TwoPart?ForFuturists

[Hitch]

I don't get you.

Get a grip, the context you claim to be so important , for Acts 1;11 is found earlier in Acts 1, regardless of the lack of support it gives your position.

In the passages I cited that prompted this whole exchange. You should probably revisit them (Matt. 10, 16, 26. You can throw in Matt. 24, too for good measure.)

I'll repeat the question ,but only once;

Where in scripture does the risen Christ speak of judgments coming ?

Would still like to read your definition of "second advent" and "return" as you understand these terms.

Second Advent; Bodily return of Jesus Christ, return; see above.

Thanks.

 

[for_his_glory]

TwoPart?ForFuturists

1. Can the rapture happen at any moment?

1.a , Is Bible prophecy being fulfilled today?

Are these not the two questions you asked in your OP and have I not only posted that which you have asked.

Hitch, you have succeeded to take away and add to what I have been posting here by twisting and manipulating what I have written and to know that you have made me look like a total idiot to others so I guess I am in good company with Jesus as they came against his teachings also as Jesus said if the world hates you just know it hated me first. (I know you do not hate me so do not read anything into this please!!!)

The word rapture is not even in the Bible as it was only called that in the 1800's and others have used that word since then as it's called being caught up in 1Thessalonians 4:17 and if you would really dig into the word instead of following social teachings that come against the word of truth you would see that we are not going to be caught up with Jesus until the 7th trumpet in Revelation, but I am not going to get into that for if you would have gone to my website you would understand why I teach this.

I have stucked with your two questions in relation to being caught at any moment, which I hold fast that we could be for we do not know Gods timing, but to only look at the signs God gives us and yes Bible prophecy is still being fulfilled today as events line up for Christ return. Earthquakes are increasing as we had one in our town here in Pa. which never gets earthquakes and look at the increase as all you need is to hear the news or read a newspaper to see the increase. It doesn't matter if they size them or baseline them there are now more happening then ever as all the signs are increasing that are given in Matthew 24.

I use to believe in a pretrib rapture, but when I really started digging into the supporting scriptures there was nothing there to indicate a pretrib, but only that we would go through much tribulation before Jesus returns in the air for his bride. It's your right to believe what you want as well as it is my right to believe what I do, but it is not your right to belittle or come against what others believe as on these forums we share our knowledge and as long as we are giving scriptures to support ourselves it is up to the individual to study those scriptures so they will know what is truth or error in the word of God. Each one of us that are Spiritually born-again will stand before the Lord individually to give account for what we have tried to teach others and only Jesus will judge our spoken words so I will now bow out of this topic so I will remain pleasing to the Father as I have said all I am going to say on this subject and may Gods grace and mercy be prevalent in your own walk with the Lord.

 

[Hitch]

TwoPart?ForFuturists

1. Can the rapture happen at any moment?

1.a , Is Bible prophecy being fulfilled today?

Are these not the two questions you asked in your OP and have I not only posted that which you have asked.

Hitch, you have succeeded to take away and add to what I have been posting here by twisting and manipulating what I have written and to know that you have made me look like a total idiot to others so I guess I am in good company with Jesus as they came against his teachings also as Jesus said if the world hates you just know it hated me first. (I know you do not hate me so do not read anything into this please!!!)

I quoted you accurately and fairly, and as I've said before futurism is at its heart liberalism, and liberals hate it when you cite their records . Since you have problems with what you have posted I suggest looking in the mirror before casting about accusations.

The word rapture is not even in the Bible as it was only called that in the 1800's and others have used that word since then as it's called being caught up in 1Thessalonians 4:17 and if you would really dig into the word instead of following social teachings that come against the word of truth you would see that we are not going to be caught up with Jesus until the 7th trumpet in Revelation, but I am not going to get into that for if you would have gone to my website you would understand why I teach this.

I have stucked with your two questions in relation to being caught at any moment, which I hold fast that we could be for we do not know Gods timing, but to only look at the signs God gives us and yes Bible prophecy is still being fulfilled today as events line up for Christ return. Earthquakes are increasing as we had one in our town here in Pa. which never gets earthquakes and look at the increase as all you need is to hear the news or read a newspaper to see the increase. It doesn't matter if they size them or baseline them there are now more happening then ever as all the signs are increasing that are given in Matthew 24.

Remember what I said about the mirror.

I use to believe in a pretrib rapture, but when I really started digging into the supporting scriptures there was nothing there to indicate a pretrib, but only that we would go through much tribulation before Jesus returns in the air for his bride. It's your right to believe what you want as well as it is my right to believe what I do, but it is not your right to belittle or come against what others believe as on these forums we share our knowledge and as long as we are giving scriptures to support ourselves it is up to the individual to study those scriptures so they will know what is truth or error in the word of God.

When anyone puts anything up on a public forum it is done with the knowledge that it is open for comment and criticism. Now the rules here allow the author to request only like minded members participate in a specific thread and some threads are expressly non debate, mine are open

Each one of us that are Spiritually born-again will stand before the Lord individually to give account for what we have tried to teach others and only Jesus will judge our spoken words so I will now bow out of this topic so I will remain pleasing to the Father as I have said all I am going to say on this subject and may Gods grace and mercy be prevalent in your own walk with the Lord.

