Bible Study "Under the Law"...Means...

[Bob10]

Any law that can be abolished was probably not necessary in the first place.

When Congress repeals a law, it is usually because it did not work.



Matthew 22:34-40 --- In saying that "all the law" hangs on these two great laws, Jesus established the basis of the law. The law is rooted in the love of God and the love of neighbor. It grows out of the way things are - out of nature. There is human nature and there is a divine nature. Part of the law teaches man how to love his neighbor, while the rest teaches him how to love God.

Could a law rooted in the nature of things be readily abolished?


http://www.abcog.org/lesson5.htm


http://www.abcog.org/lesson6.htm

 

[John the Baptist]

Any law that can be abolished was probably not necessary in the first place.

When Congress repeals a law, it is usually because it did not work.



Matthew 22:34-40 --- In saying that "all the law" hangs on these two great laws, Jesus established the basis of the law. The law is rooted in the love of God and the love of neighbor. It grows out of the way things are - out of nature. There is human nature and there is a divine nature. Part of the law teaches man how to love his neighbor, while the rest teaches him how to love God.

Could a law rooted in the nature of things be readily abolished?

***
John here: 2 Corinthians 3:3 sayes to me that the Eternal Hebrews 13:20 Covenant or 'Epistle MORAL LETTER' of Christ cannot ever be done away with! Eternal covers both directions, Imortal! How long a time is that??:wink:
It is called the Eternal Gospel of Christ in Revelation 14:6 (first part of the verse) ! A COMPLETE God! Compare Hebrews 8:10 & Hebrews 10:15-16
***

http://www.abcog.org/lesson5.htm


http://www.abcog.org/lesson6.htm

 

[English]

I have studied the Master's Word for over 36 + years and never have read more than just ten Commandments in what He Himself personally wrote to us? And the Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 tell's me that this is the 'whole duty of man'.

You must also then be aware of leviticus and deuteronomy. Such things as, "you must not boil a kid in it's mother's milk" and all the other ceremonial cleansings and washings and everything else. All of these consist of what is called, "the law". Are you telling me you've been reading the bible for 36 years and you haven't read that?

If you insist on your ten commandments (the law of moses) then you have evidently missed this scripture:

Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Please note! There are things that you cannot be justified of in keeping the law of moses according to scripture.

 

[mutzrein]

What are you saying to me Jay T?

That I don't know God because I am not obedient to Him?

Take no offense, we are all guilty, myself included.
It is natural to want our own way, and that is the 'BIG' sin in our lives, wanting our own way,instead of living absolutely, and totally surrendered to Jesus Christ, at all times of our daily lives.

Since we have a sinful nature our natural inclination is to listen to satan's suggestions more readily than to what God has to say....therefore satan always has the advantage....which we must daily war against.

I think what is missing Jay T is that there seems to be a lack of understanding of what it means to walk in the Spirit. The Spirit and the flesh are at war with each other. If we walk in the Spirit then we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh. And if we die to the flesh then it has no effect on us.

 

[John the Baptist]

I have studied the Master's Word for over 36 + years and never have read more than just ten Commandments in what He Himself personally wrote to us? And the Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 tell's me that this is the 'whole duty of man'.

You must also then be aware of leviticus and deuteronomy. Such things as, "you must not boil a kid in it's mother's milk" and all the other ceremonial cleansings and washings and everything else. All of these consist of what is called, "the law". Are you telling me you've been reading the bible for 36 years and you haven't read that?

If you insist on your ten commandments (the law of moses) then you have evidently missed this scripture:

Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Please note! There are things that you cannot be justified of in keeping the law of moses according to scripture.

*****
John here with an old post from this site:

You still do not get it! (i hope that, that is all the problem is) Read the whole chapter in context! Verse 1 & verse 5 tells you what the meeting was all about!!! It was Not about the ETERNAL COVENANT OF GOD!!!

It states in Inspiration the Words of Moses LAW. Not the Godheads Royal Law! Now, what have you talked about above??? Burdens?? That is what God's Covenant is to you, a BURDEN???? (again, you need to have a Born Again MIND!)

And Necessary things?? READ ECCL. 12:13-14! This the WHOLE DUTY OF MAN! Not any Jew either. Man as in Mankind! Which Keep the Commandments of GOD, that is the CONCLUSION OF THE *WHOLE MATTER! FOR GOD WILL BRING EVERY WORK INTO JUDGEMENT!! Again, for mankind!

