[__ Science __ ] Turns out Covid Vaccine was not tested. Phizer lied.

[Barbarian]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Such a simple thing, and yet so hard for people to accept.

 

[WIP]

Correlation does not equal causation.

My stepdad was 75, a retired pharmacist, and believed at least some of the misinformation and disinformation about the injections. He also was against the other mandates. So, he and his wife went down to Texas (was supposed to be for 6 months) and loved their freedom, posting all about it on Facebook. Within two months both got COVID and he died; she was saved only because she was able to get the monoclonal antibody treatment. To this day, she denies he died from COVID (cognitive dissonance) and thinks that she recovered just fine, completely ignoring that she, too, would have died without treatment.

You're assuming that the monoclonal antibodies saved her life or not getting them resulted in your father's death. You may be right and you may be wrong but there's no way to prove one way or the other. The only thing we do have is that the evidence supports the possibility or maybe even probability that getting the treatment helped her recover.

 

[Barbarian]

No, that's wrong. Traffic accidents being caused by COVID-19 are indeed from the VAERS database. But no one with any sense actually assumes all those reports are valid. There are many valid reports therein, but also stuff of the sort you mentioned.

But I didn't look at the VAERS database when i got this information

That's ultimately from where it came. No one else blamed traffic accidents on COVID-19 virus. Here:

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires health care providers to report any serious adverse event (including death) that happens after a COVID-19 vaccination – whether or not the provider thinks there is any link. The CDC says, "Health care providers are required to report to VAERS the following adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination…regardless if the reporter thinks the vaccine caused the AE." AE stands for adverse event and includes death.

That means that if a vaccinated person drowns, gets in a car crash or is struck by lightning, their death must be reported to VAERS as an adverse event. Since we've vaccinated over 223 million people in the United States, many deaths will occur coincidentally after vaccination.

You asked, we answered: Does VAERS list deaths caused by COVID-19 vaccines?

Is it true that VAERS says 3,000 people have died from the COVID-19 vaccines?

www.nebraskamed.com

No reasonable person assumes that car crashes or lightning strikes are caused by the vaccine, even if some anti-vaxxers have tried to sell that story.

if you really want to know, I'll tell you where I got it from.

That would be helpful for all of us.

I'm just pointing out your error. Such reports are not taken as valid COVID-19 deaths unless it can be established that the virus caused the death.

And you just reply to whatever you think you can combat.

Facts matter. They should matter to you.

Your pride still wants you to remain right as you're still not addressing the conspiracy theories that came true

Hmm... I'm looking at all the ones that didn't. Maybe we should just judge each one by the evidence for and against that particular one. If Trump really did conspire with others to pay off a playboy bunny and a porn star to hide his sexual relations with them, that does not mean that the CDC is hiding a finding that COVID-19 causes motorcycle accidents.

why there were covid domains as far back as 1997!

You probably should know that COVID-19 is only one of several known COVID viruses. Is that the issue?

Common human coronaviruses, including types 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1, usually cause mild to moderate upper-respiratory tract illnesses, like the common cold. Most people get infected with one or more of these viruses at some point in their lives. This information applies to common human coronaviruses and should not be confused with coronavirus disease 2019 (formerly referred to as 2019 Novel Coronavirus).

Common Human Coronaviruses | CDC

Provides overview of the Common Human Coronavirus, including symptoms, transmission, prevention of viral respiratory infections, treatment, and testing.

www.cdc.gov

Because you know you can't argue that and you didn't expect me to bring up that,

Actually, I kinda suspected that you wouldn't know that there are other coronaviruses. Your haughty spirit rejects humility, and just wants to be right, even though you see that you don't understand the issue.

I'm pointing out that you've been confused by those odd reports. The database is meant to collect all reports from any source, after which researchers look at them to see what valid data is there. There are automobile accidents listed as adverse events, but understand that anyone can put a report in VAERS and there are many such events that have nothing to do with the virus or the vaccination.

As I said, if someone who has a severe reaction to the vaccine gets in an auto accident and dies, the death might be reported as being a reaction to the vaccination, depending on the specific cause of death. That's a different issue.

You get to pretend you didn't see anything that deflects you points and continue on fully qualified as if you've won.

It comes down to evidence. Reality is funny that way. I'd be happy to go over anything you think I missed in your arguments. Feel free.

You may be an immunologist or biologist,

My university and the AF thought so. Degrees and certifications impress them. Especially if they are in the relevant disciplines.

but I advise to take some courses in business, marketting, and finance.

I was certified as a trainer in the Xerox sales training course. I have some knowledge of information systems for marketing departments. But I never sold used cars or anything like that. Don't see that it has much to do with the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, though.

 

[Barbarian]

You're assuming that the monoclonal antibodies saved her life or not getting them resulted in your father's death. You may be right and you may be wrong but there's no way to prove one way or the other. The only thing we do have is that the evidence supports the possibility or maybe even probability that getting the treatment helped her recover.

All we have is data and probabilities. It's like gambling. If you're smart, you go with the odds. It's no guarantee. Some things are more certain than others, though.

 

[Soldiers]

Correlation does not equal causation.

My stepdad was 75, a retired pharmacist, and believed at least some of the misinformation and disinformation about the injections. He also was against the other mandates. So, he and his wife went down to Texas (was supposed to be for 6 months) and loved their freedom, posting all about it on Facebook. Within two months both got COVID and he died; she was saved only because she was able to get the monoclonal antibody treatment. To this day, she denies he died from COVID (cognitive dissonance) and thinks that she recovered just fine, completely ignoring that she, too, would have died without treatment.

