Two or Three and the Need

[Randy]

There is no correct answer...all are welcome.

Are we made up of two parts, or three parts;
Do we have a
BODY
SOUL ---- and what about the spirit? Would it be part of the soul?
This is a Dichotomy

OR
Do we have a
BODY
SOUL
SPIRIT
This is a Trichotomy

How does the concept you believe function....
and does the Spirit have needs...
Tas, for example, the body has needs: Like food.

Not that I am 100% sure in this. (soul vs spirit)
I think the word soul simply refers to the spiritual part of us in some contexts

I have a body
I am Spirit
My uniqueness from others is my mind. (mind of the spirit)

Gods sword can separate our thoughts and attitudes even from our spirit.

My two cents.

R.

 

[daninthelionsden]

My simplistic view: Spirit yearns for God
Body yearns for the grave
Soul(mind) is the battleground between the two.

 

[born twice one]

When God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree he said;
"for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Gen 217
The next day they were physically still there, body. They were thinking, making choices, and afraid. Mind, Will, Emotions, the soul. So what died? spirit. There connection with God was gone. They is why when we are born again God puts his Spirit within us, to make us whole again and to have fellowship with us.
Each of these parts have a salvation. Salvation of the spirit, justification. The freedom from the penalty of sin. Salvation of the soul, sanctification. The freedom from the power of sin. Salvation of the body, glorification. The freedom from the presence of sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not that I am 100% sure in this. (soul vs spirit)
I think the word soul simply refers to the spiritual part of us in some contexts

If the soul responds to the spiritual part of us,,,then it must certainly be two different parts of us.
I think you and I can agree that the spiritual part of us is the part that responds to God. God's spirit is joined to our spirit and thus we are born again. Not everyone uses their spiritual part or have one for that matter.

Then you mention your uniqueness. Agreed...what makes you unique is your mind, your will, your emotions...this would be your soul. It makes you different from everyone else in the way you think and in your reactions and in how you see the world and understand what is around you and have emotions from this. Some are happy all the time, some sad. This has to do with how they have experienced this world --- life.

I have a body
I am Spirit
My uniqueness from others is my mind. (mind of the spirit)

Gods sword can separate our thoughts and attitudes even from our spirit.

My two cents.

R.

So you have a body...all the physical attributes.
You are spirit in the sense that you have a spirit part that is connected to God.
And you have a soul which is what makes you unique...your mind, will and emotions.

So the only part that is a bit unclear from your post is that your uniqueness comes from your mind, which is not wrong, but your mind is part of your soul...the untangible part of your body.

 

[Randy]

If the soul responds to the spiritual part of us,,,then it must certainly be two different parts of us.
I think you and I can agree that the spiritual part of us is the part that responds to God. God's spirit is joined to our spirit and thus we are born again. Not everyone uses their spiritual part or have one for that matter.

Then you mention your uniqueness. Agreed...what makes you unique is your mind, your will, your emotions...this would be your soul. It makes you different from everyone else in the way you think and in your reactions and in how you see the world and understand what is around you and have emotions from this. Some are happy all the time, some sad. This has to do with how they have experienced this world --- life.



So you have a body...all the physical attributes.
You are spirit in the sense that you have a spirit part that is connected to God.
And you have a soul which is what makes you unique...your mind, will and emotions.

So the only part that is a bit unclear from your post is that your uniqueness comes from your mind, which is not wrong, but your mind is part of your soul...the untangible part of your body.

Well I would state my soul is part of my Spirit. As I am still one person. But when discussing "parts" I have to consider the soul vs the spirit because God can separate them. Therefore I assign my soul to that part of my being that makes me unique. My mind as in the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. One might state the heart of the spirit is the soul but if the heart consists of thoughts and attitudes that suggests mind to me. As I stated I am not 100 % percent sure of this conception.


For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Both Jesus and Stephen committed their Spirits to the Lord at their last breath. They didn't state soul.

Yet here we have just body and soul
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well I would state my soul is part of my Spirit. As I am still one person. But when discussing "parts" I have to consider the soul vs the spirit because God can separate them. Therefore I assign my soul to that part of my being that makes me unique. My mind as in the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. One might state the heart of the spirit is the soul but if the heart consists of thoughts and attitudes that suggests mind to me. As I stated I am not 100 % percent sure of this conception.

