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Understanding Salvation.

It a product of God's nature flowing through us as the result of Faithing, or a continually surrendered life.

Faith is what we receive from God when He speaks to us.


When we respond in obedience, we receive the intended divine result.


And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour.
Matthew 9:20-22


The woman with the issue responded in obedience, pressing forward and... “touched the hem of His garment. For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.”



JLB
 
interpretation or explanation you say it one way jlb another .but yet both see it different

Actually, I see his explanations as valid, although I explain it differently.



JLB
 
Faith is what we receive from God when He speaks to us.


When we respond in obedience, we receive the intended divine result.


And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour.
Matthew 9:20-22


The woman with the issue responded in obedience, pressing forward and... “touched the hem of His garment. For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.”



JLB

Your just repeating yourself. I'm not going to re- respond to the repetition I've already addressed.
 
that was my point interpretation or explanation the difference the wording

The difference is the object of Faith.

The believe and recieve crowd uses to occasion ( God's word and His promises) to faithe, in place of the object of Faith, God Himself a real living person.
 
The difference is the object of Faith.

The believe and recieve crowd uses to occasion ( God's word and His promises) to faithe, in place of the object of Faith, God Himself a real living person.
so you have the correct word .. correct .i like a good discussion . when every thing turns to correction .it then is time to back off before i get blunt
 
so you have the correct word .. correct .i like a good discussion . when every thing turns to correction .it then is time to back off before i get blunt


Correcting my understanding would be nicer. I'm always looking to know Christ better.
 
Last edited:
Philippians 2:12–13 (ESV)

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
i like this comment on this verse
“Therefore”
There is an old rule of thumb that says: anytime you see the word “therefore,” you need to look and see what came BEFORE. The word, “Therefore” ties what Paul is about to say to what he just finished saying. So, in order to understand Philippians 2:12, you MUST understand what precedes that verse.
Paul was saying he hoped to be released from prison and come to Philippi again (Philippians 1:26). He began urging them in verse 27 to let their “manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ.” Then, at length, Paul explained the “manner of life” that was “worthy of the gospel of Christ.” He told the Philippians to be unified, “standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel” (1:27), in spite of the suffering they must endure. He continued to encourage them to be “of the same mind,” have “the same love,” and to be “in full accord and of one mind” (Philippians 2:2).
Then, for the next nine verses, Paul continued to tell them that based on who Jesus is and what Jesus did at the cross, they should, “Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than [themselves]” (Philippians 2:3). This is the context of Philippians 2:12-13. Paul is urging the Philippians to be (especially in his absence) selflessly united.
If you miss that, you will miss the entire point of what Paul is saying.
“Work Out”
The Greek word translated, “work out” means to work in order to bring something to completion or fulfillment.
Paul was telling them to strive to bring their salvation to its complete fulfillment in their lives. Essentially, he was reiterating what he said in Philippians 1:27, “Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ…” Or, as he worded it to the Christians in Ephesus, “Walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called” (Ephesians 4:1). Interestingly, the context in all of these passages is Christian unity.
So in other words, salvation is not worked out in our lives – it has not been completed in us – until we are of one mind and spirit with our brothers and sisters in Christ. When there is “grumbling or disputing” (2:14) in the church, that’s when we need this admonishment to work out our salvation. That’s when we need to be reminded, “if there is any encouragement in Christ,” then be “of the same mind” (2:1-2).
“Your Own”
Sometimes we emphasize the “your own” of this passage, as if Paul was saying this is something each person must do on his or her own. That’s ironic, because the context is about Christian unity. Furthermore, all of the verbs in this passage are plural, not singular. Paul is saying this to a group, not to an individual. He is telling them they have to do this on “their own,” because he is not there to help them.
So, when we say to someone, “Well, you have to work out your own salvation and I have to work out mine,” we are saying something COMPLETELY different than Paul was saying. WE work out OUR salvation collectively, by being of one mind and humbly submitting to one another. This is not something that can be done individually, it can only be done in the context of a church family.
“With Fear and Trembling”
When we understand that the context is about being transformed by the gospel so that we are at one with our Christian family, then it is very easy to understand how the phrase, “with fear and trembling” fits with what Paul wrote to other churches. In Ephesians 5:21, he wrote that we submit to one another, “out of reverence for Christ.”
Because we revere Christ, because we are in awe of who He is and what He has done, because we fear disappointing Him, because we desperately want to live up to our calling as children of God, we submit to one another. We prefer one another. We do not insist on our own way. Reverence for Christ looks like selfless unity in the church.
“God Who Works in You”
Finally, in verse 13, Paul wrote that God was working in them, “both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” Through the encouragement that is in Christ, the comfort from His love, and the participation in the Spirit, the Philippians were being transformed from the inside out. God was working in them to change their affections and their manner of life.
When we are buried with Jesus in baptism, the Spirit of God and the truth of the Gospel go to work on our hearts and our lives to transform us. But we cannot be passive in this transformation. We must actively imitate the humility of Christ. We must become like Him. We must surrender to Him. We must work hard to be completed.
Christ is working in us, in order to present the church to Himself “in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing” (Ephesians 5:27).
What Salvation Looks Like
The New Testament consistently teaches that salvation looks like saved people loving each other with a selfless love. The bottom line is, if we are not living that out, then we are not saved people. Consider 1 John 3:14-18:
We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
Let us together work out our salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in us, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
please note our each one of us
 
