Understanding the obedience of faith.

[Eternally-grateful]

Yes if someone says they have faith, but do not have works…

You did it again

Your not focusing on the correct part.

James did nto say they had faith, THEY DID They claimed they had faith. But the fact they did not love out what they said they trusted in proved they did not have faith to begin with.

You seem to have missed that part.

No. Your missing the part. your focused on works. not the fact James never said they had any faith at all

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
James 2:14

yes. What does it prophet if they say they have faith..

Nothing, if you do not have faith, Your dead. lost. without hope. even demons believe

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:15

It’s not that they are claiming to have faith, and don’t have it.

The truth the scripture is plainly teaching is the faith they have is dead, if they don’t have works.

Their faith, the received from God is dead, dormant, inactive and unable to save.

The “work” James is referring to as he brings us to his point is obedience; the obedience of faith.

Abraham, obeyed when God told him to sacrifice his son on the altar.



JLB

lol.. Yet you can sit there with a straight face and say your not teaching a works based salvation.

How many of these chatrooms are you going to spread this stuff too, Is one not enough?

 

[Eternally-grateful]

I never mentioned “works of faith” I mentioned the obedience of faith.

Obedience is works. if your doing works of obedience to earn salvation. it is called works of merit

Example:

At the preaching of the Gospel a person must obey the Gospel to be saved.

Yes.

Call out on the name of the lord and you will be saved.

period

Do you disagree?

With your works based gospel? yes

 

[JLB]

Obedience is works. if your doing works of obedience to earn salvation. it is called works of merit

So you believe “confessing with your mouth Jesus as Lord” a work?

 

[GodsGrace]

Obedience is works. if your doing works of obedience to earn salvation. it is called works of merit

Obedìence is works.
EG...
You've finally stated it !

So it follows that we are not required to obey God because it would mean that we are seeking salvation through our own merit.

All those verses that speak of obedience and doing good works should just be eliminated from the NT?

Yes.

Call out on the name of the lord and you will be saved.

period

With your works based gospel? yes

I'll just sit here in my living room...looking out at the mountains...
I'll just call on the name of the Lord all day long...
do NOTHING to further His Kingdom,,,
Nothing to help my family or maybe even others,,,
nothing of what Jesus COMMANDED us to do...
but I'll be saved anyway...
EVEN IF I DISOBEY GOD.

Yes. THIS is what new Christians need to hear.

 

[JLB]

Yes.

Call out on the name of the lord and you will be saved.

period

Agreed.

Believe in our heart that God raised Him from the dead, and confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Obedìence is works.

Obedience is works. if your doing works of obedience to earn salvation. it is called works of merit

its not like you to make deceptive posts. Leaving the rest of my post makes it appear I said somethign else.

EG...
You've finally stated it !

So it follows that we are not required to obey God because it would mean that we are seeking salvation through our own merit.

lol. Deceptive

All those verses that speak of obedience and doing good works should just be eliminated from the NT?



I'll just sit here in my living room...looking out at the mountains...
I'll just call on the name of the Lord all day long...
do NOTHING to further His Kingdom,,,
Nothing to help my family or maybe even others,,,
nothing of what Jesus COMMANDED us to do...
but I'll be saved anyway...
EVEN IF I DISOBEY GOD.

Yes. THIS is what new Christians need to hear.

Keep trying to earn salvation.

Or at the most. Stop being deceptive. I did not say what you claimed I said.

 

[GodsGrace]

its not like you to make deceptive posts. Leaving the rest of my post makes it appear I said somethign else.

And, in fact, I do not.
What is deceptive about my post to you?
I have your entire post in my reply.
Which part did Ieave out?
It is NOT my habit to do this.

Some do this because they wish to reply to only a PORTION of a member's post.
In any case, it is not really being deceptive or it would be banned from practice on this Forum.

lol. Deceptive

Keep trying to earn salvation.

Or at the most. Stop being deceptive. I did not say what you claimed I said.

Here is what YOU stated in post no. 42:
"Obedience is works. if your doing works of obedience to earn salvation. it is called works of merit"
EG....we OBEY the gospel message and believe in Jesus for our salvation.
Is this a work?

YOU said that obedience is a work if we're doing work to obtain salvation.
So is OBEDIENCE a work?

There are those that state that FAITH is a work.
Do you believe that faith is a work?

The MOMENT we come to realize that God exists,,,even before we give our life to Him....we MUST OBEY if we want to be saved.

If we do NOT OBEY,,,then we are rejecting God and will not be saved.

AND
you're telling me to keep trying to earn my salvation.
Which means that you don't even believe in works for sanctification!


NASB
Romans 1:5
5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,


1 John 3:7
7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;



1 John 3:22-24
22 and whatever * we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded * us.
24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

And, in fact, I do not.
What is deceptive about my post to you?

How can you expect to get any respect when you not only did it. But then you deny it

You cut the end of my post. Then made it appear to say we do not have to work at all.. You’re a liar.and I am flatly out calling you out.