Randy, there are some biblical scholars who believe that man is made of 2 parts and not 3. This is called a dichotomy of man.
They believe, as you seem to, that the spirit is PART of the soul.
There's nothing wrong with this....the 3 parts are still present in one form or another. It just seems easier for me to know the 3 part model, trichotomy, to understand how man functions.

As you know, in the O.T. the heart is often referred to as if it were the spirit OR the soul. We do have to keep in mind that the O.T. was written 4 thousand years ago and man was not understood really well at that time. We know that the heart is an organ and does not hold either the spirit or the soul of a person.

This is helpful:

What is the heart, according to the Bible?

What is the heart, according to the Bible? What does the Bible mean when it talks about the heart? What is a biblical understanding of the human heart?

www.compellingtruth.org

Topical Bible: Heart

What is the difference between the soul and the spirit?

What is the difference between the soul and the spirit? If both the soul and spirit are immaterial, how are they distinct from each other?

www.compellingtruth.org

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Right! And you've just quoted the 3 parts of man:
The sword of God can divide SOUL, SPIRIT, and joints and marrow,,,which is the physical BODY.

We also find this in
1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Both Jesus and Stephen committed their Spirits to the Lord at their last breath. They didn't state soul.

Yet here we have just body and soul
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

All 3 were not mentioned at all times,,,but since the bible speaks of 3, we must accept that there are 3 elements, as I think you do accept.

Questions:
Does the body live after death? (immediately after)
Does the soul live after death?
Does the spirit live after death?

What dies and what continues to live.....
Are you still YOU after death...
Are you still connnected to God....
Which 2 parts would these be?

 

[Randy]

Randy, there are some biblical scholars who believe that man is made of 2 parts and not 3. This is called a dichotomy of man.
They believe, as you seem to, that the spirit is PART of the soul.
There's nothing wrong with this....the 3 parts are still present in one form or another. It just seems easier for me to know the 3 part model, trichotomy, to understand how man functions.

As you know, in the O.T. the heart is often referred to as if it were the spirit OR the soul. We do have to keep in mind that the O.T. was written 4 thousand years ago and man was not understood really well at that time. We know that the heart is an organ and does not hold either the spirit or the soul of a person.

This is helpful:

What is the heart, according to the Bible?

What is the heart, according to the Bible? What does the Bible mean when it talks about the heart? What is a biblical understanding of the human heart?

www.compellingtruth.org

Topical Bible: Heart

What is the difference between the soul and the spirit?

What is the difference between the soul and the spirit? If both the soul and spirit are immaterial, how are they distinct from each other?

www.compellingtruth.org

Right! And you've just quoted the 3 parts of man:
The sword of God can divide SOUL, SPIRIT, and joints and marrow,,,which is the physical BODY.

We also find this in
1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


All 3 were not mentioned at all times,,,but since the bible speaks of 3, we must accept that there are 3 elements, as I think you do accept.

Questions:
Does the body live after death? (immediately after)
Does the soul live after death?
Does the spirit live after death?

What dies and what continues to live.....
Are you still YOU after death...
Are you still connnected to God....
Which 2 parts would these be?

Does the body live after death? (immediately after)
No
Does the soul live after death?
Does the spirit live after death?
yes
Are you still YOU after death...
Are you still connnected to God..
yes
Are you still connnected to God....
yes
Which 2 parts would these be?
My Spirit and my mind - me
I assume the Spirit of Christ would be joined with me forever.

 

[GodsGrace]

Does the body live after death? (immediately after)
No
Does the soul live after death?
Does the spirit live after death?
yes
Are you still YOU after death...
Are you still connnected to God..
yes
Are you still connnected to God....
yes
Which 2 parts would these be?
My Spirit and my mind - me
I assume the Spirit of Christ would be joined with me forever.

Great!
Just.....
how about if you started calling THE MIND...
THE SOUL?
That way you'd be right in tune with theology...!


Good talking to you.

 

[Randy]

Great!
Just.....
how about if you started calling THE MIND...
THE SOUL?
That way you'd be right in tune with theology...!


