up on this rock.

[Jethro Bodine]

not a thing wrong with 10-15 its hard support a church expenses on that number .the church can hold 100 easy we have building insurance electric bill etc.. don,t take it as i think about money. if i did i would not took a pay cut to $50.00 a week numbers is not every thing .. but the more you have the more chance of adding numbers to the lambs book of life ** i have pastor ed less numbers for less $$$$$ -- i take care of what ever number that is there. just 6 months ago the church was running around 35 or better not real sure what they had been running. when i returned back . i do believe GOD want his member ship in the local church to grow number most of all in spirit

You did not give me the impression that you were about $$$$...not at all.

I'm concerned that your vision is a little narrow. I'm convinced we don't meet in the church for the sole purpose of evangelism. As important as that ministry is it simply is not the sole purpose for which the church meets. The needs of the body of Christ are far bigger than that.

IMO, pigeon-hole evangelism as the single purpose and mission of a church and you will more often get a stunted, struggling, ineffective body of believers, not a growing, vibrant body of believers. It goes against all reason presently entertained in the church today, but I sincerely believe what I said is true.

 

[ezra]

You did not give me the impression that you were about $$$$...not at all.

I'm concerned that your vision is a little narrow. I'm convinced we don't meet in the church for the sole purpose of evangelism. As important as that ministry is it simply is not the sole purpose for which the church meets. The needs of the body of Christ are far bigger than that.

IMO, pigeon-hole evangelism as the single purpose and mission of a church and you will more often get a stunted, struggling, ineffective body of believers, not a growing, vibrant body of believers. It goes against all reason presently entertained in the church today, but I sincerely believe what I said is true.

let me assure you of my vision it is by far narrow . i am expecting gr8 things .i can not help those who want no help. i dont know about you..but i need all the help i can get. may i ask have you ever been a pastor ?

Ephesians 4:11-16
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. the mission of the church

 

[Hammer]

Did any of us enter into complete and total understandings from the moment they believed?

Are you saying your friend who is on a crusade to eliminate Christian doctrine is a totally new believer?

 

[Butch5]

Christ told peter upon this ROCK..i will build my Church. the LORD JESUS CHRIST is that rock. if we are the Body of Christ why is the Church not Growing by leaps and bounds. in this Body there are many members..correct? paul told us no other foundation can we build on. along with being a wise master builder . along with being told what kind of materials to use. Gold Silver Precious Stone.the type material that will last. if we use wood hay stubble the material of the flesh. then we will have failure. of course the Church is made up of individuals . we then meet in a building that becomes a Church house. where we receive sound doctrine. along with getting fed encouraged . ready for battle out side the 4 walls.

my next question is why is there so much division. i just got off the phone with a pastor friend of mine. who had a visit from 3 men telling him how bad his son is and how he has such a dead end job.
yes the pastor son got in to legal trouble while he was not living at his dad home. him and his wife divorced he moved back home trying to get back on his feet.

i though as Christians we was to help those who need help. i might add that his son is trying to live for Christ. trying to turn over a new leaf * where does it say we are to tear each other down?
i was elected last sun morn for a 6 month time to my home church. to see if it is of GOD that i be the pastor.

our attendance has dropped very low . our funds was low i took a cut in pay to $50.00 a week. i am not looking for a pat on the back for this. but i am concerned do we give up because we are nearing the last days. or do we do as Christ said occupy till i come? as casting crowns sings if we are the Body why is our feet no going. why is our hands not reaching. .why is our Love not showing a better way..

Actually, I believe the "Rock" is the confession that Peter made, "thou art the Christ the Son of the living God." This is the very foundation of the Christian faith.

 

[Deborah13]

You did not give me the impression that you were about $$$$...not at all.

I'm concerned that your vision is a little narrow. I'm convinced we don't meet in the church for the sole purpose of evangelism. As important as that ministry is it simply is not the sole purpose for which the church meets. The needs of the body of Christ are far bigger than that.

IMO, pigeon-hole evangelism as the single purpose and mission of a church and you will more often get a stunted, struggling, ineffective body of believers, not a growing, vibrant body of believers. It goes against all reason presently entertained in the church today, but I sincerely believe what I said is true.

I agree. If a church wants to spread the Gospel they need to train disciples and the only way to do that is to preach and teach the Word. When people are confident and excited about the Word they will tell others.