I have your entire post in my reply.
Which part did Ieave out?
It is NOT my habit to do this.

Yet you did

Some do this because they wish to reply to only a PORTION of a member's post.

You did this to try to make me say somethign I said

I said we are bot saved by works of merti

You took away works of merit and made it appear I said no works period..

In any case, it is not really being deceptive or it would be banned from practice on this Forum.

I did not report it. Should I?

Here is what YOU stated in post no. 42:
"Obedience is works. if your doing works of obedience to earn salvation. it is called works of merit"
EG....we OBEY the gospel message and believe in Jesus for our salvation.
Is this a work?

YOU said that obedience is a work if we're doing work to obtain salvation.
So is OBEDIENCE a work?

There are those that state that FAITH is a work.
Do you believe that faith is a work?

IF WE ARE DoING IT TO EARN SALVATION.

If we are doing it out of gratitude FOR BEING SAVED. Then obedience is not a work.

The MOMENT we come to realize that God exists,,,even before we give our life to Him....we MUST OBEY if we want to be saved.

Yeah good luck with that. You better be perfect Thats Gods standard.

You mock God when you claim you can not be perfect. Yet still earn salvation

If we do NOT OBEY,,,then we are rejecting God and will not be saved.

I do not have to worry about this. Because I was saved by grace through faith not works. And have since been created to do good works for which I was designed.

AND
you're telling me to keep trying to earn my salvation.

Well you are.

Which means that you don't even believe in works for sanctification!

No. I teach sanctification works

YOU TEACH works to maintain salvation or salvation will be lost.

NASB
Romans 1:5
5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,


1 John 3:7
7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;



1 John 3:22-24
22 and whatever * we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded * us.
24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Keep on trying. You may get it one day.

You still commited a sin against me by misrepresenting what I said.

 

[Corinth77777]

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

The principle of the obedience of faith is found throughout the Bible, but has been often misunderstood by the people of God.


The entire book of Romans contextually framed with this principle or “law” of faith.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: Romans 1:3-5


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


Obedience is the operational principle by which faith is activated (made alive) and is able to function and bring about the intended divine result.


Basically the term “by faith” literally means God spoke to a person and they obeyed what they heard. We receive faith when God speaks to us; whether directly or indirectly as through someone He sends to preach the Gospel.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:16-17

• faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Example:

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

God spoke to, moved upon, inspired Noah to built the ark. Noah obeyed.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Hebrews 11:8

God spoke to, inspired, moved upon Abraham to get out of his father’s house, and to go to a land he had never been to. Abraham obeyed.


James teaches the same thing.


Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:17-21

The “work” or action Abraham did was to obey the Lord to offer his son Isaac on the altar.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26


Not the works of the law.
Not good works.
Not work that earns a wage.

The corresponding “work” (action) of obedience.


The obedience of faith.





JLB

There were some noted in Hebrews, who did not enter the promise land because they did not mix what they heard with faith. WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED OBEDIENCE OF FAITH....AND COULD ONE ALSO SAY : The Faith requires obedience?

 

[JLB]

There were some noted in Hebrews, who did not enter the promise land because they did not mix what they heard with faith. WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED OBEDIENCE OF FAITH....AND COULD ONE ALSO SAY : The Faith requires obedience?

Exactly. Faith requires obedience to be complete (perfect) and there “activated” or made alive.

Otherwise the faith we have received from God when He speaks to us remains dead; dormant or inactive because it’s incomplete.

Just as a body without a spirit is incomplete and therefore dead, so also faith without obedience, (the corresponding act of obedience) is dead.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works (obedience) is dead also. James 2:26

 

[Corinth77777]

Exactly. Faith requires obedience to be complete (perfect) and there “activated” or made alive.

Otherwise the faith we have received from God when He speaks to us remains dead; dormant or inactive because it’s incomplete.

Just as a body without a spirit is incomplete and therefore dead, so also faith without obedience, (the corresponding act of obedience) is dead.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works (obedience) is dead also. James 2:26

Thanks Sister

Exactly. Faith requires obedience to be complete (perfect) and there “activated” or made alive.

Otherwise the faith we have received from God when He speaks to us remains dead; dormant or inactive because it’s incomplete.

Just as a body without a spirit is incomplete and therefore dead, so also faith without obedience, (the corresponding act of obedience) is dead.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works (obedience) is dead also. James 2:26

Agree or disagree and share the criticism you may have with each part.

Would you agree with the statement:
We are saved from the penalty of sin,
the power of sin,
And will be saved from the presence of sin?

And if you do agree can you share what those would look like?

 

[JLB]

Would you agree with the statement:
We are saved from the penalty of sin,
the power of sin,
And will be saved from the presence of sin?

When we are resurrected from the dead we will be free from a body of sin.

So yes we will be saved from the presence of sin in our body.

This is called the salvation of our soul which we will receive at the end of our faith: as an end result of our faith in Christ for salvation.

receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 John 1:9