[_ Old Earth _] Universe shouldn't exist

[Barbarian]

ok barbarian...You didn't watch any of those videos, did you?

My experience is that if someone doesn't understand a video enough to summarize the salient facts therein, he probably doesn't know enough to say whether the video is sensible or moondust.

They took some protons or electrons, I forget which and had them (somewhere) and then inserted a strand of DNA into them.

That would be quite a trick, since a single atom (DNA has many thousands of atoms in even small strands) is something like 1/100,000 times the size of a proton.

The protons then began moving into an arrangement by the DNA...a reaction to the DNA. Then they took out the DNA and continued to observe them once the DNA was gone and they again began moving (back to the original configuration?) which took over 22 minutes for them to do so,. This proved that the protons knew of the presence of the DNA, or the lack of it.

This makes no sense at all. You can't put DNA into a proton.

I know I am not good at explaining this, I'm no scientist, lol. but they're on to this stuff and from what they said, it does prove the existence of God.

How does putting DNA into a proton (assuming you could somehow do it) prove God?

I know you're educated and can talk circles around me

I know a secret for appearing to be educated. Only talk about things you know.

but...in a nutshell, what are you trying to say? God does/doesn't exist?

I'm pointing out that science can neither verify nor deny God.

You seem to find fault with what most say, but to what end?

The truth matters. God is truth, after all. That should be good enough for you. If faith won't get you to Him, science won't be able to help you.

 

[jeff77]

I'm pointing out that science can neither verify nor deny God.

If this is the case why is there a need to include evolution in the Christian faith? Why not just go by what Genesis says about God creating the earth?

 

[agua.]

If this is the case why is there a need to include evolution in the Christian faith? Why not just go by what Genesis says about God creating the earth?

I think the opposite is the norm Jeff. A Christian will argue against evolution because they think it attacks faith. Genesis is written as witness that we have a God who is the Creator of everything and He alone is responsible; but the method of creation isn't said. I'm not sure why many Christians are challenged by the thought of evolution. Oh I neither accept the complete Darwinian evolution model nor reject it out of hand.

 

[Edward]

My experience is that if someone doesn't understand a video enough to summarize the salient facts therein, he probably doesn't know enough to say whether the video is sensible or moondust.



That would be quite a trick, since a single atom (DNA has many thousands of atoms in even small strands) is something like 1/100,000 times the size of a proton.



This makes no sense at all. You can't put DNA into a proton.



How does putting DNA into a proton (assuming you could somehow do it) prove God?



I know a secret for appearing to be educated. Only talk about things you know.



I'm pointing out that science can neither verify nor deny God.



The truth matters. God is truth, after all. That should be good enough for you. If faith won't get you to Him, science won't be able to help you.

Sounds like I made you mad. Well, c'mon man, you should be above that, he who professes to be so wise. Allright, look. i was doing a lot of stuff yesterday and today and jumping around in my studies and break (where I watch videos for fun and so forth) So I was going by memory and mixed up my terms a little ok? (I said protons and should have said Photons!) So take a deep breath and give a guy a break. I humbly apologize for mixing it up some and making you mad.

I watched the video again and took some notes so you wont have to get frustrated with the lame brained Ed, lol. To make it easier for you (and others) to understand I'll post some of it word for word (Courtesy Gatewaymessenger, copying ok, this info is at the last part of the video so no copyright is infringed upon.)

Anywho, you are incorrect sir, in your point that science can neither prove or deny the existence of God. They did it, though i doubt that you would believe it or receive it because of your uh, over-educated, condescending nature shall we say?

(Courtesy gatewaymessenger)
There are 4 primary attributes that describe what a God would be. If any one of these attributes are found in one force then we can continue on to see if God is real. These 4 attributes are 1.-Eternal. 2.-Omnipresent. 3.-Omnipotent. 4.-Omniscient. If we want to prove God exists, first we have to find one force that is Eternal. If an eternal force cannot be found, then God cannot be proven. If all 4 primary attributes are found in one force it would prove that God does exist.

Heisenberg came to the conclusion that quantum events cannot be predicted. All freed electrons behave as if they are being influenced by an outside variable or force, the Uncertainty Principle. In Signal travels farther and faster than light, by Malcolm W. Browne, a force was found connecting two freed electrons & proven to be eternal, was present within our time yet was not involved with the flow of our tiime. YES #1, Eternal force was found! the eternal force connects to all freed electrons. Every particle that releases energy connects to this eternal force. Everything beyond our solar system that is visible is made of stars, which all release freed electrons, light, radiation etc..This shows this force to also be, 2. Omnipresent, everywhere in the universe, simple enough.

