TwoPart?ForFuturists

[Hitch]

1. Can the rapture happen at any moment?

1.a , Is Bible prophecy being fulfilled today?

 

[freeway]

1. Can the rapture happen at any moment?

1.a , Is Bible prophecy being fulfilled today?

YES
YES

 

[jasoncran]

his return is immeniant but not a rapture.

what was said on the signs hasnt changed all that much.

peter spoke of false prophets in his day and said these would come and to freeway why would he tell them to look for the signs if he didnt think or know the lord could come then?

 

[freeway]

his return is immeniant but not a rapture.

what was said on the signs hasnt changed all that much.

peter spoke of false prophets in his day and said these would come and to freeway why would he tell them to look for the signs if he didnt think or know the lord could come then?

Yes there where false prophets in Pauls day. Of course Jesus would not give away the day of his return. Just suppose Jesus said I'm not coming back until 2025 how would it effect the people of 35 AD or 80 AD. So if you know the hour when the thief is coming you can relax until that hour.. true

 

[jasoncran]

Yes there where false prophets in Pauls day. Of course Jesus would not give away the day of his return. Just suppose Jesus said I'm not coming back until 2025 how would it effect the people of 35 AD or 80 AD. So if you know the hour when the thief is coming you can relax until that hour.. true

yes but the signs of then arent much different then now.

in fact isreal was around then till ad 70.

they had quakes,. wars and rumours of wars. and false prophets, so what has changed? men still sin. if you take that in context with all other end time prophecy with matthew 24 references to the days of noah. you get the idea that is like this we are in the world of sin and he comes to judge suddenly and unexceptidly. he had noah build the ark and it took one hundred years yet the people didnt listen and didnt know the day when it would rain. then one day it did.

 

[jasoncran]

and in context no man knoweth the hour cant mean the hour was modern westerners mean. for to the jews of the original audience and the readers who know of yom keturah that means to be looking for the moon and be ready for the rabbi to confirm the the feast will be declared.

that is how it reads to me given some knowlegde of ancient judiasm

 

[Hitch]

YES
YES

Are there more bible prophecies to be fulfilled this week, month, year, etc?

What is you favorite fulfillment so far?

 

[freeway]

and in context no man knoweth the hour cant mean the hour was modern westerners mean. for to the jews of the original audience and the readers who know of yom keturah that means to be looking for the moon and be ready for the rabbi to confirm the the feast will be declared.

that is how it reads to me given some knowlegde of ancient judiasm

this is true Jason I'm impressed, Yes they had to keep watch as to the first new moon, and no one knew when this would exactly happen. But on the same line it is still talking about how no one would know the time... but the season could be known.

 

[Hitch]

and in context no man knoweth the hour cant mean the hour was modern westerners mean. for to the jews of the original audience and the readers who know of yom keturah that means to be looking for the moon and be ready for the rabbi to confirm the the feast will be declared.

that is how it reads to me given some knowlegde of ancient judiasm

Is the passage alluded to concerned with the return of Christ?

 

[n2thelight]

1. Can the rapture happen at any moment?

1.a , Is Bible prophecy being fulfilled today?

There will be no rapture,and Christ cannot return at any moment.....Prophecy being fulfilled is the reason He can't......

 

[Stormcrow]

In keeping with the spirit of Hitch's post (if you ever get a blog, call it "The Hitching Post"), I decided to write a Messianic Rabbi a question I had about something we've been discussing here lately. As I only received an automated response from his ministry, I'll open the same questions I asked Him up to the members here. So here is the salient part of the letter I sent him complete with my questions. See if you can tackle them.

After watching your program, I decided to visit your web site and in reading the information there I found this:

"Jewish people turning to faith in Messiah Yeshua through the witness of Gentile believers will usher in His return."

For the past 4 years I have been intensely studying the connection between the Olivet Discourse, Revelation, and the Old Testament, and would like to ask a question (if I may) about the second coming of Christ.

In Matthew 10:23, Jesus tells His disciples this:
{23} "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23 (NASB)

Then in Matthew 16:27-28, Jesus tells the disciples this:
{27} "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. {28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

Now some people have suggested this refers to the Transfiguration, however Matthew records Jesus telling Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin virtually the same thing after the transfiguration, at His trial:
{64} Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Matthew 26:64 (NASB)

It seems to me from reading these passages, that His second coming was set during a time frame when both His disciples - those who survived the persecution He said they would face - and even the Sanhedrin and Caiaphas would see it.

So may I ask a couple of questions about this?

