Vegan Questions and Answers

[Tofuy]

hello, i'm new to this forum(obviously) and i asked judy if it would be ok to start yet another vegan topic. i'm sure most of you are probably sick of vegan threads so i don't think i'll be starting any others. so how did i get here? violet posted on a vegan forum of which i am a member and linked to some discussions here. i read some of the threads and, to be totaly honest, i'm a little sickened by what i was reading. i think veganism was presented with near total inaccuracy and, as offensive as violet might have been, there were some fairly rude comments she didn't make.

i'm not here to be combative. i'm not here to tell you "you aren't christian". lastly, i'm not here to link graphic material. so why am i here? i believe one of the many things veganism is about is lifting other people up and not about putting them down. i believe veganism is about living life in a beautiful and emotionally fulfilling way. lastly, i believe veganism is not so much a label, or a list of ideals, but rather a direction in which one lives their life. it's not static. having written what i think of veganism, i see it has a good deal in common, on some levels, with the ideal christian lifestyle. i'm not a christian but i'm willing to admit that veganism and christianity are more alike that i'd probably ever considered. i hope no one takes offense at me saying that.

there were several questions presented to violet which seemed very sincere and i would like to discuss them(without calling out those people). so if you posted something you don't feel violet discussed clearly(or at all) then please ask me. i have several questions of my own.

Q: can someone be vegan and christian at the same time?

Q: how many people here have had possitive experiences with vegans?

 

[DivineNames]

Is soy bad for you?

http://goddessdiet.com/Reports/NYDailyNews.htm

 

[Tofuy]

i found a document on thyroid.org that says "soy does not cause hypothydroidism". this totaly contradicts that article, which i think expanded upon some results with a little creative license at the expense of authenticity.
the article blaims soy for "the typical image of an old japanese woman being shrunken and bent over". that just doesn't seem like logic to me(it's not).

here's a good brief description about the history of soy.


edit: oooo, i missed that part where it says the soy industry has clout. soy clout compares interestingly with all the animal industries. check ers.usda.gov with whatever search interests you most. based on the number 140 billion for bounds of soy in the article you posted, i can see there's a lot more dairy than soy.

 

[Nikki]

I can already see where this one is gonna go.

 

[destiny]

Allow me....

 

[DivineNames]

i found a document on thyroid.org that says "soy does not cause hypothydroidism". this totaly contradicts that article, which i think expanded upon some results with a little creative license at the expense of authenticity.

You are sure it can't cause thyroid problems? What about the other claims of harm?

"this totaly contradicts that article"

I couldn't see any reference in there. (No reference in what I posted I know).

 

[Lyric's Dad]

I would be happy to adopt a vegan lifestyle if only the soy bean tasted like a medium rare steak and if my flyfishing was not interrupted. If we can swing that, then I am ready to sign up.

 

[Tofuy]

I can already see where this one is gonna go.

have some faith.

You are sure it can't cause thyroid problems? What about the other claims of harm?
"this totaly contradicts that article"
I couldn't see any reference in there. (No reference in what I posted I know).

the intro has some guy(fitzpatrick) speaking and he's got a darth vader quote on his website in some attempt to make soy look bad. the second section, the woman who says she had hyperthyroidism, sounds like she's describing an allergic reaction. the numbers in the "hundreds of new products" section don't match up to the advertising budgets of the animal industries or related food businesses. the "risk of thyroid cancer" doesn't really discuss possible risks of thyroid cancer(or maybe i'm just not reading them somehow). it says that infants and pregnant women are vulnerable to over exposure. they're vulnerable to over exposure of more than just soy and the section ends saying people shouldn't eat 10 times the recommended amount. i don't know about anyone here but i don't drink 10 times the amount of recommended beer. and as for "deep pocketed soy marketers" i just had to laugh at that. : i wish they had deep pockets! isoflavines are an entirely different post. i need to read up on them again before getting technical. i just thought the whole story read like opinion/persuasion and not like reporting.

the reference is, in the article you posted, paragraph 4 line 2 "suffer from an underactive thyroid(hyperthyroidism)" and in the article i posted, top of page number 7 it says "soy does not cause..". i punched it into google page word search so the link i posted should have "soy" highlighted in yellow.

 

[Tofuy]

I would be happy to adopt a vegan lifestyle if only the soy bean tasted like a medium rare steak and if my flyfishing was not interrupted. If we can swing that, then I am ready to sign up.

so just be kind of vegan. enjoy your fly fishing and steaks and be vegan with other stuff. it does make a difference.

can i ask you, where do you buy your steaks? not just the place, but where does the meat come from?

