understanding 666

[Theofilus]

Dear jasoncran,
Me? Would you have advocated a revolution in 1776? That is what I was referring to. Our government is here, not because of king George III, but because of an American revolution against his rule. On what Biblical basis does one either support the rule of King George III of England, or the rule of the American people and of George Washington as US President? The Scripture is silent on these matters. It just says to obey the rulers (Romans 13). It neither forbids nor advocates revolution. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

I have to disagree with you regarding the silence of Scripture concernig revolution. Or maybe you can explain to me how you can take part in a revolution, while at the same time obeying the Bibles command to obey civil authorities?

 

[jasoncran]

Dear Jasoncran, I don't think the USA will outlaw any form of Christianity, it just may tend toward Reconstructionism. This would probably not succeed, as most Christians in America are not followers of Rousas John Rushdoony and people like him. Such people, if they got into the U.S. Presidency, the Congress, and the Supreme Court, would outlaw all forms of Christianity not agreeing with Reformed (Presbyterian/Calvinist) Christianity. Go figure. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

i do, look at the gay rights movement here and the laws that basically force christians to marry gays or be loose that tax exemption. in mass and other states that have gay marriages one cant be true to ones conscience and marry gays and that is what they ask you to do.

by that thinking should we rise up and also attack the govt for legal murder of the unborn after is that not a good enough reason.

the problem with an inserecction is war is ugly and once started where is christ in it?

is it in self-defense of others?
is it for money
is it for the right to live free?

when you look at the revolutionary war they opressed so much that one had no choice but to act that way. but that only after yrs and yrs of peaceful request

i am no pacifists and i have been to war. but to say that we christians should overthrow goverments isnt always a good idea.

i see why the founders did it but to do so now or in situation?

i dont know the answer. and should said missionaries then conquer the muslim nation so that they can be free to be a christian nation?

yes if they are attacking another nation and wont listen to peaceful solutions or there is a holocaust, but if the muslim nation is not attacking other nations but is minding its own business? what then?

 

[Elijah674]

I have to disagree with you regarding the silence of Scripture concernig revolution. Or maybe you can explain to me how you can take part in a revolution, while at the same time obeying the Bibles command to obey civil authorities?

You are using Rom. 13? There are two tables to the Law of God. Jesus taught for Ceasar to stay out of His First Table of Law, that OF WORSHIPING HIM! Read the chapter & you will find what God [ONLY] gave to Caesar. (see Acts 5:27-29 for where Church + State VIOLATES GOD's Word!)

666 will be satan's twist of FORCE compiling false WORSHIP against God. Pertaining to the First GREAT Commandment of Worship. His 7th Day Sabbath.

--Elijah

 

[Scotth1960]

I have to disagree with you regarding the silence of Scripture concernig revolution. Or maybe you can explain to me how you can take part in a revolution, while at the same time obeying the Bibles command to obey civil authorities?

Dear Theofilus, You make an error regarding my intention; I am not supporting revolution. But if we support our US government, we must justify the US war of independence from Great Britain, for we are all here because of a revolution against obedience to King George III of England. Does the Bible justify obedience to an immoral, tyrannical leader? Well, the early Church did not try to overthrow Caesar, and Caesar had many Christians killed. Then Constantine came along and many things changed. Christians were given rights to freely practice faith without persecution for the same time. I do not know what the right answer to this is, but I am advocating support of our American nation. But to do so comes from a strict disobedience to the King of England. In Erie PA Scott H.

 

[Theofilus]

Dear Theofilus, You make an error regarding my intention; I am not supporting revolution. But if we support our US government, we must justify the US war of independence from Great Britain, for we are all here because of a revolution against obedience to King George III of England.

King Solomon was a great man. He was the wisest man of his time, and some say of all time. He would not have been born if David had not commited adultery with Bathsheba and then had her husband killed so he could marry her. Does that mean that we should justify David's actions? The Bible doesn't justify them. (Yes, I know David's first child died and that Solomon was born after he and Bathsheba were married, but Solomon would never have been born if David hadn't had Uriah killed.)

We all live with the results of others' actions. Sometimes those actions were wrong, but we don't have to justify them, even though we may profit from them, just as King Solomon profited from his father's adultery and murder. Like it or not, those that lead and took part in the American revolution were both disobeying God and committing treason against their lawful king. But you don't have to justify their actions. You just have to obey God and submit to the current authority. You aren't responsible for what someone did over 200 years ago, even though you profit from it today.

 

[Scotth1960]

You are using Rom. 13? There are two tables to the Law of God. Jesus taught for Ceasar to stay out of His First Table of Law, that OF WORSHIPING HIM! Read the chapter & you will find what God [ONLY] gave to Caesar. (see Acts 5:27-29 for where Church + State VIOLATES GOD's Word!)

666 will be satan's twist of FORCE compiling false WORSHIP against God. Pertaining to the First GREAT Commandment of Worship. His 7th Day Sabbath.