Good talking to you.

What do you state is the difference between the mind and soul and heart?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[GodsGrace]

What do you state is the difference between the mind and soul and heart?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Good question.

As I've said before, in the O.T. which is the scriptures Jesus spoke of, the heart and mind and soul were considered differently as they are today in our scientific world.

So...heart: Do we love with the heart, or is it a manner of speaking?
All the heart does is pump blood. We love with our soul and our spirit.

Soul, in the O.T. was understood differently, to say the least.
And mind, was our brain and our way of thinking,,,which we now know is part of the soul of man...an intangible part.

You can read the following if you're intersted, or you could continue to believe that we love with our heart and that it is not just an expression.

I can't teach you Randy,,,you can accept or not. The concept of soul was different than how it is understood today and has changed over time.

The following are full of information.

The Standard Bearer Magazine by Reformed Free Publishing Association | RFPA – Reformed Semi-Monthly Magazine by Reformed Free Publishing Association | SB Magazine

standardbearer.rfpa.org

Topical Bible: Soul

Soul in the Bible - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Randy]

Good question.

As I've said before, in the O.T. which is the scriptures Jesus spoke of, the heart and mind and soul were considered differently as they are today in our scientific world.

So...heart: Do we love with the heart, or is it a manner of speaking?
All the heart does is pump blood. We love with our soul and our spirit.

Soul, in the O.T. was understood differently, to say the least.
And mind, was our brain and our way of thinking,,,which we now know is part of the soul of man...an intangible part.

You can read the following if you're intersted, or you could continue to believe that we love with our heart and that it is not just an expression.

I can't teach you Randy,,,you can accept or not. The concept of soul was different than how it is understood today and has changed over time.

The following are full of information.

The Standard Bearer Magazine by Reformed Free Publishing Association | RFPA – Reformed Semi-Monthly Magazine by Reformed Free Publishing Association | SB Magazine

standardbearer.rfpa.org

Topical Bible: Soul

Soul in the Bible - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't think man understands spirit. The center that controls our thoughts, attitudes, emotions is part of our being. It makes us unique from one another. I tend to conceptualize that unique part as my mind since there doesn't appear to be a clear cut written teaching in scripture that defines such a part reading opinions that have as you stated, changed, doesn't leave me with confidence anyone knows the exact truth of the matter.
When my end comes it will be "Lord Jesus into your hands I commit my spirit and the part that God created/formed, my soul, will be in His hands.

He didn't define parts
A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.
The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares....

 

[Randy]

Good question.

As I've said before, in the O.T. which is the scriptures Jesus spoke of, the heart and mind and soul were considered differently as they are today in our scientific world.

So...heart: Do we love with the heart, or is it a manner of speaking?
All the heart does is pump blood. We love with our soul and our spirit.

Soul, in the O.T. was understood differently, to say the least.
And mind, was our brain and our way of thinking,,,which we now know is part of the soul of man...an intangible part.

You can read the following if you're intersted, or you could continue to believe that we love with our heart and that it is not just an expression.

I can't teach you Randy,,,you can accept or not. The concept of soul was different than how it is understood today and has changed over time.

The following are full of information.

The Standard Bearer Magazine by Reformed Free Publishing Association | RFPA – Reformed Semi-Monthly Magazine by Reformed Free Publishing Association | SB Magazine

standardbearer.rfpa.org

Topical Bible: Soul

Soul in the Bible - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Its not of matter of you not being able to teach me on this subject. I am unable to search the scriptures on this subject to see if what you state is truth. That's the problem. Neither the Apostles nor Jesus gave a lecture on Soul vs Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

Its not of matter of you not being able to teach me on this subject. I am unable to search the scriptures on this subject to see if what you state is truth. That's the problem. Neither the Apostles nor Jesus gave a lecture on Soul vs Spirit.

R, I didn't mean that I can't teach you because of you...
I meant that I'm not capable of teaching as a scholar would.
Later with your other post...
waiting for a doctor.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think man understands spirit. The center that controls our thoughts, attitudes, emotions is part of our being. It makes us unique from one another. I tend to conceptualize that unique part as my mind since there doesn't appear to be a clear cut written teaching in scripture that defines such a part reading opinions that have as you stated, changed, doesn't leave me with confidence anyone knows the exact truth of the matter.
When my end comes it will be "Lord Jesus into your hands I commit my spirit and the part that God created/formed, my soul, will be in His hands.