 

[Tofuy]

Lyric's, i think i might not have made myself clear. i ment, do you know if the steaks you're buying come from a feedlot opperation or from a local farm?

i see under your name you're in salt lake city. i've passed through salt lake several times on my way to moab. there was a wonderful vegan restaurant there called Sage's Cafe. i had a delicious calzone the first time i was there. sadly, it's no longer on their menu. my friends(who are in no way vegan nor will they probably ever eat green vegetables in their life :roll: ) actualy tried some of the food there. they liked it! my friend nate tried the mango smoothie and justin had some cookies and a brownie. it has a really nice atmospher and rates very high on citysearch.com

there are some other restaurants i've been to in salt lake but that one was my favorite. :D

 

[Blessed]

I don't think that a vegan lifestyle is "unchristian" and nor do I think those who decide to consume meat is barbaric.

I am one who does not eat a lot of meat. My meat consumption is once a week if at all. I believe with all things God wants us to use wisdom and do things in moderation.

I also buy meats and vegetables organic and/or natural. I make an effort not to buy processed foods although I will say I am a Starbucks' white mocha coffee fiend.

;-)

 

[Lyric's Dad]

I would be happy to adopt a vegan lifestyle if only the soy bean tasted like a medium rare steak and if my flyfishing was not interrupted. If we can swing that, then I am ready to sign up.

so just be kind of vegan. enjoy your fly fishing and steaks and be vegan with other stuff. it does make a difference.

can i ask you, where do you buy your steaks? not just the place, but where does the meat come from?

Where does my meat come from? Cows, chickens, pigs, and probably a few other stray beasts that get thrown in the mix.

Seriously, I once tried the no meat or animal products thing. I didn't like it. I enjoy meat and believe that God intended for us to eat it. I prefer leather shoes and hooking a fish is just plain fun.

I am okay if you see it differently but I feel that the salvation of human souls is a much more pressing and important issue.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Lyric's, i think i might not have made myself clear. i ment, do you know if the steaks you're buying come from a feedlot opperation or from a local farm?

i see under your name you're in salt lake city. i've passed through salt lake several times on my way to moab. there was a wonderful vegan restaurant there called Sage's Cafe. i had a delicious calzone the first time i was there. sadly, it's no longer on their menu. my friends(who are in no way vegan nor will they probably ever eat green vegetables in their life :roll: ) actualy tried some of the food there. they liked it! my friend nate tried the mango smoothie and justin had some cookies and a brownie. it has a really nice atmospher and rates very high on citysearch.com

there are some other restaurants i've been to in salt lake but that one was my favorite. :D

I have eaten at sages several times. It is very good food.

 

[Nikki]

I don't think that a vegan lifestyle is "unchristian" and nor do I think those who decide to consume meat is barbaric.
;-)

BINGO! I think that was the most wise thing said yet. I am so underweight as it is, that I can't picture myself being vegan. I had a friend that was vegan and even though he was eating everything that he should to give him all the necessary nutrients, he needed meat. He got so sick and once he started eating meat, his health got completely better. Plus, I don't WANT to be vegan.

I have nothing against those that are, but I DO have something against the people that say I'm not a christian because I eat meat. That is EXACTLY what Violet was implying. Plus, truthfully she got on my nerves because she wasn't using enough scripture to back up her claims and she repeated the same thing over and over and over again.

Me eating meat doesn't make me any less of a christian. That's my entire pet peeve with all this vegan talk.

 

[Tofuy]

I don't think that a vegan lifestyle is "unchristian" and nor do I think those who decide to consume meat is barbaric.
;-)

Me eating meat doesn't make me any less of a christian. That's my entire pet peeve with all this vegan talk.

i agree with blessed too. i've met several vegans who just don't understand how to live in this world and i've met some christians who, at the time, seemed like some of the most misguided people on the planet. in my opinion, the insulting behavoir of a vegan who says a christian isn't christian because they eat meat is on the same level as a christian who tells a vegan they're going to hell because they don't eat meat! it's absurd! at least i think so. :o

i'm sorry you have ANY peeve with "all this vegan talk". there should be no peeve. i had peeve with what i was reading and felt strongly compelled to join this board. if i ever give peeve, please slap me. :D

 

[Tofuy]

Where does my meat come from? Cows, chickens, pigs, and probably a few other stray beasts that get thrown in the mix.
...
I am okay if you see it differently but I feel that the salvation of human souls is a much more pressing and important issue.