Philippians 2:12–13 (ESV)

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
i like this comment on this verse
“Therefore”
There is an old rule of thumb that says: anytime you see the word “therefore,” you need to look and see what came BEFORE. The word, “Therefore” ties what Paul is about to say to what he just finished saying. So, in order to understand Philippians 2:12, you MUST understand what precedes that verse.
Paul was saying he hoped to be released from prison and come to Philippi again (Philippians 1:26). He began urging them in verse 27 to let their “manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ.” Then, at length, Paul explained the “manner of life” that was “worthy of the gospel of Christ.” He told the Philippians to be unified, “standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel” (1:27), in spite of the suffering they must endure. He continued to encourage them to be “of the same mind,” have “the same love,” and to be “in full accord and of one mind” (Philippians 2:2).
Then, for the next nine verses, Paul continued to tell them that based on who Jesus is and what Jesus did at the cross, they should, “Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than [themselves]” (Philippians 2:3). This is the context of Philippians 2:12-13. Paul is urging the Philippians to be (especially in his absence) selflessly united.
If you miss that, you will miss the entire point of what Paul is saying.
“Work Out”
The Greek word translated, “work out” means to work in order to bring something to completion or fulfillment.
Paul was telling them to strive to bring their salvation to its complete fulfillment in their lives. Essentially, he was reiterating what he said in Philippians 1:27, “Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ…” Or, as he worded it to the Christians in Ephesus, “Walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called” (Ephesians 4:1). Interestingly, the context in all of these passages is Christian unity.
So in other words, salvation is not worked out in our lives – it has not been completed in us – until we are of one mind and spirit with our brothers and sisters in Christ. When there is “grumbling or disputing” (2:14) in the church, that’s when we need this admonishment to work out our salvation. That’s when we need to be reminded, “if there is any encouragement in Christ,” then be “of the same mind” (2:1-2).
“Your Own”
Sometimes we emphasize the “your own” of this passage, as if Paul was saying this is something each person must do on his or her own. That’s ironic, because the context is about Christian unity. Furthermore, all of the verbs in this passage are plural, not singular. Paul is saying this to a group, not to an individual. He is telling them they have to do this on “their own,” because he is not there to help them.
So, when we say to someone, “Well, you have to work out your own salvation and I have to work out mine,” we are saying something COMPLETELY different than Paul was saying. WE work out OUR salvation collectively, by being of one mind and humbly submitting to one another. This is not something that can be done individually, it can only be done in the context of a church family.
“With Fear and Trembling”
When we understand that the context is about being transformed by the gospel so that we are at one with our Christian family, then it is very easy to understand how the phrase, “with fear and trembling” fits with what Paul wrote to other churches. In Ephesians 5:21, he wrote that we submit to one another, “out of reverence for Christ.”
Because we revere Christ, because we are in awe of who He is and what He has done, because we fear disappointing Him, because we desperately want to live up to our calling as children of God, we submit to one another. We prefer one another. We do not insist on our own way. Reverence for Christ looks like selfless unity in the church.
“God Who Works in You”
Finally, in verse 13, Paul wrote that God was working in them, “both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” Through the encouragement that is in Christ, the comfort from His love, and the participation in the Spirit, the Philippians were being transformed from the inside out. God was working in them to change their affections and their manner of life.
When we are buried with Jesus in baptism, the Spirit of God and the truth of the Gospel go to work on our hearts and our lives to transform us. But we cannot be passive in this transformation. We must actively imitate the humility of Christ. We must become like Him. We must surrender to Him. We must work hard to be completed.
Christ is working in us, in order to present the church to Himself “in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing” (Ephesians 5:27).
What Salvation Looks Like
The New Testament consistently teaches that salvation looks like saved people loving each other with a selfless love. The bottom line is, if we are not living that out, then we are not saved people. Consider 1 John 3:14-18:

Let us together work out our salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in us, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
please note our each one of us

That's talking about those who have received the Spirit of Christ, making Christ, His word, and the promises in His word theirs to c!aim . This can only happen by beginning, maintaining, and completing a continually surrendered life. Rom. 8:9
 
That's talking about those who have received the Spirit of Christ, making Christ, His word, and the promises in His word theirs to c!aim . This can only happen by beginning, maintaining, and completing a continually surrendered life. Rom. 8:9
thank you for proving my point ..have a great night :erm :cross
 
Please keep replies directed towards the substance of what is being said, not the one saying it.