I get it, only pro-vaxxers stories are legitamate. Only their experience counts because otherwise they wouldn't be able to stand against the other side. As I said, I had covid along with 4 other family members in the same household. 2 weeks of ginger and tumeric shots, prayer and water got us from being bed-ridden to fully able. None of us needed the jab. A doctor in Florida my grandmother knew, took the vaccine, he was in his late 60's or early 70's and was fully healthy. Not too long after taking the jab he died.

Btw I'm still waiting for you to address the covid websites made in 1997, 2010, and 2013, and the other ones as well. Will you address it or continue ignore it so you still have the illusion of infallibility? Will you admit to maybe me and the vaccine aren't 100% foolproof or only address the comments you feel you can rebuttle?

 

[Free]

You're assuming that the monoclonal antibodies saved her life or not getting them resulted in your father's death. You may be right and you may be wrong but there's no way to prove one way or the other. The only thing we do have is that the evidence supports the possibility or maybe even probability that getting the treatment helped her recover.

My point wasn't that not getting the treatment resulted in my stepdad's death (he was too sick to get the treatment by the time they got to hospital), but rather that getting vaccinated possibly and quite likely could have prevented his death, as he was relatively healthy for his age. As for her, she is higher risk, and most likely would have died without the treatment, but, again, it possibly and likely could have been avoided altogether if she was vaccinated.

The stats were in their favour and they chose to ignore them.

 

[Free]

I get it, only pro-vaxxers stories are legitamate. Only their experience counts because otherwise they wouldn't be able to stand against the other side. As I said, I had covid along with 4 other family members in the same household. 2 weeks of ginger and tumeric shots, prayer and water got us from being bed-ridden to fully able. None of us needed the jab. A doctor in Florida my grandmother knew, took the vaccine, he was in his late 60's or early 70's and was fully healthy. Not too long after taking the jab he died.

Correlation doesn't equal causation. "Fully healthy" is a relative term, as no one is "fully" healthy.

Btw I'm still waiting for you to address the covid websites made in 1997, 2010, and 2013, and the other ones as well.

Did you provide links to these sites?

Will you address it or continue ignore it so you still have the illusion of infallibility? Will you admit to maybe me and the vaccine aren't 100% foolproof or only address the comments you feel you can rebuttle?

I started with a response but I just got tired of debating someone who thinks he knows more than those who have relevant education and experience. There are better uses of my time on these forums.

 

[Soldiers]

No reasonable person assumes that car crashes or lightning strikes are caused by the vaccine, even if some anti-vaxxers have tried to sell that story.

If you really wanted to know I got it from a whisteblower scientists in the documentary plandemic. It didn't say that lightning strikes or car crashes are caused by the vaccine, it said that the deaths from covid that were calculated were inclusive of people who indeed had covid, but died from a car accident. Or if they had something like congestive heart failure, diabetes, or other underlying conditions, but still had covid, the death wasn't attributed to a car accident or underlying disease, but covid. Nothing to do with vaccine.

That would be helpful for all of us.

I'm just pointing out your error. Such reports are not taken as valid COVID-19 deaths unless it can be established that the virus caused the death.

Look at comment one.

Hmm... I'm looking at all the ones that didn't. Maybe we should just judge each one by the evidence for and against that particular one. If Trump really did conspire with others to pay off a playboy bunny and a porn star to hide his sexual relations with them, that does not mean that the CDC is hiding a finding that COVID-19 causes motorcycle accidents.

I don't see any of the conspiracies I listed had anything to do with Trump, I don't understand why it's so hard to address the theories directly but continuing to dance around it.

Actually, I kinda suspected that you wouldn't know that there are other coronaviruses. Your haughty spirit rejects humility, and just wants to be right, even though you see that you don't understand the issue.

You probably should know that COVID-19 is only one of several known COVID viruses. Is that the issue?

I was waiting for this to come up. All it takes is a 30 second search to see of course, there are many coronavirus, however COVID is specifically represented in short for COVID-19 both meaning "The Coronavirus of 2019"
"Is Covid the same as coronavirus?
COVID-19 is a disease caused by SARS-CoV-2 that can trigger what doctors call a respiratory tract infection. In early 2020, the World Health Organization identified SARS-CoV-2 as a new type of coronavirus." (from

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

As I said, if someone who has a severe reaction to the vaccine gets in an auto accident and dies, the death might be reported as being a reaction to the vaccination, depending on the specific cause of death. That's a different issue.

However, the source I got it from was not VAERS and was not the vaccine.

It comes down to evidence. Reality is funny that way. I'd be happy to go over anything you think I missed in your arguments. Feel free.

Of course, although like with proving God to athiests, or proving anything to anyone, if someone is dead set on something, no amount of evidence is acceptable to them (and I know what you're thinking, this applies to me too, of course it does!)
I said
"-Many suspected the existence of UFO's, which the government denied for years and discredited anyone who said they existed, finally they admit to it.
-People thought the government was stealing dead bodies to do radioactive testing, and then it was found that they were using dead body parts from babies and children from over 1500 grieving families without their consent.
-Another one, some suspected the CIA was testing LSD and other hallucinogenic drugs on Americans in a top-secret experiment on behavior modification. And they were true, the program was known as MK-ULTRA, and it was real. The CIA started by using volunteers; the novelist Ken Kesey was one notable subject. But the program heads soon began dosing people without their knowledge; MK-ULTRA left many victims permanently mentally disabled.
-Many also believe the government is using its vast resources to track citizens, and it's true, in 2016, government agencies sent 49,868 requests for user data to Facebook, 27,850 to Google, and 9,076 to Apple, according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (the EFF), a major nonprofit organization that defends civil liberties in the digital world and advises the public on matters of internet privacy.
-

I was certified as a trainer in the Xerox sales training course.