Then, meats, blood, and strangled... Where on earth do you see anything like this in the 10 Commandments that God Himself wrote!???????Then you conclude with faith & shipwreck! I suggest that you read Heb. 6:1-6 for this, and 2 Peter 2:19-22 & tell us how this was possible with your theology?

OK: Back into Acts 15. Check the center index verses! In Gal. 2:11-14 the issue was with Peter before them all.. over CIRCUMCISION. NOT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS or the SABBATH one that seems to be hated the most. by some here. Then come verses 16-18 with more of the works of the ceremonial law. Take note! There is no WORK in OBEDIENCE OF THE ETERNAL COVENANT!! Christ say that "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS". That is not BONDAGE WHEN ONES LOVES CHRIST! It is only BONDAGE TO THEM THAT HAVE NOT BEEN BORN AGAIN!! Gal. 3:10 CALL'S IT THE "BOOK OF THE LAW". Again Moses law was written in a book by him & placed in the side of the Ark, not INSIDE where the eternal Covenant of the Godhead was kept. Deut. 31:9 & verses 24-26.

Then we see the Word of bondage, begardly elements and , where unto how ye turn again to the weak and beggarly elements.. Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you'. Gal. 4:9-10 in part. (you can tell God how you can get His eternal Covenant of Heb. 13:20 wound up in that???) Then in Gal. 4:1-4 again we see NOTHING ABOUT THE ETERNAL COVENANT OF THE **GODHEAD!! [CIRCUMCISM]!! Circumcism is again the issue that Paul went up to Jerusalem for in the first place and about the law of Moses is what Inspiration documented!!

Now over in Ephesians 2:13-15 we see the law Moses pointed to CHRIST. (Even Gal. 3:19 told why it was added) Notice verse 15 of Eph. 2, it says "Having abolished the law of commandments contained in ORDINANCES ..." Again, not the Ten Commandments that God Himself wrote!

Did I miss going back to Acts 15? Well, you look at Acts 21:17-25, and you say that this is about the Covenant of God?? Paul is telling of the meeting that went on there with the brethren at Jerusalem. ".. how many thousands of the Jews there are which believe; [and they are all zealous of the law:] WHICH ONE FRIEND!!?? Acts 15:1 & Acts 15:5 had NOTHING to do with the covenant of God. It says circumcism & the *LAW OF MOSES. This is was the problem of the 'thousands of Jews that were there, that were zealous of the law' They knew of Paul having been preaching about what? Notice:

Verse 21 of Acts 21. And see if you can 'ditch' the Eternal Covenant of God by this verse? "And they are informed of thee, that thou teaches [all Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses], saying that they [ought not to CIRCUMCISE THEIR CHILDREN], NEITHER [TO WALK AFTER THE *CUSTOMS]."

This was Acts 15 TIME FRIEND. Again, you tell Paul that he does away with the Covenant of God! These Jewish converts at Jerusalem had heard about Paul and his (their) problem with Moses law & circumcism, and (for more proof!) Paul even at this time GOOFED BIG TIME! Verse 22-24. And verse 25? Is about God's 10 Commandment law?? Hog/wash! (just the Sabbath Day is really what the devil is really after, huh! Dan. 7:25!)

Verse 25 of Acts 21 is all about Acts 15's Circumcism & the Law of Moses!!.

"As touching the Gentile's which believe, we have written and concluded that [they observe [NO SUCH THING,] (no such thing as what? the ONLY THING UNDER CONSIDERATION WAS THE LAW OF MOSES!!) save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication."

If you can find any 'hint' from this that the ten Commandment Everlasting Covenant is or was even attempted to be suggested at here, you are far the worse that that of just not being Born Again! See again Heb. 6:6.

 

[gingercat]

And if we die to the flesh then it has no effect on us.

And this is everyday struggle. We have to renew our mind daily.

 

[English]

John here with an old post from this site:

You still do not get it! (i hope that, that is all the problem is) Read the whole chapter in context! Verse 1 & verse 5 tells you what the meeting was all about!!! It was Not about the ETERNAL COVENANT OF GOD!!!