 

[Deborah13]

let me assure you of my vision it is by far narrow . i am expecting gr8 things .i can not help those who want no help. i dont know about you..but i need all the help i can get. may i ask have you ever been a pastor ?

Ephesians 4:11-16
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. the mission of the church

"equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,"

Yes this is the scripture! Training disciples.

 

[ezra]

"equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,"

Yes this is the scripture! Training disciples.

ty Deborah

 

[ezra]

"thou art the Christ the Son of the living God." This is the very foundation of the Christian faith.

i agree it is but if all we do is confess christ there seems to be a problem. james wrote faith w/o works is dead. works do not save us but follow salvation. one thing for sure if we are not built upon the rock. once again problems.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

i agree it is but if all we do is confess christ there seems to be a problem. james wrote faith w/o works is dead. )

Faith without works is to not really have faith in Christ. IOW, a confession of faith that has no works attached is not really the confession of faith Jesus says his church is built on.

The person who does not work has not truly put their trust in the blood of Christ for salvation. If they had they would be growing up into the image and stature of Christ according to the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

When people are confident and excited about the Word they will tell others.

Bingo!

Instead of a church focusing on beating it's members up with the insistence that they have to be busy growing the church it should be focusing on growing each believer up into their own obedient relationship with God in daily life. From that comes the power to share the gospel with others who you want to see find the life you have in Christ.

edit:
The best salesman is the person who uses the product he sells, and knows and believes for himself that it is a good product that you need to have, too, not the salesman who pushes a product because his boss told him he has to do that.

 

[Mitspa]

Bingo!

Instead of a church focusing on beating it's members up with the insistence that they have to be busy growing the church it should be focusing on growing each believer up into their own obedient relationship with God in daily life. From that comes the power to share the gospel with others who you want to see find the life you have in Christ.

Here is the Key to growing a REAL CHURCH!



Joh 12:32 (ISV)






As for me, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people to myself."

Joh 21:6



He told them, "Throw the net on the right hand side of the boat, and you'll catch some." So they threw it out and were unable to haul it in because it was so full of fish.



Preach Christ Jesus and "His Righteousness" and the Father will honor those who honor Him! Your nets will be full!:biglol

 

[Jethro Bodine]

let me assure you of my vision it is by far narrow . i am expecting gr8 things .i can not help those who want no help. i dont know about you..but i need all the help i can get. may i ask have you ever been a pastor ?

No, I've never been a pastor...it's much easier to tell others how to do it, lol.

Anyone who is a pastor, or is aspiring to be one, has my complete and total understanding as to how difficult a job that is. Your humility is probably the most important thing you have going for you. You're doing good.

Ephesians 4:11-16
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. the mission of the church

IMO, you highlighted the wrong part. You highlighted the parts that everybody highlights who thinks the goal of church is to be busy about our gifts--particularly evangelism.

If you read closely the goal is not how the body is built up. The goal and purpose of church is what we are being built up into. Can you see the difference? The primary purpose of church is not to operate in the gifts that build us up and teach others how to walk in those gifts, too. The primary purpose of church is to be built up into what the gifts build us up into--the image and stature of Christ: Peace loving, compassionate, Spirit controlled people in our workplaces, in our homes, at the grocery store, in rush hour traffic, etc.

I liken the way we see church today to a med school student who thinks that he is in school to help others become med students who in turn will lead others into med school, when what the real purpose and goal is to lead others into life and health and everything they can be. See the difference?

Sure, some med students do stay in the educational system to help others become healers. But the ultimate goal and purpose of med school is to heal people, not make healers, just as the ultimate goal and purpose of church is to bring people to healing and wholeness in Christ and grow them up into everything they can and should be in their daily lives according to the fruit of the Spirit. Walking in their gift is how they, also, will make their own contribution to this greater goal of growing the body up into the head, Jesus Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Here is the Key to growing a REAL CHURCH!



Joh 12:32 (ISV)






As for me, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people to myself."

Joh 21:6



He told them, "Throw the net on the right hand side of the boat, and you'll catch some." So they threw it out and were unable to haul it in because it was so full of fish.



Preach Christ Jesus and "His Righteousness" and the Father will honor those who honor Him! Your nets will be full!:biglol

That's how you fulfill step one in growing a Christian. That's what evangelism is. It's the first step. An important and essential part, but still the first step of several.