Then you would understand the pro-vax movement, what the CDC, FDA, WHO are saying about covid is marketting 101. And also how they are lacking in advertisement skills because you give all the info about your products and let the consumers decide, not tell all the good stuff and let them find out otherwise later.
One more, it was suspected that the Gulf of Tonkin incident on August 2, 1964, was faked to provoke American support for the Vietnam War. And in fact declassified intelligence documents have since revealed that the Maddox had provided support for South Vietnamese attacks on a nearby island and that the North Vietnamese were responding in kind, according to the U.S. Naval Institute. The event “opened the floodgates for direct American military involvement in Vietnam.”

 

[Soldiers]

Correlation doesn't equal causation. "Fully healthy" is a relative term, as no one is "fully" healthy.

Ok Free, you know what I meant.

Did you provide links to these sites?

Yes, you can look at the thread and find it very easily.

I started with a response but I just got tired of debating a 16 year-old who thinks he knows more than those who have relevant education and experience. There are better uses of my time on these forums.

Or did the spirit of pride blocked you from seeing your own fallacy and using your age and "education" as a wall to hide behind not using common sense. I'm not impressed by edumacation or experience as I've debated those who boast about 20,30, 40, 50+ years of experience and some still lacked the common sense that a 12 year old has and I'm not even the one who points it out 80% of the time.

And you know very well as I said before Free, the verse 1 Timothy 4:2 "Don’t let anyone think less of you because you are young. Be an example to all believers in what you say, in the way you live, in your love, your faith, and your purity." And you know well that God uses those the world deems as fools to confound the wise, and the weak to overpower the powerful so that no one can boast.

Being 16 is my strength, so I won't lean into my own understanding I boast in my fallibility.

You can flaunt your age and experience around and think it'll silence people but it won't work on me, as you know very well that there are old kᵊsîl, out there in the world who think their irrefutable. If I'm so in error, why have you and Barbarian straw-manned through this entire thread and still have yet to answer the evidence you sought for me to provide.

So are you going to go for low blows, or address my arguments/questions effectively? Or ignore them so you remain right in your eyes? I never diminished your education, just questioned it, then the pride lashes out. They should be quite easy to debunk since I don't know what I'm talking about. And while your at it, what about:

CDC admitting to exaggerating the numbers:

CDC coding error led to overcount of 72,000 Covid deaths

Calls for agency to communicate clearly and transparently after error, corrected last week, inadvertently added deaths to tracker

www.theguardian.com

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.

www.cdc.gov

Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines receiving warning labels about heart inflammation

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/fda-says-label-warning-coming-for-heart-inflammation-pfizer-bnt-moderna-covid-19-vaccines

The whole "coronavirus came from bats" story that isn't true

Once and for all: No, we didn’t get the coronavirus from bats | Opinion | Opinion

***

www.haaretz.com

All I'm asking is, if the sources pushing for the vaccine have been proven to be untrustworthy, even some of them admitting to these errors, what makes them trustworthy? That's all I've been asking. I'm not the person to believe whatever someone who is older or is "certified" (by the world) to do something that's a matter of life and death, I'mma think for myself, and the fact that that's a threat is only proving my point.

 

[WIP]

My point wasn't that not getting the treatment resulted in my stepdad's death (he was too sick to get the treatment by the time they got to hospital), but rather that getting vaccinated possibly and quite likely could have prevented his death, as he was relatively healthy for his age. As for her, she is higher risk, and most likely would have died without the treatment, but, again, it possibly and likely could have been avoided altogether if she was vaccinated.

The stats were in their favour and they chose to ignore them.

That wasn't quite what you wrote though so I wanted to be sure to clarify.

Your stepfather was a pharmacist, and you say he believed the "misinformation" about the vaccines and other mandates. Being a pharmacist, wouldn't he be more qualified than you or me to determine whether or not the information was accurate or bogus?

You also said, "She was saved only because she was able to get the monoclonal antibody treatment." You also said, "She, too, would have died without treatment." You didn't say she likely or possibly could have died without them. You claimed that she most certainly would have died without them. So, in this case you are spreading misinformation, right?

Did you ever ask her why she believes his death was not due to COVID? Maybe she knows something you don't.

There was other misinformation as well and often it came directly from our CDC. Searching through their news release records one can find some significant changes in recommendations as things progressed. They were basically shooting from the hip, which I can understand to some degree, but they are professionals, and I can't help but wonder if they should have exercised a little more due diligence. I believe it is for this reason that even those in the medical fields were not totally decided on what was truth. I have family members in the medical field as well and there was confusion for sure.

When the vaccines were first introduced, they were touted as the shield of health and that they would protect us from getting infected. Now anyone with half a brain knows that vaccines can never totally prevent infection but only reduces the risk of infection or severity of infection. But, that isn't what was being sold.