It states in Inspiration the Words of Moses LAW. Not the Godheads Royal Law! Now, what have you talked about above??? Burdens?? That is what God's Covenant is to you, a BURDEN???? (again, you need to have a Born Again MIND!)

And Necessary things?? READ ECCL. 12:13-14! This the WHOLE DUTY OF MAN! Not any Jew either. Man as in Mankind! Which Keep the Commandments of GOD, that is the CONCLUSION OF THE *WHOLE MATTER! FOR GOD WILL BRING EVERY WORK INTO JUDGEMENT!! Again, for mankind!

Then, meats, blood, and strangled... Where on earth do you see anything like this in the 10 Commandments that God Himself wrote!???????Then you conclude with faith & shipwreck! I suggest that you read Heb. 6:1-6 for this, and 2 Peter 2:19-22 & tell us how this was possible with your theology?

OK: Back into Acts 15. Check the center index verses! In Gal. 2:11-14 the issue was with Peter before them all.. over CIRCUMCISION. NOT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS or the SABBATH one that seems to be hated the most. by some here. Then come verses 16-18 with more of the works of the ceremonial law. Take note! There is no WORK in OBEDIENCE OF THE ETERNAL COVENANT!! Christ say that "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS". That is not BONDAGE WHEN ONES LOVES CHRIST! It is only BONDAGE TO THEM THAT HAVE NOT BEEN BORN AGAIN!! Gal. 3:10 CALL'S IT THE "BOOK OF THE LAW". Again Moses law was written in a book by him & placed in the side of the Ark, not INSIDE where the eternal Covenant of the Godhead was kept. Deut. 31:9 & verses 24-26.

Then we see the Word of bondage, begardly elements and , where unto how ye turn again to the weak and beggarly elements.. Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you'. Gal. 4:9-10 in part. (you can tell God how you can get His eternal Covenant of Heb. 13:20 wound up in that???) Then in Gal. 4:1-4 again we see NOTHING ABOUT THE ETERNAL COVENANT OF THE **GODHEAD!! [CIRCUMCISM]!! Circumcism is again the issue that Paul went up to Jerusalem for in the first place and about the law of Moses is what Inspiration documented!!

Now over in Ephesians 2:13-15 we see the law Moses pointed to CHRIST. (Even Gal. 3:19 told why it was added) Notice verse 15 of Eph. 2, it says "Having abolished the law of commandments contained in ORDINANCES ..." Again, not the Ten Commandments that God Himself wrote!

Did I miss going back to Acts 15? Well, you look at Acts 21:17-25, and you say that this is about the Covenant of God?? Paul is telling of the meeting that went on there with the brethren at Jerusalem. ".. how many thousands of the Jews there are which believe; [and they are all zealous of the law:] WHICH ONE FRIEND!!?? Acts 15:1 & Acts 15:5 had NOTHING to do with the covenant of God. It says circumcism & the *LAW OF MOSES. This is was the problem of the 'thousands of Jews that were there, that were zealous of the law' They knew of Paul having been preaching about what? Notice:

Verse 21 of Acts 21. And see if you can 'ditch' the Eternal Covenant of God by this verse? "And they are informed of thee, that thou teaches [all Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses], saying that they [ought not to CIRCUMCISE THEIR CHILDREN], NEITHER [TO WALK AFTER THE *CUSTOMS]."

This was Acts 15 TIME FRIEND. Again, you tell Paul that he does away with the Covenant of God! These Jewish converts at Jerusalem had heard about Paul and his (their) problem with Moses law & circumcism, and (for more proof!) Paul even at this time GOOFED BIG TIME! Verse 22-24. And verse 25? Is about God's 10 Commandment law?? Hog/wash! (just the Sabbath Day is really what the devil is really after, huh! Dan. 7:25!)

Verse 25 of Acts 21 is all about Acts 15's Circumcism & the Law of Moses!!.

"As touching the Gentile's which believe, we have written and concluded that [they observe [NO SUCH THING,] (no such thing as what? the ONLY THING UNDER CONSIDERATION WAS THE LAW OF MOSES!!) save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication."

If you can find any 'hint' from this that the ten Commandment Everlasting Covenant is or was even attempted to be suggested at here, you are far the worse that that of just not being Born Again! See again Heb. 6:6.

