Vegan Questions and Answers

[Tofuy]

My most recent encounter though was on this Christian forum when a vegan came on as troll to provoke Christians. She was really rude as she aggressively accused meat eating Christains as being heartless and cruel and doomed for hell. Maybe you know her, I don't know. Perhaps your intentions and feelings are the same as hers but you are trying to show a nice face before bearing your teeth?

you answered the questions i asked in my first post to get conversation started, so i know you read the first paragraph. i elect my first paragraph as a response to your question. don't get me wrong, i do have teeth. but i'm not about to use them to offend anyone without intentional provocation. i only asked you if there were any interesting stories, that's all.

Did you come on this board to enjoy Christian fellowship or to proselytize your religion of vegatarianism?{/quote]
that's a rude and loaded question. i already said why i'm here. and 1/2 my posts have absolutly nothing to do with veganism. this is a combative tone and i'm not going to comment further.

 

[Tofuy]

link 1) http://www.missionislam.com/health/dangers_of_soy.htm
link 2) http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00044475.htm
link 3) http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/26/soy_myths.htm

1)this whole article says that no one should eat things to excess. then it goes on to say what happens if you do. things mentioned in it like that bird study are absurd. animal studies, especial with nutrition, are absurd. the biologies between animals are completely different. cats are allergic to aspirin, yet in us aspirin helps alleviate pain. i liked how it mentioned that post menopausal women use it to control their hotflashes, yes! very accurate stuff there! there's discussion about infants and soy and my reply to # 2) should cover that. then it claims soy is one of the most allergic modern foods. however the article doesn't clarify the difference between allergic and intolerant. there's a HUGE void there. the most popular dietary allergy/intolerance belongs to Africans and African Americans, of whom a striking 90% are lactose intolerant. i read that on a .gov website a few years ago and no longer have the link, but if someone reaaally wants it, i'll go google. read up on food allergies at foodallergens.info.

2)i am disgusted that ANYONE would feed infants or babies anything other than breast milk. they need breast milk. they DO NOT need cow milk, or soy milk, or any other kind of milk. they need milk from their mother or another nursing woman. this is a vital way to pass on antibodies and the exact right nutrition the infant requires. if for medical reasons the mother is not able to nurse her baby, using one of those breast pumps for milk and then using a baby bottle, or having a wet nurse, is vital. i'm shocked when anyone does something else. that's one of the most damaging things you could do to an infant.
and the first non-breast milk foods babies should eat is fruit. dr. spock, he writes all those insanely popular advice books on babies, says they should be vegan at least until the age of 2 but recommends until the age of 6 if possible.

3) i read that the book makes the following arguments:
# Soy impedes the sexual maturation of boys (p. 335)
# Soy accelerates the sexual maturation of girls (p. 339)
# In newborns, the hormonal effects of soy may be irreversible (p. 333)
# The average daily dose of soy estrogens in soy formula (38mg) is higher than the amounts that cause thyroid problems and endocrine disruption in adults (p. 334)
i have no information on soy and the sexual maturation of boys. if barnes and noble has this book, i'll glance next time i'm there on an afternoon reading marathon. soy doesn't accelerate the sexual maturation of girls, dairy does. in japan after ww2, the japanese diet was changed to more closely match the american diet and dairy in very large amounts was entered into the common diet. in 1950, girls reached their first menses at the average age of 15.2. in 1974, they reached their first menses at the age of 12.2, a dramatic 3 year drop. they ALREADY had soy in their diets, the average first menses in 1875 was at age 16.5! this information is from an article by Kagawa, Y., "Impact of Westernization on the Nutrition of Japan: Changes in Physique..." published in Preventative Medicine in 1978. it's been out there for a while. as for infant formal, i already responded to that with # 2)

thank you for posting those links lovely! they don't read like that anti-soy propaganda which was posted. i liked the muslim article the most. they read like exactly what they are, short internet essays. i was kind of hoping they would be published research studies.

Guibox's spaghetti sauce using Yves Ground Round

You take crushed garlic cloves and onions and fry it in whatever frying oil or butter you like, then add in the ground round and put Spike and Lowry's seasoning salt in it and let it all fry for a bit. Then you add in Prego spaghetti sauce and let it simmer. Add in a few more crushed garlic cloves and more spices. Adding parmesean cheese if you have any to simmer with it works really good. Make it a bit thicker by not putting in too much sauce. Then dump in on your spaghetti and enjoy!

Mmmmmmm!

this is almost exactly what i do with ground round! i throw in chopped up green peppers and onions because i've always liked that in pasta sauce. i throw it in with ground round and saute it like that.