Then in August of 2020 I contracted COVID, coincidentally just days before I got my first Phizer vaccine injection. During that first week after the vaccine, I unknowingly transmitted the virus to my neighbor, his son, another church member, my wife, and my brother-in-law. With the exception of my brother-in-law, very single one of them had been previously vaccinated and boosted at least once and every one of them became ill with symptoms of COVID. My neighbor's wife who was also vaccinated and boosted once became ill with symptoms too. Most likely she got it from my neighbor and their son.

Now, because my neighbor and his family were all vaccinated, they didn't concern themselves with being around other people even if they had symptoms. The only reason they found out they were infected was because their son, who was schedule to fly to Spain the following weekend, got tested as required by the FAA. They figured because they were vaccinated, they were protected. What they didn't know or understand was they could still transmit the virus to others even though they may not feel strong symptoms.

Apparently, what was being sold wasn't quite accurate. The truth was that it was very possible to still get infected even though one was vaccinated, and it was very possible to share the virus even though one was vaccinated.

Now, to the vaccine's credit, with the exception of my brother-in-law, all of those infected only experienced minor symptoms. My brother-in-law who was not vaccinated ended up in the hospital. This was a testament to the efficacy of the vaccines.

 

[Free]

That wasn't quite what you wrote though so I wanted to be sure to clarify.

Your stepfather was a pharmacist, and you say he believed the "misinformation" about the vaccines and other mandates. Being a pharmacist, wouldn't he be more qualified than you or me to determine whether or not the information was accurate or bogus?

Not necessarily. When people have made up their minds about something, when they believe misinformation and disinformation, that's often pretty much it and no evidence will convince otherwise. For instance, the last time I saw him, he started going into how the vaccines weren't vaccines at all. Even his wife, who has her masters in nursing, shared a meme on Facebook that the vaccines were 99% graphene, which is utterly absurd. I believe they were getting their "information" from one of her kids who lives in Texas. It seemed to be a bastion of misinformation.

Just as experts succumb to the base rate fallacy, some throw critical thinking out the window when they shouldn't. And there are reasons for that, not the least of which are certain eschatological views that lead to mistrust of all things government. They had finished reading Jonathan Cahn's Harbinger not too long before the pandemic hit, so it really isn't a surprise.

You also said, "She was saved only because she was able to get the monoclonal antibody treatment." You also said, "She, too, would have died without treatment." You didn't say she likely or possibly could have died without them. You claimed that she most certainly would have died without them. So, in this case you are spreading misinformation, right?

No. I truly do believe she would have died without it, as she is not as healthy as he was. I simply corrected my overstatement by saying she most likely would have died. But that was all entirely an aside and not my main point.

Did you ever ask her why she believes his death was not due to COVID? Maybe she knows something you don't.

Oh, she made sure to let us know. He had "a heart condition" that caused an irregular and rapid heart rate. Yet, he went in to the hospital with COVID and didn't come out alive. The issue is this: a little research goes a long way. One of the things COVID did to some people who died, was cause irregular and rapid heart rates. I saw this at work several times. People go in to hospital with COVID, get treatment, and then appear to be on the mend. Then suddenly there's a severe and rapid downturn and they die within 2-3 days or so. It was textbook based on the research I had come across and also happened exactly that way to the father of a woman in our church.

Her cognitive dissonance simply cannot allow her to believe it was due to COVID. If it was, then she is also at fault for spreading misinformation and not doing what they should have to maximize their chances of survival.

There was other misinformation as well and often it came directly from our CDC. Searching through their news release records one can find some significant changes in recommendations as things progressed. They were basically shooting from the hip, which I can understand to some degree, but they are professionals, and I can't help but wonder if they should have exercised a little more due diligence. I believe it is for this reason that even those in the medical fields were not totally decided on what was truth. I have family members in the medical field as well and there was confusion for sure.

For sure, I saw it at work too, but it was a very dynamic situation with many moving parts and they could only get the data so fast. Part of it, I think, is that COVID affected people so differently, with so many different systems in the body potentially involved. They're still trying to figure out most of it, especially long COVID.

When the vaccines were first introduced, they were touted as the shield of health and that they would protect us from getting infected. Now anyone with half a brain knows that vaccines can never totally prevent infection but only reduces the risk of infection or severity of infection. But, that isn't what was being sold.
Then in August of 2020 I contracted COVID, coincidentally just days before I got my first Phizer vaccine injection. During that first week after the vaccine, I unknowingly transmitted the virus to my neighbor, his son, another church member, my wife, and my brother-in-law. With the exception of my brother-in-law, very single one of them had been previously vaccinated and boosted at least once and every one of them became ill with symptoms of COVID. My neighbor's wife who was also vaccinated and boosted once became ill with symptoms too. Most likely she got it from my neighbor and their son.

Now, because my neighbor and his family were all vaccinated, they didn't concern themselves with being around other people even if they had symptoms. The only reason they found out they were infected was because their son, who was schedule to fly to Spain the following weekend, got tested as required by the FAA. They figured because they were vaccinated, they were protected. What they didn't know or understand was they could still transmit the virus to others even though they may not feel strong symptoms.

Apparently, what was being sold wasn't quite accurate. The truth was that it was very possible to still get infected even though one was vaccinated, and it was very possible to share the virus even though one was vaccinated.

Now, to the vaccine's credit, with the exception of my brother-in-law, all of those infected only experienced minor symptoms. My brother-in-law who was not vaccinated ended up in the hospital. This was a testament to the efficacy of the vaccines.