What on EARTH are you ranting about? I find your post to be very odd. I did not say that you have to keep the law. However I presumed that you understood that the ten commandments are just as much a part of the law as the rest of it. Obviously you don't see the ten commandments as a part of the law of moses.

Let me just check this. The ten commandments were given to.. Moses.

 

[mutzrein]

And if we die to the flesh then it has no effect on us.

And this is everyday struggle. We have to renew our mind daily.

As Paul says, "I die daily"

 

[Jay T]

I think what is missing Jay T is that there seems to be a lack of understanding of what it means to walk in the Spirit.

Yes, the purpose of the Holy Spirit is conviction of sin in everyone...which means, breaking any one of the commandments.
The Law is spiritual, right ?
Therefore it is the Spirit's job to bring conviction to the person who breaks the Law of God.

 

[mutzrein]

I think what is missing Jay T is that there seems to be a lack of understanding of what it means to walk in the Spirit.

Yes, the purpose of the Holy Spirit is conviction of sin in everyone...which means, breaking any one of the commandments.
The Law is spiritual, right ?
Therefore it is the Spirit's job to bring conviction to the person who breaks the Law of God.

That is not what I meant by walking in the Spirit. By concentrating on the latter you have missed the former.

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[John the Baptist]

I personally moved my post to the Matt. 4:4 thread. This seemed a better place to put it seeing that a question was either asked, or just plain stated as fact, for who the Ten Commandments were given?

Quote:
What on EARTH are you ranting about? I find your post to be very odd. I did not say that you have to keep the law. However I presumed that you understood that the ten commandments are just as much a part of the law as the rest of it. Obviously you don't see the ten commandments as a part of the law of moses.

Let me just check this. The ten commandments were given to.. Moses.

 

[SputnikBoy]

I have studied the Master's Word for over 36 + years and never have read more than just ten Commandments in what He Himself personally wrote to us? And the Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 tell's me that this is the 'whole duty of man'.

You must also then be aware of leviticus and deuteronomy. Such things as, "you must not boil a kid in it's mother's milk" and all the other ceremonial cleansings and washings and everything else. All of these consist of what is called, "the law". Are you telling me you've been reading the bible for 36 years and you haven't read that?

If you insist on your ten commandments (the law of moses) then you have evidently missed this scripture:

Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Please note! There are things that you cannot be justified of in keeping the law of moses according to scripture.

ALL of the Ten Commandments are as applicable to us today as they were when they were given. Why there are those who continue to want them abolished amazes me. One cannot believe in God unless they keep the first 4 commands and one cannot love neighbor as self unless commands 5 to 10 are adhered to. Why would anyone WANT the commandments done away with anyway?

 

[mutzrein]

ALL of the Ten Commandments are as applicable to us today as they were when they were given. Why there are those who continue to want them abolished amazes me. One cannot believe in God unless they keep the first 4 commands and one cannot love neighbor as self unless commands 5 to 10 are adhered to. Why would anyone WANT the commandments done away with anyway?

Because Christ was the fulfilment of the covenant given to Abraham which preceded the law. The law was only set in place until Christ should come.

And besides that, if the Jews to whom the law was given were unable to keep the law, what hope would a gentile like me have? None.
There is righteousness in Christ alone – not by keeping the law.

 

[Georges]

ALL of the Ten Commandments are as applicable to us today as they were when they were given. Why there are those who continue to want them abolished amazes me. One cannot believe in God unless they keep the first 4 commands and one cannot love neighbor as self unless commands 5 to 10 are adhered to. Why would anyone WANT the commandments done away with anyway?

Because Christ was the fulfilment of the covenant given to Abraham which preceded the law. The law was only set in place until Christ should come.

And besides that, if the Jews to whom the law was given were unable to keep the law, what hope would a gentile like me have? None.
There is righteousness in Christ alone – not by keeping the law.

Can't discount that the Law "Will" be observed and taught by Christ during the Messianic Millennium. The bulk of OT prophecy indicates this. So how can it have passed away, or have already been fulfilled by Christ?

The answer.......It hasn't been fulfilled completely by Christ at this time...This will not happen (completion) until the end of the Messianic Kingdom period.