It's only one part of what has to happen to grow a person up into the image of Christ. Just as planting a seed and birthing a baby are but the first steps in growing up a member of your family. That's what witnessing and evangelism are. From there people with other gifts train them up to the mature image of Christ--the number one goal of the Christian life. But many think walking in our gifts is the number one, ultimate goal for the church. No. Being Christ-like in character is the number one ultimate goal, and will for the believer. The gifts, as important and essential as there are, are but the tools we use to achieve that goal. They are not the goal in and of themselves.

 

[Mitspa]

That's how you fulfill step one in growing a Christian. That's what evangelism is. It's the first step. An important and essential part, but still the first step of several.

It's only one part of what has to happen to grow a person up into the image of Christ. Just as planting a seed and birthing a baby are but the first steps in growing up a member of your family. That's what witnessing and evangelism are. From there people with other gifts train them up to the mature image of Christ--the number one goal of the Christian life. But many think walking in our gifts is the number one, ultimate goal for the church. No. Being Christ-like in character is the number one ultimate goal, and will for the believer. The gifts, as important and essential as there are, are but the tools we use to achieve that goal. They are not the goal in and of themselves.

I thought that I made a point on another topic? "Chruch growth"
The righteousness and Glory of Christ is the beginning unto the end!
No one can Grow in Christ apart from seeing Him in Righteousness! As you receive Him you walk in Him, as you walk in Him, you grow in His Image!

2Co 3:9



For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:18



But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

So, not sure of your point?

Col 3:10



And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

 

[Butch5]

i agree it is but if all we do is confess christ there seems to be a problem. james wrote faith w/o works is dead. works do not save us but follow salvation. one thing for sure if we are not built upon the rock. once again problems.

Agreed, my point was that most Christians are told to believe that Jesus died for your sins and you'll be saved. That is only a part of the Gospel. Jesus didn't preach believe that I'm going to die for your sins and you'll be saved. He preached the kingdom of God, that's the gospel. Most Christians don't preach the kingdom of God they preach believe that Jesus died for you sins and you be saved. The apostle John wrote.

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (Joh 20:31 KJV)

It's believing that Jesus is the Christ that give one life. This is an acknowledgment of Psalm 2.

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.​

(Psa 2:2-12 KJV)

The word anointed in verse 2 is the word Christ in the Greek text. The Christ is God's anointed king of Israel. We are to believe that Jesus is this anointed king of Israel and is God's Son.

 

[Hammer]

[/SIZE] He told them, "Throw the net on the right hand side of the boat, and you'll catch some." So they threw it out and were unable to haul it in because it was so full of fish.

That reminds of wishes granted by evil genies.

You wish to be rich, you wake up as a 3rd-world drug lord, with the government closing in on you.

You wish to be young forever, you end up as a baby.

You wish for a net full of fish, and it's too heavy to pull in.

 

[Mitspa]

That reminds of wishes granted by evil genies.

You wish to be rich, you wake up as a 3rd-world drug lord, with the government closing in on you.

You wish to be young forever, you end up as a baby.

You wish for a net full of fish, and it's too heavy to pull in.

Yea the "Scriptures" are all just a "BIG WISH"

Jer 13:15

Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud: for the LORD hath spoken.
Jer 13:16

Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.
Jer 13:17

But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears.

 

[Deborah13]

That reminds of wishes granted by evil genies.

You wish to be rich, you wake up as a 3rd-world drug lord, with the government closing in on you.

You wish to be young forever, you end up as a baby.

You wish for a net full of fish, and it's too heavy to pull in.

Are you being sarcastic or do you just not believe what Jesus said?

right hand as in the right hand of God, as in righteousness, as in right believing, as in right teaching, as in teaching the righteousness of Christ,

In this scripture Jesus made a promise and He never breaks a promise.

 

[smaller]

Are you being sarcastic or do you just not believe what Jesus said?

right hand as in the right hand of God, as in righteousness, as in right believing, as in right teaching, as in teaching the righteousness of Christ,

In this scripture Jesus made a promise and He never breaks a promise.

They are not called 'certain' promises without Divine Reasons.

Such 'certainties' can only be achieved by God. And they are never 'left' to our own clever devices.

s

 

[smaller]

I might think that every believer here believes they have in fact fallen upon The Rock. (uh, no we do not 'fall' upon Peter)

Matthew 21:44
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Was this a literal falling on a literal stone for any of us?

Uh, prolly not.

s