He didn't define parts
A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.
The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares....

Randy, by now I've understood that you will only accept biblical support....

What's the problem with 1 Thessalonians 5:23?
At this time, the make-up of man was much more understood than at the time of the O.T. I see the articles didn't help at all...

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The 3 parts of man are explicitly stated above. It just helps to understand how man is made and how one part effects the other parts.

If you don't care to accept this, it's OK.

The only other comment I'd make is this:
The Trinity is not in the bible.
(only as expressed)
Do you accept the Trinity and how it's explained by theology?

This is the same.
Theology has explained what the bible did not make clear and only became clearer due to on-going revelation that had to be deciphered by the Early Church Fathers, who were the first theologians after the Apostles.

I do think that unless you care to explore this further for your own understanding..further posts are not conducive to any understanding.

 

[Randy]

Randy, by now I've understood that you will only accept biblical support....

What's the problem with 1 Thessalonians 5:23?
At this time, the make-up of man was much more understood than at the time of the O.T. I see the articles didn't help at all...

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The 3 parts of man are explicitly stated above. It just helps to understand how man is made and how one part effects the other parts.

If you don't care to accept this, it's OK.

The only other comment I'd make is this:
The Trinity is not in the bible.
(only as expressed)
Do you accept the Trinity and how it's explained by theology?

This is the same.
Theology has explained what the bible did not make clear and only became clearer due to on-going revelation that had to be deciphered by the Early Church Fathers, who were the first theologians after the Apostles.

I do think that unless you care to explore this further for your own understanding..further posts are not conducive to any understanding.

The scripture you give doesn't define Soul. As I stated I conceptualize the part of me as in attitudes, thoughts, emotions even will as the mind of the spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

The scripture you give doesn't define Soul. As I stated I conceptualize the part of me as in attitudes, thoughts, emotions even will as the mind of the spirit.

I've never heard of the "mind of the Spirit".

 

[Randy]

I've never heard of the "mind of the Spirit".

reasoned from below
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

reasoned from below
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

You explain this a little differently.
What I do know is that our spirit does indeed affect the soul....which is the mind, the will, and our emotions.

If we're not functioning with God's grace or spirit then our thinking will be different, what we wish and will will be different, and our emotions will be different. All for the worse.

If we ARE functioning with God's spirit that connects to our spirit, then all of the above functions of the soul will certainly be affected.
Our way of thinking is more in tune with God...what we want, wish for and will is more in tune with God, and our emotions will be more in tune with God.

Jesus did teach about this. He taught that we should not worry or become distressed about tomorrow...He taught that we should be humble and kind, He taught that we should help others when we can. He desired that our spirit be in tune with God's spirit.

 

[Randy]

You explain this a little differently.
What I do know is that our spirit does indeed affect the soul....which is the mind, the will, and our emotions.

If we're not functioning with God's grace or spirit then our thinking will be different, what we wish and will will be different, and our emotions will be different. All for the worse.

If we ARE functioning with God's spirit that connects to our spirit, then all of the above functions of the soul will certainly be affected.
Our way of thinking is more in tune with God...what we want, wish for and will is more in tune with God, and our emotions will be more in tune with God.

Jesus did teach about this. He taught that we should not worry or become distressed about tomorrow...He taught that we should be humble and kind, He taught that we should help others when we can. He desired that our spirit be in tune with God's spirit.

You speak of the new creation. Where God puts His Spirit to dwell in us with our spirit.
Romans 8
Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

There is no correct answer...all are welcome.

Are we made up of two parts, or three parts;
Do we have a
BODY
SOUL ---- and what about the spirit? Would it be part of the soul?
This is a Dichotomy

OR
Do we have a
BODY
SOUL
SPIRIT
This is a Trichotomy

How does the concept you believe function....
and does the Spirit have needs...
Tas, for example, the body has needs: Like food.

Body Soul and Holy Spirit