--Elijah

Dear Elijah, "His 7th Day Sabbath". That sounds to me like Seventh-day Adventist propaganda. Mrs. Ellen G. White is a prove false prophetess. No Christian is required to keep the details of the law of Moses; all of the Law is fulfilled in Christ, and Colossians says no Christian should be judged in anything in the matter of sabbaths and new moons. These are but a shadow of Christ. This is a Jewish ordinance that is passed away in Christ. As it is, the Church still honors the Sabbath, but does not make it a day of obligation. The Church met on Sundays in the book of Acts. When I am in church, as seldom as that is in these days, it is usually a Sunday. But there are Saturday night vespers in our local parish. I usually wait until the weather is better to go to church. It is cold and nasty here in Erie in the winters. In Erie Scott H.

 

[jasoncran]

theo, and theo alone read thomas paines the common sense and understand the thoughts of them that lived then.

i cant stand by and watch my family be massacered by the redcoats if i lived then or any modern version.

it maybe wrong but after some thought i cant.

but that is another topic. ironically said peresecution of the american and european church maybe the best thing as we would god forbid actually want to serve the lord then and wouldnt be so distracted.

 

[Scotth1960]

666?

The Two Babylons

The Two Babylons--Alexander Hislop

turnorburn

Friend, Recommended reading.

Beast of Revelation

Beast of Revelation


God save us all.

In Erie Scott H.

 

[Enveida]

In understanding author intent of 666; I think it important to understand apocalyptic literature was a literary genre to redress dilemmas, and in this and as in every case their current dilemmas. The reference of 666, and just as with the early discoveries of NT texts having the number as 616, was symbolism for Nero. We have to remember this was a high context society where along with the rather apparent clues in the Apocalypse of John itself, it described he whom they all would have been familiar with especially given their experiences with Nero.

Interesting that you mention this point (616). The Oxyrhynchus Papyri (4499/P115) records the number of the beast as 616 on one part of the papyrus and 665 on another.

John recorded exactly what he saw, and he wrote it in Greek (not Latin) so we should be able to work out the number of the beast from the relevant Greek figures.

Nero was a type of antichrist and the impact he had was limited. The final beast's impact will be global.

 

[precepts]

“[FONT=Georgia, serif]The thing that has been, it is that[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.†(Ecc 1:9) [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]With respect to God's chosen people, natural Israel, and the children of God, spiritual Israel, what relevance does this verse have for us today? As we know, “...all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the age are come...†(1Cor 10:11)[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]We see, at the time of the Lord Jesus' first advent, that the leaders of God's chosen people, therefore also the people they led, were in total darkness. The question then arises, “Why?â€[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Today the “church†inexorably has covenant with secular government, has lain down with a beast. We must have our business licenses, or tax exempt numbers and the myriad of NAMES which we have given ourselves have to be “registered in the beast.†This can be seen in, “...a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy...†as found in Revelation 17:3.

[/FONT] [FONT=Georgia, serif]We can debate, we can suppose, we can conjecture but beloved children of God it is, in the end, only the Truth that will mean anything. Therefore we are exhorted of the Lord to, “...Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues...†(Rev 18:4) and the only way we can do that is if we know who, or what SHE IS.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Verse 18 - [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]is[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Six hundred threescore [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]and[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] six[/FONT]

“[FONT=Georgia, serif]...HERE IS WISDOM...â€[/FONT]

1. [FONT=Georgia, serif]The fourth, of the earth/earthy, manifestation of the Church, the Church in Thyatira, which was revealed as “...that man of sin...the son of destruction...†(2Thes 2:3) when it took its seat in Rome in 538 A.D. This one is the First manifestation of the Church which has an unholy union with secular government, a beast. And it came forth from the carnal mind of MAN.[/FONT]
2. [FONT=Georgia, serif]In 1054 A.D. the Greek Orthodox Church was birthed out of this Great Harlot. This is the Second manifestation of the Church, also having union with government. And it too came forth from the carnal mind of MAN.[/FONT]
3. [FONT=Georgia, serif]In 1517 A.D. Protestantism is birthed out of the Great Harlot. This one had life for a moment in time, and then is declared by the Lord to, “...have a name that you live, and are dead...†(Rev 3:1) The moment it joined together with government it died, and became the Third manifestation of the Church which was brought forth from the carnal mind of MAN[/FONT]

“[FONT=Georgia, serif]...And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the Last Adam was made a Life giving Spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the Second Man is the Lord from heaven...†(1Cor 15:45-47) God only sees the first Adam and the Last Adam: the first man and the Second Man in His view of things. The first man has a body and the Second Man has a body: everyone upon the earth is a member of one or the other. And, as we know, God's number for MAN is SIX, as man was formed on the sixth day: this is Adam's number, this is “...THE NUMBER OF A MAN..!â€[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Therefore, we have the First Church system, which was from the mind of earthy man: SIX. The [/FONT] [FONT=Georgia, serif]Second Church system, which also proceeded from the mind of earthy man: SIX. And the Third[/FONT] [FONT=Georgia, serif]Church system, and it too came from the earthy mind of man: SIX.[/FONT]

“[FONT=Georgia, serif]...HERE IS WISDOM...â€

We have seen THREE religious systems which have come forth from[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] the [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]earthy[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] mind [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]OF MAN[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]. Therefore: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]SIX SIX SIX[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]. This [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]IS[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] the [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]mark of the beast[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif].[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]This subject is so VAST and the only way to see it clearly is to first get rid of the mark. [/FONT]

sdktlk 22:2-34

Your contradicting the bible to hide the truth. It's a historical and biblical fact that Rome is the city built on 7 of 10 hills and is the kingdom that conquered Greece. It's the horns of Rome, 10/11 kings, of which "the Beast" is the 8th.