In experiments by Russian scientists they found at http://www.quantumbalancing.com/news/russian_dna.htm
that laser photons knew when a DNA molecule was added into the vacuum. The photons/electrons collected around the DNA strand and began to change the order of the DNA, changing it into what it desired (evolution?). After the DNA was removed and the laser turned off the excess photons remained in the position resembling the DNA for over 22 minutes. The easiest to prove this force to be is 3.-Omnipotent, all powerful. By our own eyes we see everything to be so complex, complex environments, complex galaxies, and the complexity of nature and life itself. If this force created everything from nothing, seeing energy cannot be created, shows this force to be omnipotent. Visual evidence is seen in the distance of stars and galaxies across this universe.

According to the first law of thermodynamics energy cannot be created or destroyed. Then where did all the energy in our universe come from? Does it have something to do with this same force being timeless? This force was was able to use freed electrons to manipulate DNA, showing what this force can do on a tiny scale. What can this force do to freed electrons on a large scale? Is the universe expanding from dark matter or this eternal force? Since the universe is full of freed electrons, I can only imagine what this force could do if it used all the freed electrons to work as one single entity. This data implies that all freed electrons in combination or as a collective to be 3.-Omnipotent, all powerful.

i said implies because this was never observed but is evident from the size & distance of galaxies that can be seen across this universe.
Continued...

 

[Edward]

Continued...

Plus, in the double slit experiment, light, a freed electron, showed it was observant of it's surroundings. It knew when it was being watched and when it was not. it showed a simple means of intelligence by reacting to visual stimuli.

The first bit of evidence that showed this force to be 4.-Omniscient.

Will edit in more soon

 

[agua.]

Continued...

Plus, in the double slit experiment, light, a freed electron, showed it was observant of it's surroundings. It knew when it was being watched and when it was not. it showed a simple means of intelligence by reacting to visual stimuli.

The first bit of evidence that showed this force to be 4.-Omniscient.

Will edit in more soon

I think the double slit experiment doesn't show cognizance of particles Ed. It's a good youtube but please don't think particles have cognizance else you may enter Gaia territory.

 

[Edward]

Continued...

In the STI "Self Thinking Interface" device created by Physicist Roger R. Vogelsang in the early 1970's, PROVED that there is ultimate knowledge in the force which connects to all freed electrons. This force knows everything, AKA, 4.-Omniscient. God is real and scientific experiments proved it. Possiblt how the whole universe was created only in six days/eons. Let's recap.

1.-Eternal, the twin photon experiment by Dr. Nicolas Gisen found photons, freed electrons, to be connected to this force. Nothing can go faster than light except this one force.
2.-Omnipresent, this force connects to all freed electrons in our universe. freed electrons are created when matter is converted into energy. This force is everywhere, even beyond our universe! This force is found to be everywhere in our universes past, present, & future which we call time as time does not exist to this force.
3.-Omnipotent, all powerful. Seeing is believing. Wee find galaxies at the furthest reaches of the universe. Not hot gas which was first theorized but old galaxies. How can the light now be reaching us and show old galaxies at the furthest extents of the universe? If light has a speed limit, then how did distant galaxies form long before the universe was said to have begun? This force again shows that it is timeless.
4.-Omniscient, all knowing. Physicist Roger R. Vogelsang found with his STI device that not only could this force communicate but it could read thoughts and knew all things in the past and future. The STI device showed this force to have all knowledge of everything past, present and future.

This STI device was simple and consisted of 4 main components.
1. A radioactive particle (AM-241) that releases freed electrons randomly.
2. A Geiger counter to detect those freed electrons.
3. A KVM switch, used to relay the signal into a computer.
4. A computer using a random character generator to send output to a CRT or monitor.
Sounds simple right?

Yes, simple enough to prove the final attribute is God that connects all freed electrons in this universe. It is now scientifically proved that God exist; but those who do not want to believe, no amount of logical argument or scientific proofs will suffice!
(courtesy Gatemessenger)

pretty cool huh? I think it's probably true. It flows with a certain sense. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand scientists when they talk and do experiments. You don't even need science to prove the existence of God if you have a little faith, or am one of the type who is not blind and walk out onto the front porch and gaze around to see Gods fingerprints everywhere! Wow! praise the creator our Lord indeed! But for those on the fence, or wanting a little proof in this confusing and deceptive world...they now have their proof.
Praise the Lord!

 

[Edward]

I think the double slit experiment doesn't show cognizance of particles Ed. It's a good youtube but please don't think particles have cognizance else you may enter Gaia territory.

What/who's a Gaia?

these are the Physicist's talking brother. I dunno about light knowing that you are looking at it, lol. nevertheless...I (we) know so little about the realities of this world and the spirit realm...that, who knows brother? Maybe it is true. jesus said he is the light of this world and i wouldn't put it past Him and His power to be able to do something like this. Ya'never know!