It is too bad the vaccines didn't work quite as first advertised, but personally I don't think it was purposeful. My team lead at my previous job had been double or triple vaxxed (I can't remember which it was at that time) and got slammed by COVID. He is a fairly young, healthy guy, but he was sure he would have been in hospital if it wasn't for being vaccinated.

 

[Barbarian]

I get it, only pro-vaxxers stories are legitamate.

You seem to have a habit of making up stories and suggesting that other people made them up.

Btw I'm still waiting for you to address the covid websites made in 1997, 2010, and 2013, and the other ones as well.

I just showed you that there are other coronaviruses than COVID-19. Did you forget?

If you really wanted to know I got it from a whisteblower scientists in the documentary plandemic. It didn't say that lightning strikes or car crashes are caused by the vaccine, it said that the deaths from covid that were calculated were inclusive of people who indeed had covid, but died from a car accident.

Maybe it would be a good idea for you to show us that. Checkable link. Just because (as you know) all kind of stories turn up, without any evidence backing them.

I was waiting for this to come up. All it takes is a 30 second search to see of course, there are many coronavirus, however COVID is specifically represented in short for COVID-19 both meaning "The Coronavirus of 2019"
"Is Covid the same as coronavirus?

I see your confusion... COronaVIrusDisease-19 A coronavirus disease first discovered in 2019. There are earlier indications of a coronavirus disease incurred by miners in a bat-infested cave in Wuhan in 2012, but it has yet to be definitively identified as the COVID-19 virus. Indeed, there is some evidence that it was a virus that escaped a lab.

However, the source I got it from was not VAERS and was not the vaccine.

Unfortunately, you seem rather reluctant to provide a checkable source for your claim. So we still don't have any reason to suppose it's anything but rumors from VAERS.

Of course, although like with proving God to athiests, or proving anything to anyone, if someone is dead set on something, no amount of evidence is acceptable to them

At least, if you provided some evidence, you could say that you did. That would boost your credibility here considerably. Show us a checkable link for your claim.

And also how they are lacking in advertisement skills because you give all the info about your products and let the consumers decide, not tell all the good stuff and let them find out otherwise later.

Well, that's a testable belief...
At least 269,835,963 people or 81% of the population have received at least one dose.
Overall, 230,283,056 people or 69% of the population are considered fully vaccinated.

US Coronavirus vaccine tracker

Each state has a different plan — and different challenges — in distributing vaccines. Learn more about who is getting vaccinated by parsing the data by age, sex and race.

usafacts.org

Looks like pretty good marketing to me.
(random other conspiracy theories deleted)

 

[Soldiers]

You seem to have a habit of making up stories and suggesting that other people made them up.

It was quite expected that my experiences with covid, and others experiences with covid that I witnessed firsthand will be regarded as lies. Of course it completely makes sense I would make up stuff out of thin air. (Btw you kinda have no proof to say my experiences were made up unless you were there)

I just showed you that there are other coronaviruses than COVID-19. Did you forget?

I commented how I already know about that, did you read it?

Maybe it would be a good idea for you to show us that. Checkable link. Just because (as you know) all kind of stories turn up, without any evidence backing them.

The documentary is called Plandemic as I mentioned, and please if you decide to watch it, use your own critical thinking to decipher because like you said, people claim anything without evidence backing it up.

I see your confusion... COronaVIrusDisease-19 A coronavirus disease first discovered in 2019. There are earlier indications of a coronavirus disease incurred by miners in a bat-infested cave in Wuhan in 2012, but it has yet to be definitively identified as the COVID-19 virus. Indeed, there is some evidence that it was a virus that escaped a lab.

You realized that I did not say "a coronavirus disease", as I know very well that coronavirus diseases existed prior to the 21st century. COVID-19 is a coronavirus but coronavirus isn't a type of COVID-19, it's one of many.
And I didn't make it up, actually read the source I gave:

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Unfortunately, you seem rather reluctant to provide a checkable source for your claim. So we still don't have any reason to suppose it's anything but rumors from VAERS.

I have several times, look at this comment and several other ones.

At least, if you provided some evidence, you could say that you did. That would boost your credibility here considerably. Show us a checkable link for your claim.

I have so many times, it's like why do you guys ignore half of your opponents discourse, and accuse them of not knowing what they are talking about, when if you read their discourse you couldn't say that. Not one time that I've but evidence, websites, or links, you've every addressed it. The straw mans are piling up so much you could make a platoon of scarecrows over 6 acres of land. So the question isn't when will I provide evidence, the question is when will you acknowledge it? Is the thought that someone like me wroth thee so much you act as so?

Seems like good marketing to me (random other conspiracy theories deleted)

And it was such good marketting that it proves my point, when you believe something is infallible won't you take advantage of it, why do you think satan shows only the percieved "good" and never the consequences, or the long term effects of sin? Only the pleasure of it?

Once again, I gave evidence and you rejected it and still asks for the same evidence. It's like I go to the check-out line, and the cashier asks for me to pay after ringing my items, then I give him cash, he ignores it and still asks me to pay, I'm saying the money is right there, but he still says, "pay up buddy, why aren't you paying, you must not have the money huh?"