 

[reba]

But strange as it may seem, the City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles. In the Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer, an 8th century midrashic narrative (section 10), the writer mentioned without commentary (showing that the understanding was well known and required no defense) that "Jerusalem is situated on seven hills" (recorded in The Book of Legends, edited by Bialik and Ravnitzky, p. 371, paragraph 111). And, so it was. Those "seven hills" are easy to identify.

 

[Elijah674]

You are using Rom. 13? There are two tables to the Law of God. Jesus taught for Ceasar to stay out of His First Table of Law, that OF WORSHIPING HIM! Read the chapter & you will find what God [ONLY] gave to Caesar. (see Acts 5:27-29 for where Church + State VIOLATES GOD's Word!)

666 will be satan's twist of FORCE compiling false WORSHIP against God. Pertaining to the First GREAT Commandment of Worship. His 7th Day Sabbath.

--Elijah

Me again:
We see already these of Rev.17:1-5 all in one 'rome spiritual bed together' at present, keeping sun worship of Eze. 8:16-18 with even... 'the branch to the nose', so who cares what they force by law which they already do?? See Christ's UNITY of these ones in Matt. 6:24!

 

[precepts]

But strange as it may seem, the City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles. In the Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer, an 8th century midrashic narrative (section 10), the writer mentioned without commentary (showing that the understanding was well known and required no defense) that "Jerusalem is situated on seven hills" (recorded in The Book of Legends, edited by Bialik and Ravnitzky, p. 371, paragraph 111). And, so it was. Those "seven hills" are easy to identify.

References please, or should I say you need more references than that?

 

[reba]

I knew that Jerusalem was built on seven hills at least 50 years ago. I just found the quickest piece of info i could copy and paste i wil look up some more and post when i find it.

 

[precepts]

I knew that Jerusalem was built on seven hills at least 50 years ago. I just found the quickest piece of info i could copy and paste i wil look up some more and post when i find it.

Please.

 

[reba]

The names of the hills..

Zion, Moriah, Olives, Scopus, Golgotha, Moshe, Hertzl

I have been looking for a map but cant find one BUT


Some one in this forum ( i believe) has a map one of those odd looking old maps showing the hills...

 

[reba]

I went and found the map and stole part Vic's post i do hope that is not against tos






​

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

All scripture is KJV unless stated otherwise. The smiley in my avatar is a born again Jedi smiley fighting against the
​

 

[Sam21]

King Solomon was a great man. He was the wisest man of his time, and some say of all time. He would not have been born if David had not commited adultery with Bathsheba and then had her husband killed so he could marry her. Does that mean that we should justify David's actions? The Bible doesn't justify them. (Yes, I know David's first child died and that Solomon was born after he and Bathsheba were married, but Solomon would never have been born if David hadn't had Uriah killed.)

We all live with the results of others' actions. Sometimes those actions were wrong, but we don't have to justify them, even though we may profit from them, just as King Solomon profited from his father's adultery and murder. Like it or not, those that lead and took part in the American revolution were both disobeying God and committing treason against their lawful king. But you don't have to justify their actions. You just have to obey God and submit to the current authority. You aren't responsible for what someone did over 200 years ago, even though you profit from it today.

Because the king of England claimed ownership of the colonies in America does not mean that he owned that land or those people. A small group from Spain landed in southern North America and after a hike through the land claimed that it then belonged to Spain. When that claim was made there were more Indians living in that part of American then were people in Spain. My point, just because some Europeans landed in this country and made claims of ownership does not mean that they were the actual owers of it. Actually the land ended up with those who were stronger...end of story. England made a claim of ownership of the colonies but that claim was contested and found not to be true because they lacked the power to inforce their claim. That is the story of the world. If we want to be morale about it then the Americas should be given back to the Indian people, if no one wants to do that then let us not moralize about the USA doing something wrong to England.

 

[jasoncran]

let's not get into another debate that isnt on the topic of the mark of the beast or understanding the number of the beast.

 

[precepts]

I went and found the map and stole part Vic's post i do hope that is not against tos






​

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

All scripture is KJV unless stated otherwise. The smiley in my avatar is a born again Jedi smiley fighting against the
​

I can't tell from the map but is there a wall surround the 7 mountains? I'm asking because Rome had a wall surrounding her 10 hills, which by the way, your map doesn't show. The city is suppose to be built on 7 0f 10 hills.