 

[gingercat]

The answer.......It hasn't been fulfilled completely by Christ at this time...This will not happen (completion) until the end of the Messianic Kingdom period.

excellent point George. Jesus' mission for us is done but we still have to accept Him and follow Him for completion.

 

[Georges]

The answer.......It hasn't been fulfilled completely by Christ at this time...This will not happen (completion) until the end of the Messianic Kingdom period.

excellent point George. Jesus' mission for us is done but we still have to accept Him and follow Him for completion.

How do we accept and follow him? That's easy, well theoretically anyway, we accept him and follow him by trying to copy his example....

What was that? Jesus loved God and man in that he obeyed Torah. We should do the same as it applies to believing Gentiles....

 

[mutzrein]

The answer.......It hasn't been fulfilled completely by Christ at this time...This will not happen (completion) until the end of the Messianic Kingdom period.

excellent point George. Jesus' mission for us is done but we still have to accept Him and follow Him for completion.

How do we accept and follow him? That's easy, well theoretically anyway, we accept him and follow him by trying to copy his example....

What was that? Jesus loved God and man in that he obeyed Torah. We should do the same as it applies to believing Gentiles....

Sorry Georges. I can't go along with this element of what you say. But don't let me dissuade you from what you believe is right for you before God.

I must live my life 'as it were' in Christ. I am part of the vine. And because I am in Christ (the vine) I bring forth the fruit of the vine. I don't do things to emulate fruit. It is fruit. I don't do things BECAUSE they are the right things to do. I do them because it is natural for me to do them. They are a natural consequence of being in Christ.

 

[SputnikBoy]

So, in other words, you keep the commands of God as a consequence of belief in Jesus. So what are we arguing about then?

 

[mutzrein]

So, in other words, you keep the commands of God as a consequence of belief in Jesus. So what are we arguing about then?

No, not in the sense that you are stating it I believe. For as long as I can remember I have believed in Jesus. But it wasn't until I was made a son of God and grew in faith that I understood what it means to be obedient to the Father.

Jesus said, "Everything I have learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last."

To remain in the vine, there are two absolute criteria:
Firstly: To acknowledge and grow in the righteousness that comes through faith in Christ Jesus to all who believe, and accept that there is no other justification before God other than that which has been freely given by grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Secondly: Jesus said, "if you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love."

Now if Jesus required for us to obey his commands, just as he obeyed the commands of his Father, we need to understand how Jesus received the commands of the Father, for it was certainly not through the written code. Rather, the communication between Jesus and the Father was that of the Spirit, being the Spirit of God, the Spirit by which Jesus was born.

And it is by this one and same Spirit that we receive the birth of our spirit, being the baptism of the Holy Spirit. But that is another story isn't it.

 

[John the Baptist]

[quote="mutzrein] ...
Now if Jesus required for us to obey his commands, just as he obeyed the commands of his Father, we need to understand how Jesus received the commands of the Father, for it was certainly not through the written code. Rather, the communication between Jesus and the Father was that of the Spirit, being the Spirit of God, the Spirit by which Jesus was born.
And it is by this one and same Spirit that we receive the birth of our spirit, being the baptism of the Holy Spirit. But that is another story isn't it.

***
John here: What does Matthew 4:4 mean to you? And 2 Timothy 3:16??
Surely The Everlasting Gospel is Christ's DOCTRINE, or the 'Doctrine of Christ'. 2 John 1:9 And are you saying also that Christ did not come to MAGNIFY the Eternal Covenant?? Isaiah 42:21? Eternal Covenant is seen in the 'WORD', see Hebrews 13:20 Who do you think 'Inspired' the writings of the Word of God if not the Holy Spirit???

And the highlighted part of your post by me, is saying that Christ did not live as the First Adam as a man, and needed nothing from His 'Epistle' Eternal Covenant? 2 Corinthians 3:3

Anyway: It is hard for 'us' to get our points of understanding across. I think the reason for this has a lot to do with the past living ones writings, who were sincere & still living in error. (some still living) We read their works & go by their understanding.
We can be found in Romans 8:1 also, yet, when we see the 'mistake' of our ways, we are then again 'open sinners' and back under the Law if the way is not corrected. 1 John 3:4 Read Hosea 4:6 for how we are to learn! (notice the rejected warning)

And by the way, (back to your thought again) who INSPIRED this Passage, and whose Word is it??