I gave you links to the websites of covid from 1997-Febraury of 2020
I gave you links to prove the CDC's miscount, even on their own website
I gave you claims to back up when I supported by thesis of "there have been many conspiracy theories that were true all along" which conjunctively assisted my claim of "not everything labelled as a conspiracy theory is false" when you called information against the vaccine a conspiracy theory. In order to back up both claims I brought up factual "conspiracies" you could research on your own, you only addressed Micheal Jackson and stopped there.
I gave links to sources saying how the vaccine was been given a warning label for Pfizer and Moderna to increase cardiovascular irregularities
I gave the source to my data that wasn't from VAERS
I gave my own personal experience in 2 different countries, Brazil and Dominican Republic, along with my covid experience along with 4 others who were infected at the same time
I gave my experience of what was the declining health of my great grandmother as a result of vaccination
I gave information towards a doctor my grandmother knew in Florida who died as a result of the vaccine although he was in no medical conditions
I'll even give a bonus of a Japanese 42-year old woman who died in connection to the vaccine: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/03/10/national/japan-first-covid19-vaccine-death/
I asked simple questions about my concern, what were they met with? Nothing of any fruit
This is why titles like, "educated, experience, Ph.D., experts, decades of experience" don't impress me. Because just like me, and all humans, they are susceptible to the same folly, arrogance, and pride any person on the street is. This is no different. The only difference is that the deception of an educated person runs deeper because he thinks he knows everything because his edumacation and experience, and leans unto his own understanding even more than one who is more humble about it. You know who the AntiChrist will have on his side the quickest? The experts, the "experienced" and those who boast in their own strength rather than God's wisdom. It's classic strategy 101, have the top of the pyramid conquered and trickle down onto the rest.

 

[Barbarian]

It was quite expected that my experiences with covid, and others experiences with covid that I witnessed firsthand will be regarded as lies.

You could probably dispel that impression by providing the information you said you have.

The documentary is called Plandemic as I mentioned, and please if you decide to watch it

No link? Let me guess; it's a video on You Tube. Instead of having us watch the thing, why not just link us to the evidence cited in the video? Or is the video all the evidence you have?

I have several times, look at this comment and several other ones.

So we'll assume that someone's video is all you have. If I'm wrong, provide the evidence.

I have so many times, it's like why do you guys ignore half of your opponents discourse, and accuse them of not knowing what they are talking about

You've repeatedly shown us that you don't. I realize that you're marketing guy and don't have a background in this kind of thing, but any reasonably intelligent person could do a little research and do better than you have.

So the question isn't when will I provide evidence, the question is when will you acknowledge it?

So far, you've told us there's a video, but won't even link it. Let's see if you can cite the evidence in the video so we can check it.

This is why titles like, "educated, experience, Ph.D., experts, decades of experience" don't impress me.

Because you put your faith in videos instead of checkable data. We all get it.

You know who the AntiChrist will have on his side the quickest?

The guys who just believe whatever is on You Tube.

First you say that:

And also how they are lacking in advertisement skills because you give all the info about your products and let the consumers decide, not tell all the good stuff and let them find out otherwise later.

And when I point out that they've been very good at informing people to the point that the great majority if Americans decided to become vaccinated, you pivot to:

And it was such good marketting that it proves my point

I get how badly you want to believe those things you were indoctrinated on. But at some point you have to make an accommodation to reality.

 

[Barbarian]

Since you like vidoes...
A Doctor Fact-Checks Plandemic Videos

 

[Soldiers]

You could probably dispel that impression by providing the information you said you have.

No link? Let me guess; it's a video on You Tube. Instead of having us watch the thing, why not just link us to the evidence cited in the video? Or is the video all the evidence you have?

So we'll assume that someone's video is all you have. If I'm wrong, provide the evidence.

You've repeatedly shown us that you don't. I realize that you're marketing guy and don't have a background in this kind of thing, but any reasonably intelligent person could do a little research and do better than you have.

So far, you've told us there's a video, but won't even link it. Let's see if you can cite the evidence in the video so we can check it.

Because you put your faith in videos instead of checkable data. We all get it.

The guys who just believe whatever is on You Tube.

First you say that:


And when I point out that they've been very good at informing people to the point that the great majority if Americans decided to become vaccinated, you pivot to:


I get how badly you want to believe those things you were indoctrinated on. But at some point you have to make an accommodation to reality.

So, I'll repeat myself for one last time:
Plandemic documentary
https://plandemicseries.com/ (via duckduckgo)
Covid meaning:

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

CDC admits to exaggerating the numbers:

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.

www.cdc.gov

CDC coding error led to overcount of 72,000 Covid deaths

Calls for agency to communicate clearly and transparently after error, corrected last week, inadvertently added deaths to tracker

www.theguardian.com

Pfizer & Moderna's new health label on vax

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/fda-says-label-warning-coming-for-heart-inflammation-pfizer-bnt-moderna-covid-19-vaccines

Pfizer admitting they mutated coronavirus

Pfizer director taped claiming company attempted mutating coronavirus

The reason for wanting to mutate the virus was so that the company could stay ahead of the game and continue to develop effective COVID vaccines.

tvpworld.com

Pfizer admitting to not knowing if vaccine stopped transmission of covid

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-did-not-know-whether-covid-vaccine-stopped-transmission-before-rollout-executive-admits/news-story/f307f28f794e173ac017a62784fec414

Covid.com (Made in 1997)

@https://www.whois.com/whois/covid.com​

Covid.org (Made in 2010)