First, is it true that Christ led both His disciples and the Sanhedrin to believe - based on the passages I cited - that they would see His return during their lifetimes?

If so, does that change the way we need to understand what He meant by His coming "in the clouds" based on similar prophetic language in Isaiah 19:1 and Daniel 7:13?

{1} The oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them. Isaiah 19:1 (NASB)

{13} "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. Daniel 7:13 (NASB)

So to recap: did Jesus lead those of His time to believe He would return in their lifetimes or not?

If so, does that change the way we have to view what the Bible teaches about His second coming?

Knock yourselves out!

 

[jasoncran]

this is true Jason I'm impressed, Yes they had to keep watch as to the first new moon, and no one knew when this would exactly happen. But on the same line it is still talking about how no one would know the time... but the season could be known.

so there wasnt some rumours of wars then? no earthquakes. falling away from the faith either? no dying in martydom. hmm and the season of this has been since the time of christs ressurection

 

[Hitch]

So may I ask a couple of questions about this?

First, is it true that Christ led both His disciples and the Sanhedrin to believe - based on the passages I cited - that they would see His return during their lifetimes?

If so, does that change the way we need to understand what He meant by His coming "in the clouds" based on similar prophetic language in Isaiah 19:1 and Daniel 7:13?

1. No


2. Well you have clearly shown that in Scripture the Lord's 'coming' is most often realized in the spiritual as none of the passages cited require His physical presence,in contrast to the Nativity. It is also important that none of the passages make reference to or mention directly anything about returning, the returning part is added subjectively.
I've heard many,far too many, preachers speak of Jesus saying 'When I return this and that will happen', I dont believe Jesus ever said He would return. Obviously a small fraction of the human race will live to witness that event, while every generation will 'see' his coming in judgement either as history or in the ordering of events in their lifetimes.

 

[Hitch]

I cant remember ever getting that 'extra hour' of sleep....

 

[Hitch]

There will be no rapture,and Christ cannot return at any moment.....Prophecy being fulfilled is the reason He can't......

Can you cite specific prophecies and fulfillments?

 

[freeway]

so there wasnt some rumours of wars then? no earthquakes. falling away from the faith either? no dying in martydom. hmm and the season of this has been since the time of christs ressurection

Sorry Jason been busy, To answer the first part of your question. Yes I'm sure there has always been war and rumors of wars. Earthquakes has always been around since the "flood". As for the falling away sure to some degree, martydom yes and continues to this day. But nothing like the end times that Jesus spoke of. No reason to butt heads on all these events. Just one question back at you and be honest and think about it ... When in all of history has man had the abillity to destroy all of mankind... No flesh would survive if Jesus does not come back and stop it. "war"

 

[Hitch]

Sorry Jason been busy, To answer the first part of your question. Yes I'm sure there has always been war and rumors of wars. Earthquakes has always been around since the "flood". As for the falling away sure to some degree, martydom yes and continues to this day. But nothing like the end times that Jesus spoke of. No reason to butt heads on all athese events. Just one question back at you and be honest and think about it ... When in all of history has man had the abillity to destroy all of mankind

When Cain and Abel lived outside the Garden and shortly after the Flood.

... No flesh would survive if Jesus does not come back and stop it. "war"

If prophetic fulfillment requires that man has the capability of total destruction, presumably you have the nuclear age in mind, then it must be true that the rapture was not and could not have been imminent before the late 1950s.

 

[jasoncran]

Sorry Jason been busy, To answer the first part of your question. Yes I'm sure there has always been war and rumors of wars. Earthquakes has always been around since the "flood". As for the falling away sure to some degree, martydom yes and continues to this day. But nothing like the end times that Jesus spoke of. No reason to butt heads on all these events. Just one question back at you and be honest and think about it ... When in all of history has man had the abillity to destroy all of mankind... No flesh would survive if Jesus does not come back and stop it. "war"

ok let me ask you this. what flesh survives the fiery jugdement coming ? peter spoke of that? he refers to the flood.

i am beginning to see that revalation is about isreals judgment and peters verse speaks of the end of age of mans rebellion. not fully convinced but it makes sense at times.

 

[freeway]

ok let me ask you this. what flesh survives the fiery jugdement coming ? peter spoke of that? he refers to the flood.

i am beginning to see that revalation is about isreals judgment and peters verse speaks of the end of age of mans rebellion. not fully convinced but it makes sense at times.

Jason are you talking about the new heaven and earth after the 1000 yr mil?

 

[Hitch]

You gents are formally requested to at least keep the topic in sight.