I watched some vids ahwile back about some japanese scientist, that was experiementing with filming water while it froze, and then looking at/taking pics of the ice crystals. He would play different music while it froze and the different music would cause it to make better or worse looking ice crystals. he also tryed cursing at the water or speaking nice to the water while it froze and this affected it also. He said the best looking ice crystals that he ever got from the experiments was when he prayed to God aloud while the water was freezing. That blew my mind!

he wrote a book called the secret life of water if you care to search for it and check it out. he has vids on youtube also. So if water could be affected by speech...who knows about light brother? it could be!

 

[agua.]

What/who's a Gaia?

these are the Physicist's talking brother. I dunno about light knowing that you are looking at it, lol. nevertheless...I (we) know so little about the realities of this world and the spirit realm...that, who knows brother? Maybe it is true. jesus said he is the light of this world and i wouldn't put it past Him and His power to be able to do something like this. Ya'never know!

I watched some vids ahwile back about some japanese scientist, that was experiementing with filming water while it froze, and then looking at/taking pics of the ice crystals. He would play different music while it froze and the different music would cause it to make better or worse looking ice crystals. he also tryed cursing at the water or speaking nice to the water while it froze and this affected it also. He said the best looking ice crystals that he ever got from the experiments was when he prayed to God aloud while the water was freezing. That blew my mind!

he wrote a book called the secret life of water if you care to search for it and check it out. he has vids on youtube also. So if water could be affected by speech...who knows about light brother? it could be!

Gaia is the belief that all of Creation has being and therefor cognizance. I'd consider this before implying particles have cognizance because Genesis implies only animals have the Spirit ( breath ) of God.

Are you suggesting photons have cognizance ?

 

[Edward]

Gaia is the belief that all of Creation has being and therefor cognizance. I'd consider this before implying particles have cognizance because Genesis implies only animals have the Spirit ( breath ) of God.

Are you suggesting photons have cognizance ?

Those aren't my words brother, those are the scientists and physicists words. I...don't really know, but i do know two things about this. One is that this is what the scientific folks are saying that they're finding to be true, two is, I'm pretty sure that scripture says something of the sort also! IIRC, i read it before something about The trees and mountains praising God or something like that? And in another place, something about the stones would cry out?
Ah, found it! check this out!

Luke 19:38-40
38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.

40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out./

Uhh...what's that mean? Who knows brother? maybe they are cognizant. Wow.

I didn't make this stuff up. Scientists and the Word of God. Both more learned than I. Ed tries to keep an open mind about this planet and reality because things are not what they seem.
Luckily for me, i found faith a different way and didn't need to look for proof first from men of the world. but for all i know, it very well may be true.

 

[agua.]

Those aren't my words brother, those are the scientists and physicists words. I...don't really know, but i do know two things about this. One is that this is what the scientific folks are saying that they're finding to be true, two is, I'm pretty sure that scripture says something of the sort also! IIRC, i read it before something about The trees and mountains praising God or something like that? And in another place, something about the stones would cry out?
Ah, found it! check this out!

Luke 19:38-40
38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.

40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out./

Uhh...what's that mean? Who knows brother? maybe they are cognizant. Wow.

I didn't make this stuff up. Scientists and the Word of God. Both more learned than I. Ed tries to keep an open mind about this planet and reality because things are not what they seem.
Luckily for me, i found faith a different way and didn't need to look for proof first from men of the world. but for all i know, it very well may be true.

So you think non animals have cognizance ?

Oh btw I don't really care what scientists say and I think neither do you.

 

[Edward]

So you think non animals have cognizance ?

Oh btw I don't really care what scientists say and I think neither do you.

Well, first I have to go check to see if you're outside with some officials and a straight jacket...ok, the coast is clear, lol.
i think it is a distinct possibility. This isn't the first time that I've heard of things that are very similar. I've read some stuff before that said something along the lines of certain types of metal have memory, and perhaps other materials also.

plus that book and vids i checked out for awhile "The secret life of water"...man oh man, if you can talk nice to your water and it reacts in a positive way...what are we to think? We're to bless our food also while giving thanks? What's that about? i think this stuff means something, there's something to it.

Remember the expression, if these walls could talk, the stories they could tell? What if they could? I'm presuming that this is on a spiritual level. I've read testimonies of people who went to Heaven for instruction by the Lord, a vision, a near death experience, whatever, and some have said that the flowers were singing. Not just one mind you. A few of these I've read.

The spirit realm is what we know the least about. And we are repeatedly admonished to live for the spirit. i think we have a lot of surprises in store for us about the real reality. Doesn't scripture say that the Lord binds the universe together or something like that? holds it together? In light of all this, there may indeed be a reality and truth behind it.

Still no one outside with a straight jacket, praise the Lord!

Oh yeah, indeed i do not care what the scientists mutter. I don't trust any of them, I keep looking for the Lord to visit me. Many Christians would tell me I'm nuts for that too, lol. i don't care.