Whois covid.org

Whois Lookup for covid.org

www.whois.com

Novel coronavirus (Made in 2013)

https://www.godaddy.com/whois/results.aspx?domainName=novelcoronavirus.com

The covid vaccine was made in December 2020 according to mayoclinic.org, but here shows months earlier.
Coronavirus vaccine (.com)
https://www.whois.com/whois/coronavirusvaccine.com (1/18/2020)
Covid vaccine (.com)
https://www.whois.com/whois/covidvaccine.com (2/11/2020)
Covid vaccine (.org)
https://www.whois.com/whois/covidvaccine.org (2/11/2020)
Covid19 vaccine (.com)
https://www.whois.com/whois/covid19vaccine.com (2/11/2020)
Undeniable death connected to vaccine

Japan reports first death directly linked to COVID-19 vaccine

The woman received a Pfizer shot targeting the omicron variant on Nov. 5 at a mass vaccination center.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Conspiracy theories that came true (proving not everything that is called a conspiracy is a lie)

12 Conspiracy Theories That Actually Turned Out to Be True

They say the truth is stranger than fiction. That's no lie: All of these so-called "crazy conspiracy theories" turned out to be legit.

www.rd.com

CDC fallacies

Words and actions that erode trust in the CDC hurt us all

Risking the credibility of institutions such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is beyond unacceptable—it is unconscionable.

www.ama-assn.org

The C.D.C. Isn’t Publishing Large Portions of the Covid Data It Collects (Published 2022)

The agency has withheld critical data on boosters, hospitalizations and, until recently, wastewater analyses.

www.nytimes.com

The U.S. Government’s Noble Lies About COVID-19

When Fauci said in March 2020 that Americans didn’t need to wear masks, it was a noble lie—and a destructive one.

slate.com

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/929078678/cdc-report-officials-knew-coronavirus-test-was-flawed-but-released-it-anyway

The CDC is beholden to corporations and lost our trust. We need to start our own | The People's CDC

We’re epidemiologists, nurses and physicians, artists and biologists. We have come together with a common anger at the US government’s handling of Covid

www.theguardian.com

FDA fallacies

Risky Drugs: Why The FDA Cannot Be Trusted

by Donald W. Light A forthcoming article for the special issue of the Journal of Law, Medicine and Ethics (JLME), edited by Marc Rodwin and supported by the Edmond J. Safra Center for Ethics, presents evidence that about 90 percent of all new drugs approved by the FDA over the past 30 years are...

ethics.harvard.edu

How the FDA Manipulates the Media

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has been arm-twisting journalists into relinquishing their reportorial independence, our investigation reveals. Other institutions are following suit

www.scientificamerican.com

How the FDA’s food division fails to regulate health and safety hazards

A POLITICO investigation based on more than 50 interviews finds the FDA is failing to meet American consumers expectations on food safety and nutrition.

politico.com

WHO failures & lies

Parliamentary question | World Health Organization failures | E-002279/2020 | European Parliament

Question for written answer E-002279/2020 to the Commission Rule 138 Julie Lechanteux (ID)

www.europarl.europa.eu

Covid: Serious failures in WHO and global response, report finds

An independent review calls the international response to the pandemic a "toxic cocktail".

www.bbc.com

Covid Response Was a Global Series of Failures, W.H.O.-Established Panel Says (Published 2021)

An interim report is both a bleak recounting of deadly missteps and an early blueprint for repairs: “We have failed in our collective capacity.”

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | World Health Coronavirus Disinformation

WHO’s bows to Beijing have harmed the global response to the pandemic.

www.wsj.com

Why President Trump is entirely right to give up on WHO

President Trump is taking heavy criticism for his announcement last week that the United States is “terminating its relationship with the World Health Organization.” But evidence is mounting that t…

nypost.com

Now you have the choice to overlook it and pretend as if I said nothing as you've been doing, or you can take me head on and stop avoiding parts of my comments you apparently have hesitation to addressing.

And there's more where that came from

 

[Barbarian]

So, I'll repeat myself for one last time:
Plandemic documentary
https://plandemicseries.com/ (via duckduckgo)

Yes, a video, but no evidence. We already saw that.

CDC admits to exaggerating the numbers:

That's not what it says. Did you even read it? It says that CDC worked out a more accurate way of predicting deaths and estimating excess deaths, not reporting deaths. And it doesn't say anything about exaggerating numbers. Someone told you a story about this, and you just repeated it without bothering to check it.

And there's more where that came from

Don't doubt it. First one I check turns out to be not what you told us.

On March 15, 2023, the methodology for estimating excess deaths was updated to account for the fact that approximately 160 weeks of data during the pandemic were being excluded in the algorithm (so that expected values were not inflated due to substantially elevated mortality during the pandemic), resulting in unstable estimates of expected weekly numbers of deaths in some cases. To account for this limitation and provide more stable estimated expected numbers for recent time periods, the Farrington surveillance algorithms (1) were first applied to data through 2020 and used to predict the expected weekly number of deaths through 2020. To estimate the expected number of deaths for 2021, weekly counts of death above the 95% prediction interval in 2020 were replaced with imputed values, assuming that deaths (on average) in 2020 reflected the expected numbers and variability predicted by the Farrington algorithm. These imputed values were randomly drawn from a normal distribution with a mean equal to the expected number of deaths, and a standard deviation based on the distance between the expected value and the one-sided 95% prediction interval (divided by 1.65). The Farrington algorithm was then applied to predict the expected number of deaths in 2021, based on the imputed values from 2020 and observed data from 2019 and earlier. The same imputation process was carried out for weeks during 2021 that fell above the 95% prediction interval and subsequently predicting the expected number of deaths in 2022 based on imputed values from 2020 through 2021. The same process was repeated for 2023, predicting the expected number of deaths based on imputed data for 2020 through 2022. This process predicts the expected number of deaths for each subsequent year, assuming that trends in deaths would have continued had the pandemic not occurred, rather than excluding the entire pandemic period (160 weeks or more) from the analysis. As a result, trends in the expected number of deaths were smoother and more stable, with fewer aberrations in recent years. However, regardless of the methodology used, the estimated expected numbers of deaths and corresponding estimates of excess deaths are subject to a greater degree of uncertainty as the pandemic has gone on for more than three years as it is increasingly difficult to predict what trends in mortality would have looked like had the pandemic not occurred.