i don't want to write a big paragraph so i'll make my point quickly. i see two radicaly different types of meat and animal products available for americans. one is produced in far greater quantity, with far greater greater advertising, and at a signifigantly reduced price compared to the other group. </soapbox> :
as a vegan, i know others are going to eat meat. but i see a huge difference between the meat produced by a local farmer and that on a huge factory farm. yes there are "ethical" or "moral" issues on which people swing all over the spectrum. but that's not it. there are also the nutritional and environmental issues too. the food animal industries are the 2nd most polluting industry in america(the auto industry is first). as a young person, i have to inherit this world so i think i have a vested interest in how clean it is. so i think there is a level of importance with environmental concerns.
and there is the even less discussed side about the humans who suffer on account of the animal industry. i learned last year that the fast food industry has a 15% turnover rate for 6 months but the turnover rate for slaughterhouse employees is over twice that in the same period of time. there are very few unions for slaughter house employees and the ones which exist aren't very strong. there seems to be a history of the exploitation of small towns by the big food animal businesses and they like to use people bellow the poverty line as workers. this is getting longer than i intended.

my point is that, as a vegan, i see a difference between localy produced and slaughtered meat and meat from chain groceries stores. this difference can clearly be seen by the effects and by following the trail of the money which is spent on it. this is what i'm interested in and this is how i encourage friends to shop. i would rather they buy meat localy through a small business from a farm they can visit than hand their money over to big business(and at the expensive of billions of animals per anum, etc etc). this is really what i wanted to talk about with this thread. i don't say to my friends "don't eat meat". instead i offer them what i make for dinner and, if they're hungry, they'll try it.

how many people here support their local farmers markets and co-ops?

 

[Blessed]

I do, tofuy! Nothing beats Alaska Grown. :smt006

 

[Nikki]

I don't think that a vegan lifestyle is "unchristian" and nor do I think those who decide to consume meat is barbaric.
;-)

Me eating meat doesn't make me any less of a christian. That's my entire pet peeve with all this vegan talk.

i agree with blessed too. i've met several vegans who just don't understand how to live in this world and i've met some christians who, at the time, seemed like some of the most misguided people on the planet. in my opinion, the insulting behavoir of a vegan who says a christian isn't christian because they eat meat is on the same level as a christian who tells a vegan they're going to hell because they don't eat meat! it's absurd! at least i think so. :o

i'm sorry you have ANY peeve with "all this vegan talk". there should be no peeve. i had peeve with what i was reading and felt strongly compelled to join this board. if i ever give peeve, please slap me. :D

I have no problem with anyone choosing to be vegan. And I also have no problem with someone that is vegan asking valid questions. But I do have a problem with people telling me that I'm going to hell because I eat meat. I don't think I'll EVER understand that. I believe that the heart is more important than what a person eats.

I'm glad we can agree on this:

in my opinion, the insulting behavoir of a vegan who says a christian isn't christian because they eat meat is on the same level as a christian who tells a vegan they're going to hell because they don't eat meat!

 

[Tofuy]

I believe that the heart is more important than what a person eats.

in someways, doesn't the heart dictate what that person eats? or it is just possible that that can happen but not all the time?

i'm not an ecconomist, but i think that makes looking at food particularly interesting. i think most people here are aware of things like child labor, sweat shops, and environmental disasters and, as people who try to be good citizens, we have a level of concern with these issues. i think most people don't like child labor or sweat shops and want laws against them. but how many of those people are willing to boycot products and companies which exploit child labor or use sweat shops? most people don't want to put the time into educating themselves about "if i buy a soccer ball from this company made in this country is it a moraly safe consumable product?" i see america's morals sacrificed every day in the name of convenience and indiffernece. i think this indifference exists naturaly in all of us when we are products of our society; none of us are immune. i think this indifference goes far beyond our food and it'snot a vegan question but a society question.

does anyone else see this?

 

[lovely]

Tofuy,

I know many christians that are vegans!...I go vegan from time to time to get rid of impurities in my body...eating a whole food diet is something I strive to do with my children mostly, but we have vegan breaks in between.

I don't know about the other thread with violet, I am fairly new myself, but I would say that taking care of our body and eating well are good practices, and that God desires for us to do this. I do not believe that the vegan way of eating is opposed to God, but some of the philosophys that get mixed in are. I do not feel veganism is mandated by God either...Jesus obviously ate animal products...although His were a lot healthier than ours in many respects.

Of course, people do things for various reasons and we can not lump them all.

Blessings