I'm sorry you see this as a personal attack on you as that was not my intent as I was only asking you a sincere question in order to understand where you are coming from in your understanding. What is so wrong in asking if you speak fluent Greek or just use a Greek lexicon as it is part of the substance of trying to understand what you say.
 
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I'm sorry you see this as a personal attack on you as that was not my intent as I was only asking you a sincere question in order to understand where you are coming from in your understanding. What is so wrong in asking if you speak fluent Greek or just use a Greek lexicon as it is part of the substance of trying to understand what you say.

I've posted my credentials more than once in different places. I'd rather talk about the topics I'm posting.

On a personal note, you've been misrepresenting me and what I've been sharing almost continually. I just don't talk to those who do that. I see that as one of the worst things s person can do to another.

I'm very forgiving if your interested in starting over.
As I'm trying to be less forceful in trying to get understandings from people.
 
Obedience is a product of God's nature flowing through us as the result of Faithing, or a continually surrendered life.

Faith and belief goes hand in hand when being obedient to God's commands. You can not have one without the other no matter what Reformed Theology teaches.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God of which by faith we believe in who Jesus says He is in whom saves those who are obedient to God's commands and statures.

I know you will not go read what this website offers in definitions, but maybe it will bring a light unto someone else.

classic.netbible.org - NETBIBLE: Strong4100
 
That's talking about those who have received the Spirit of Christ, making Christ, His word, and the promises in His word theirs to c!aim . This can only happen by beginning, maintaining, and completing a continually surrendered life. Rom. 8:9

Is that not what all who are in Christ and He in them are suppose to be doing!

As a Spiritually born again from above child of God indwelled with the Holy Spirit we have surrendered our life. We are risen with Christ from the old man (flesh) to the new inner man (Spirit) as we seek those things from above where Christ sits at the right hand of God. Christ is our faith through God's grace in whom we believe in and are obedient to His word which includes all of God's promises as we claim His word as being truth and life sustaining.

Faith, belief and obedience is what brings us in unity of the love as Christ loved us first.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (Read the whole Chapter)
 
Faith and belief goes hand in hand when being obedient to God's commands. You can not have one without the other no matter what Reformed Theology teaches.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God of which by faith we believe in who Jesus says He is in whom saves those who are obedient to God's commands and statures.

I know you will not go read what this website offers in definitions, but maybe it will bring a light unto someone else.

classic.netbible.org - NETBIBLE: Strong4100
[/QUOTE


Only one misrepresentation? But one is still to much.
 
I've posted my credentials more than once in different places. I'd rather talk about the topics I'm posting.

On a personal note, you've been misrepresenting me and what I've been sharing almost continually. I just don't talk to those who do that. I see that as one of the worst things s person can do to another.

I'm very forgiving if your interested in starting over.
As I'm trying to be less forceful in trying to get understandings from people.

Just because I do not agree with you and give scripture for what it already says does not mean I am misrepresenting you, but trying to discuss with you by using scripture which you do not want to use. This is not a "I'm right, your wrong" forum, but a forum where we walk in unity towards each other as we discuss the topics even if we do disagree at times. When one does not give their source, especially with scripture, then everything becomes speculation and one's own opinion for what they speak. You are never going to force anyone to believe you. Did Jesus teach by force while here on earth, no, He taught through love and compassion by speaking what God gave Him to speak and do.
 

Apparently you do not believe what has already been written and would rather follow a man's teaching and that is dangerous territory.
 
Just because I do not agree with you and give scripture for what it already says does not mean I am misrepresenting you, but trying to discuss with you by using scripture which you do not want to use. This is not a "I'm right, your wrong" forum, but a forum where we walk in unity towards each other as we discuss the topics even if we do disagree at times. When one does not give their source, especially with scripture, then everything becomes speculation and one's own opinion for what they speak. You are never going to force anyone to believe you. Did Jesus teach by force while here on earth, no, He taught through love and compassion by speaking what God gave Him to speak and do.

That's more like it, 5 misrepresentations.
 
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