Im glad to hear you have gotten beyond 'pre-trib' nonsense. Its time to face it. Your comments about Noah were nonsensical and the quakes,,, I urge you to square your expectations with what Jesus said concerning the resurrection in John 6.

 

[Stormcrow]

Second Advent; Bodily return of Jesus Christ, return; see above.

Ah, ok. So now we get to the root of the issue. You're still looking for a bodily return of Christ and using Acts 1:11 out of context to justify that position.

The immediate context of verse 11 is found in verse 9. He went into heaven in a cloud and He came back (returned) on a cloud, just as He told the disciples He would here:

{27} "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. {28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

and the Sanhedrin here:


{64} Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Matthew 26:64 (NASB)

This is completely consistent with what the angels told the disciples on the Mount of Olives:

{9} And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. {10} And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. {11} They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." Acts 1:9-11 (NASB)

You can't simply focus on a single verse Hitch and use it to justify a whole doctrine. You accuse me of doing what the futurists do but then do yourself what cultists do! lol

I get it now. I disagree with your position. Thanks anyway.

 

[Hitch]

Ah, ok. So now we get to the root of the issue. You're still looking for a bodily return of Christ and using Acts 1:11 out of context to justify that position.

The immediate context of verse 11 is found in verse 9. He went into heaven in a cloud and He came back (returned) on a cloud, just as He told the disciples He would here:

Wrong on both counts.

{27} "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. {28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

So because the angels mentions the clouds in the sky and no clouds are even mentioned of the passage you chose, clouds are the only important factor?. Well thats makes as much sense as the rest of this trash. I do get a chuckle out of your acting as though his death and resurrection, are meaningless wrt the context of Acts1. That is desperate.

and the Sanhedrin here:


{64} Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Matthew 26:64 (NASB)

This is completely consistent with what the angels told the disciples on the Mount of Olives:

{9} And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. {10} And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. {11} They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." Acts 1:9-11 (NASB)

You can't simply focus on a single verse Hitch and use it to justify a whole doctrine. You accuse me of doing what the futurists do but then do yourself what cultists do! lol

I'd say you're head was in the clouds but its obviously somewhere else. You ignore the facts involved at your peril.

I get it now. I disagree with your position. Thanks anyway.

Still cant get the risen Christ to talk about judgments eh?

 

[Stormcrow]

Still cant get the risen Christ to talk about judgments eh?

Try the book of Revelation.

I'd say you're head was in the clouds but its obviously somewhere else.

I've been insulted by better than you. But thanks for playing.

So because the angels mentions the clouds in the sky and no clouds are even mentioned of the passage you chose, clouds are the only important factor?

No, Hitch. His return is the important factor. But feel free to put any kind of spin on this you wish. I don't care.

You ignore the facts involved at your peril.

Oh, and when you're willing and able to post any facts yourself instead of taking cheap shots at people with whom you disagree, I'll be happy to look at them.

 

[reba]

2.5: Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.

 

[Hitch]

Try the book of Revelation.

Hmmm are you implying the Apocalypse came before the events of Acts 1 ? But I'll bite, exactly where in Revelation does Jesus pronounce judgment against Jerusalem/Israel ?

I've been insulted by better than you.

And that was far beyond anything you deserve MY APOLOGIES

But thanks for playing.
No, Hitch. His return is the important factor. But feel free to put any kind of spin on this you wish. I don't care.

What you have posted doesnt leave that impression.

Oh, and when you're willing and able to post any facts yourself instead of taking cheap shots at people with whom you disagree, I'll be happy to look at them.

I already have and you did the best you could.

 

[Stormcrow]

Apology accepted, Hitch. Quite frankly, I'm torn about continuing this discussion because I simply don't understand what you are trying to convey and am disheartened by your aggressive posture. In other words, from your very first post on this matter it seems as though you have assumed I know the basis for your objections to what I have tried to explain now several times, with no further clarification offered on your part. I don't mind discussing things. I don't like to be put in a position of having to read minds or guess at what you're thinking.

If you want to clarify your objections in the form of a counter-argument, wherein you specify exactly where you think I've "gone off the rails", I'll consider it. But I'm not going to participate any further unless and until I can get a clearer picture of where you're coming from.

State your case then I'll try to address your questions.

 

[Hitch]

Apology accepted, Hitch. Quite frankly, I'm torn about continuing this discussion because I simply don't understand what you are trying to convey and am disheartened by your aggressive posture. In other words, from your very first post on this matter it seems as though you have assumed I know the basis for your objections to what I have tried to explain now several times, with no further clarification offered on your part. I don't mind discussing things. I don't like to be put in a position of having to read minds or guess at what you're thinking.

If you want to clarify your objections in the form of a counter-argument, wherein you specify exactly where you think I've "gone off the rails", I'll consider it. But I'm not going to participate any further unless and until I can get a clearer picture of where you're coming from.

State your case then I'll try to address your questions.

Actually Storm you are the sole respondent who never addressed the OT and you have quite a list of questions from me, yet to be answered. So its a long stretch for you to step in offering complaints.