Two Thrones?

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YehwehPaladin

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I've heard many people speaking about two different thrones in the time of judgement. A great white throne and another one. One is for the sinners, one is for the redeemed. I've searched through the Bible and thus far have been unable to find it. Does anyone know where these two are listed?
 
The Great White Throne Judgment

Rev 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. [/b]

The judgment seat of Christ
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.



Daniel chapter 7 also gives a glimpse into the throne room.
 
Those are indeed scriptures describing the judgment seat of Christ (for the Church/Body of Christ in the heavenlies), and the final judgment of the resurrected dead before the great white throne.

Many theologians, and myself, believe there are more judgments, namely:

1. The judgment of the cross:
The results being, on the basis of Christ's death, justification and conciliation of all believing mankind. (See Rom.3:24-26; 4:25; 5:18,19; 2 Cor. 5:18,19,21; Col. 1:19-20).

2. The judgment of the house of God:
In the coming indignation (tribulation), Israel will be tested (judged) as they have never been. This period, called the 'time of Jacob's trouble', will severly test the house of Jacob, many being martyred, and no doubt, many will accept and worship the "man of sin" and his image. Out of this will come a remnant of believers, some still alive having 'endured to the end', those martyred being resurrected after the return of Messiah Jesus. (Eze. 20:34-38; 22:19-22; Jer. 30:4-7; Dan. 12:1)

3. The glory throne judgment:
After the unveiling of Christ in power and much glory, he will sit on the throne of glory on the earth, to judge the living nations surviving the tribulaion. The basis of judgment is their treatment of Christ's brethren, the Jews, during the coming tribulation. The result is, some nations (peoples) will be 'saved', and others will be 'chastened'. (Matt. 25:31-46)

Bick
 
But is the judgement seat of Christ proper to be described as a throne?
We have one throne in heaven, the one who sits on it and the lamb standing in the center of it.

Revelation 5:12
 
We have one throne in heaven, the one who sits on it and the lamb standing in the center of it.
In the Center of the Throne

“Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne [of God].” - Rev. 5:6, NIV.

Some imply that the slain Lamb (obviously the heavenly-resurrected Christ) must be God because he is in the middle of God’s throne in this verse.

There is never any doubt that the one seated on God’s throne in Rev. 4 and 5 is God.

“They [the 24 elders] lay their crowns before the throne and say: ‘You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things.” - Rev. 4:10, 11 NASB.

But the Lamb is never called God, nor does he sit on the throne of God in these two chapters. He approaches God, and is clearly differentiated from God:

“To him who sits on the throne [God] and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory....” Rev. 5:13, NASB.

So why is the Lamb standing in the center of the throne of God? Well here is how it reads in the original Greek: “And I saw in midst of the throne (en meso tou thronou) ... lamb standing....” Thayer tells us of this NT Greek word meso:

“in midst of, i.e. in the space within, tou thronou [‘the throne’] (which must be conceived of as having a semicircular shape [c-shaped]: Rev. iv. 6; v. 6.”

Thayer continues with an explanation of Rev. 5:6 that meso means

between the throne and the four living creatures and the elders (i.e. in the vacant space between the throne and the living creatures [on one side] and elders [on the other side], accordingly nearest the throne.” - p. 402, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Baker Book House.

New Testament expert A. T. Robertson also takes this to mean “before” or in front of the throne. - Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. vi, p. 328.

Accordingly, many modern translations use “between” here (rather than “in the center of”): “between the throne and the four living creatures“- RSV; The Jerusalem Bible; NASB; NAB (1970 ed.); NRSV; The Amplified Bible (1965); MLB (1969); Beck’s The Holy Bible in the Language of Today (1976); C. B. Williams’ New Testament in the Language of the People (1963); REB; Living Bible; CEB; ESV; HCSB; Mounce; NLT.

But no matter how you wish to translate en meso tou thronou, it is obvious that the Lamb’s being there does not make him God. Simply look at Rev. 4:6 and the complete Rev. 5:6. We see in Rev. 4:6 that the four living creatures are en meso tou thronou just as the lamb is in 5:6! If that means the Lamb is God, then it also means the four living creatures are God!

A further examination of Rev. 4:6 reveals this additional information concerning “en meso tou thronou” and the throne of God. These 4 living creatures (“beasts” - KJV) are “in the midst of the throne and around the throne.” This could mean that they are positioned around the throne so that each one is standing in the center of each side. For that reason, the translators of TEV and GNB translated it:

“surrounding the throne on each of its sides.” CBW and Beck both translate: “in the middle of each side of the throne.” (Cf. RSV, MLB, and LB.)

This understanding and these renderings by modern Bibles correlate well with Ezekiel’s vision of Jehovah’s throne at Ezek. 1:15-22 where the 4 living creatures (Cherubs) are stationed at each corner of the throne (or chariot which supports the throne).

It could also mean the four living creatures are in the central position in heaven (or in the throne room) where the throne of God is located. For this reason, The Jerusalem Bible reads: “in the center, grouped around the throne itself.”

The above gives us good evidence for determining what en meso tou thronou may mean for the position of the Lamb in Rev. 5:6.

Or merely examine all of the scripture in question. Rev. 5:6 reads literally in the Greek:

“And I saw in midst of the throne [en meso tou thronou] and of the four living [creatures] and in midst of [en meso] the older persons lamb having stood as having been slaughtered.”

Again we see the four living creatures in the “midst” of the throne, and also the Lamb is in the “midst” of the 24 elders. The 24 elders, then, must also be in the “midst” of the throne with Jesus. This does not make any of them God, of course.

(From my file "Throne")
 
What would be the purpose or theme of this post? Is this proving a modelist perspective on what god is? Proving different?

But no matter how you wish to translate en meso tou thronou, it is obvious that the Lamb’s being there does not make him God. Simply look at Rev. 4:6 and the complete Rev. 5:6. We see in Rev. 4:6 that the four living creatures are en meso tou thronou just as the lamb is in 5:6! If that means the Lamb is God, then it also means the four living creatures are God!

While the descriptions of God, and Jesus are very different in Eze and Rev, and while Jesus said he sat on his Fathers throne meaning He also had one. You done such a great study here and forgot to examine the Word "god" "theos in Greek. What a shame, it could have been a great study. However without all that work......One simple scripture in English would have made it clear.

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

There are two thrones, father and son.

Now the question is, are the elders gods also? See, that is where you did not continuing studying. Was looking really good......

Mike.
 
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