 

[agua.]

Well, first I have to go check to see if you're outside with some officials and a straight jacket...ok, the coast is clear, lol.
i think it is a distinct possibility. This isn't the first time that I've heard of things that are very similar. I've read some stuff before that said something along the lines of certain types of metal have memory, and perhaps other materials also.

plus that book and vids i checked out for awhile "The secret life of water"...man oh man, if you can talk nice to your water and it reacts in a positive way...what are we to think? We're to bless our food also while giving thanks? What's that about? i think this stuff means something, there's something to it.

Remember the expression, if these walls could talk, the stories they could tell? What if they could? I'm presuming that this is on a spiritual level. I've read testimonies of people who went to Heaven for instruction by the Lord, a vision, a near death experience, whatever, and some have said that the flowers were singing. Not just one mind you. A few of these I've read.

The spirit realm is what we know the least about. And we are repeatedly admonished to live for the spirit. i think we have a lot of surprises in store for us about the real reality. Doesn't scripture say that the Lord binds the universe together or something like that? holds it together? In light of all this, there may indeed be a reality and truth behind it.

Still no one outside with a straight jacket, praise the Lord!

I think it would be better if you accepted Yahweh manufactured elements which He can manipulate at will rather than that the elements themselves have cognizance. Otherwise you may as well agree with witches

 

[Edward]

Well i'm not into talking to the rocks, lol. There's one direction and focus. Yahweh. To know Him, Seek him, befriend him, obey Him and live in him, and he in I.

But if a donkey begins speaking to me one day, or a bird flys up and says hey would you like something to eat, I'll probably not be to surprised, lol.

You can bet I'll test that spirit though.

...That every photon knows what the other photons are doing...I may not understand it, i may find it very un-natural...But i can not limit the power of God. I must remain open minded and with open heart to receive what truth he may choose to reveal to me. I can't say, no god i refuse to believe that because of the tradition of men. Instead i have to say Lord let me not be deceived, put it into my heart what truth it is that you want me to know...

 

[agua.]

Well i'm not into talking to the rocks, lol. There's one direction and focus. Yahweh. To know Him, Seek him, befriend him, obey Him and live in him, and he in I.

But if a donkey begins speaking to me one day, or a bird flys up and says hey would you like something to eat, I'll probably not be to surprised, lol.

You can bet I'll test that spirit though.

...That every photon knows what the other photons are doing...I may not understand it, i may find it very un-natural...But i can not limit the power of God. I must remain open minded and with open heart to receive what truth he may choose to reveal to me. I can't say, no god i refuse to believe that because of the tradition of men. Instead i have to say Lord let me not be deceived, put it into my heart what truth it is that you want me to know...

Donkeys and Birds are animals with Yahweh's spirit in them. Be careful not to think any other creation has cognizance.

 

[Edward]

What do you think of Luke 19:40 that i posted about the stones crying out? Parable? metaphor? What?
i e-sworded it and stones says
G3037 (stones)
λίθος
lithos
lee'-thos
Apparently a primary word; a stone (literally or figuratively): - (mill-, stumbling-) stone./

Ok...A rock.

Now, cry out...
G2896
κράζω
krazō
krad'-zo
A primary verb; properly to “croak” (as a raven) or scream, that is, (generally) to call aloud (shriek, exclaim, intreat): - cry (out)./

Whoa. This is Jesus talking. What's your take on this passage brother?

 

[agua.]

What do you think of Luke 19:40 that i posted about the stones crying out? Parable? metaphor? What?
i e-sworded it and stones says
G3037 (stones)
λίθος
lithos
lee'-thos
Apparently a primary word; a stone (literally or figuratively): - (mill-, stumbling-) stone./

Ok...A rock.

Now, cry out...
G2896
κράζω
krazō
krad'-zo
A primary verb; properly to “croak” (as a raven) or scream, that is, (generally) to call aloud (shriek, exclaim, intreat): - cry (out)./

Whoa. This is Jesus talking. What's your take on this passage brother?

It's hyperbole

hyperbole
hʌɪˈpəːbəli/
noun
noun: hyperbole; plural noun: hyperboles
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

 

[Edward]

When we have a question, we go to the word to see what all it says about the issue and go from there, right brother?
Ok, have a gander.

Isaiah 55"11-12
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands./



Psalm 69:34
34 Let the heaven and earth praise him, the seas, and every thing that moveth therein./

 

[agua.]

When we have a question, we go to the word to see what all it says about the issue and go from there, right brother?
Ok, have a gander.

Isaiah 55"11-12
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands./



Psalm 69:34
34 Let the heaven and earth praise him, the seas, and every thing that moveth therein./

Ok Ed stick with what you prefer.

 

[Edward]

You think there's that much hyperbole in the bible?
Uh...I'm'a not digesting that well.

so what are these verses telling us?