripture that pertains to this topic.

If you want to discuss the second coming or the rapture then please start a thread about it. I will be glad to start the thread for you if you don’t know how.

That is an important topic. I will be glad to participate but not in this thread.


Thanks. JLB

 

[Whatever]

If you want to discuss the second coming or the rapture

Tell that to Carry_Your_Name. I answer questions to what ever thread they are posted in. I actually prefer to stay off the end times forum.

​

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I was talking about the rapture or the second coming. Many books were written and sold as best sellers telling us why the rapture would happen in 1988. Then when it didn't happen, these same false prophets kept writing books about end times prophecy and people kept buying them.

Edgar C. Whisenant's book "88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988" predicted that the rapture would occur during the Jewish holiday of Rosh Hashanah in 1988, based on his interpretation of biblical texts and numerology. Despite the widespread attention and sales, the prediction did not come true, leading to various updates and further predictions by Whisenant in subsequent years.

I was talking about the SIGNS of his coming, among which, some significant ones include the global reach of the gospel (Matt. 24:14), the revival of Israel (Matt. 24:33), the great apostasy (2 Thess. 2:3), the exposure of the Antichrist (2 Thess. 2:8). The most important and specific one is the great apostasy, UNLESS that happens, the end will not come. Did that book take any of these into account? In contrast, all the disasters, natural and man-made, the trials and tribulations, are merely "birth pains" - "See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is NOT yet". Wars, earthquakes, famines, cosmic disturbances, etc. might be the end of an era, such as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, but not the end of the world.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

I thought you said God sent His Son to save the Cosmos, not people.

Now it’s people but just a remnant?

Let’s see what the scripture says…

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Nope not a remnant but God sent His Son to shed His blood for the world.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 3:17


God desires the unsaved people of the world to be saved.





JLB

Yes, and a majority of that world reject Jesus. Why do you only quote verses 16 and 17, not the rest of the context? Perhaps, because those verses don't quite fit your idea, especially verse 19?
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. Compare with John 1:9-11 and Romans 1:18-20:
Joh 1:9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
Joh 1:11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.