All of this is statistically valid. The point is that it becomes harder to say what usual deaths would normally be, the longer the pandemic goes on. And that's expressed as a larger range for whatever confidence interval you want.

 

[Barbarian]

Anaphylaxis is always a possibility with any vaccine. This is why you are asked to wait at least 15 minutes before leaving. It's puzzling why they didn't provide epinephrine; typically, it's given I.M. not intravenously. In 8 years in my clinic, I saw one case, and he responded quickly to half a cc of epinephrine sufficiently to keep him going until the ER crew could get him. He was fine the next day, although he needed two more hits of epinephrine that night in ICU. At one point, his BP was 50/0 and he told me that the room was getting dark. My tech was a first-term airman, and she was crying, although nothing she did had anything to do with the reaction. Out of hundreds of thousands of injections given in that clinic in my time, there was one case of anaphylaxis. Never want to see another one.

Wasn't a vaccine, BTW. It was an allergy shot, and they are riskier than immunizations, since you are giving them tiny doses of the stuff that makes them react.

During December 14–23, 2020, monitoring by the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System detected 21 cases of anaphylaxis after administration of a reported 1,893,360 first doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (11.1 cases per million doses); 71% of these occurred within 15 minutes of vaccination.

Allergic Reactions Including Anaphylaxis...

As of January 3, 2021, a total of 20,346,372 cases of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) and 349,246 associated deaths have been reported in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

Unlike your motorcycle accident stuff, I have pretty good confidence that these 21 cases are good data. Anaphylaxis happening within 15 min of an injection pretty much indicates that a severe allergic reaction to the shot had occurred.
And an anaphylaxis rate of 0.00111% sounds about right.

 

[Barbarian]

Covid meaning:

From this link...
"In early 2020, the World Health Organization identified SARS-CoV-2 as a new type of coronavirus...
Getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is a key part of prevention."
Do you even read them?

 

[Barbarian]

And the reality is that COVID-19 deaths were underreported...

​

Uncovering COVID-19’s Hidden Deaths in the United States ​

As the nation’s pandemic death toll approaches one million, a BU public health researcher joins with reporters to investigate why some counties are underreporting deaths​

The researchers found substantial variation in the percentage of excess deaths assigned to COVID across the country, with counties in the South and West especially likely to underreport pandemic deaths. COVID deaths were also more likely to be missed in counties with fewer primary care physicians, less access to health insurance, and more people dying at home; communities of color were disproportionately impacted. Some undercounts, says Stokes, may even be politically motivated.

“Accurate and timely mortality surveillance is critical to pandemic preparedness and response efforts,” he says. “Without accurate mortality data, it becomes very challenging to devise effective policy responses or to develop fair and equitable responses targeting the most heavily affected communities.”

Uncovering COVID-19’s Hidden Deaths in the US

As the nation’s pandemic death toll approaches one million, a public health researcher joins with reporters to investigate why some counties are underreporting deaths

www.bu.edu

"The US population remains a long way from herd immunity even with millions of new infections each week," the researchers wrote. "The number of estimated COVID-19 deaths is also remarkably more than the reported deaths in the US through November 15, 2020, supporting the conclusion that approximately 35% of COVID-19 deaths are not reported."

Study: US COVID cases, deaths far higher than reported

www.cidrap.umn.edu

One identified cause of underreporting of deaths:

Coroners in four South Mississippi counties say they have tried but failed to acquire COVID-19 test kits from the state. One of those coroners believes he might have handled four coronavirus cases that have not been counted for as deaths caused by the virus.​

Mississippi Coroners Can’t Get Coronavirus Test Kits for the Dead

Coroners in four South Mississippi counties say they have tried but failed to acquire COVID-19 test kits from the state. One of those coroners believes he might have handled four coronavirus cases that have not been counted for as deaths caused by the virus.

www.govtech.com

This is true in many states.

Colorado:
One thing coroners agree on is that an early lack of coronavirus testing means the state likely missed a sizable number of COVID-19 deaths.

Monica Broncucia-Jordan, coroner for Adams and Broomfield counties, said her office has intercepted a couple of death cases from nursing homes that weren’t tested for coronavirus that should have been.

“If we had not stepped in and done that testing, that death certificate would have been filled out by that health care provider as whatever natural disease the person had,” Broncucia-Jordan said. “So those were some of the underreporting that can go on.”

Colorado likely won’t have an accurate coronavirus death count for months, or even years

Colorado likely won’t have an accurate coronavirus death count for months, or even years. Here’s what we know about “excess deaths” in March and April.

coloradosun.com