:o :-D what a coincidence! :

 

[paisley]

Well, if you are here to learn about Christianity or enjoy Christian fellowship, then I am very happy you are here and I fully accept your vegan lifestyle, but if your purpose is the same as that other person's then I think it is very wrong. I must say you seem to be very kind and friendly, but because of the other person who is obviously one of your associations, I can not help but wonder what your motive is. I wonder if you plan on starting out kind just to win people over and then show your teeth. As for my motive for being here, I live in Asia (we have a lot of delicious soy based foods here) where less than 1/2% of the people are Christians. For me to get to church it is a 2 hour drive one way. Needless to say, the exchange of Christian fellowish is limited for me so to come on this board is a nice little oasis at times. I don't mean to be combative with you at all. I just don't want to see what happened before happen again where figuratively speaking a guest comes into a home and starts beating up his hosts. Of course, it is rude for a host to beat up on his guest too so I may be guilty of that if you are not a Christian, in such a case please forgive me, but also understand a host does need to know who is coming in his home as well which is why I asked. Besides, I think if you ask do we think a vegan can be a Christian, it is natural to ask if a meat eater can be a Christian too.

 

[Tofuy]

thank you for your reply with such open and honest sincerity. i really do appreciate it.

i don't want to see what happened before happen again either. that's why i'm here. everything that violet said was offensive, anti-christian, and very unvegan. the first speaker i ever heard speak about veganism said something i'll never forget: "veganism is not about putting people down, it's about lifting them up." everything violet said put people down and, when i read the threads, i felt compelled to join to undo the damage she had wrought, if the people here will let me.

i'd like to reply to your sincerity with some of my own. no, i'm not a christian. i view the ideal form of christianity as being the expression of inner peace radiating out and affecting all thing possitivly. i believe that religion is a means of explaining life, not the other way around. i view the ideal form of veganism as being the expression of harmonious balance with the outside world bringing about an inner peace. i think both can be exceptional forms of social comentary and means for an excellent and healthy life.

violet obviously didn't do any good for anyone here. violet is not my "associate". she showed up on a vegan forum complaining about being banned from this one(so i read the threads here to learn why). but she wasn't the only person throwing around cruel and spiteful comments. i am NOT here to do that! veganism will stand or fall on it's own merrit, not mine. i can only present it in a possitve way. i do have teeth and i will only use them for myself and those i love. it is the cruel who use their teeth and venom for advancing their agenda, and i read some of that on here(not just violet).

i'm absolutly open to reading and discussing things which i may not practice or even believe in. an educated mind can entertain beliefs wiithout needing to accept them.

 

[paisley]

I am also happy you replied. I feel better now, and I can respect your honesty as well.
Now with that aside and others talking about soy based foods, have you or others eaten mabo-dofu? My family loves it and it was our dinner tonight. We do have a little meat in ours for flavor but for any vegans out there, you can easily eat it without meat and it would still be delicious since the amount of meat for an entire family is only about the size of one large meat ball.

 

[Vic C.]

Who has the higher authority over what is acceptable to eat; Man or God?

That's all I have to add right now. 8-)

 

[bibleberean]

Whose has the higher authority over what is acceptable to eat; Man or God?

That's all I have to add right now. 8-)

Let me guess... God? :o

 

[Vic C.]

Whose has the higher authority over what is acceptable to eat; Man or God?

That's all I have to add right now. 8-)

Let me guess... God? :o

Bingo!

Now, can anyone show us where it says God's people should or must abstain from meats? Surely not here...

1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Tim 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1 Tim 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Tim 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

 

[lovely]

Hi Vic,

You are right there is no Scriptural mandate that says we must not eat meat.

Though some are better for us than others, and the amount we consume is probably way too much. We should be good stewards and responsible in all matters.

The free-range meets, and the organic foods, are probably what is best....if you can afford them.

Christ ate meat. He was not vegan according to Scripture. If Christ, being perfect ate it, then it was the best. Though, it was the Jewish diet and did not involve any unclean meats or fish. However, Christ was not eating processed, nitrate filled, pesticide poisoned, stripped and bleached, preservative added, dye added, chemical added, hormones added, antibiotics added, genetically engineered food. He was eating fresh, clean food, and drinking fresh raw milk. Milk is pasteurized, homogenized and then vitamins are added...the good enzymes that aid in digestion are taken out. And because women have rejected breastfeeding...which is the perfect, digestible food for an infant...allergies to milk start early. Many children suffer with ear infections, digestive disorders, and their brain development is impeded. Oops, sorry about the breastfeeding plug.

Anyway, I think we should not ignore the subject, but not let a specific method become our idol either. All aspects should be considered, and practiced in wisdom, by rightly dividing the Word of God.

 

[Tofuy]

1 Tim 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Tim 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

you left out the rest of that chunk of Tim:

1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

it says tofu is a sacred food! : :roll:
honestly, i don't see how "nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving" relates in any way to "it's ok to eat meat". this passage is about faith and teachings and not about diet. "nothing will be turned away if everything is received with thanksgiving". there are many words for thanksgiving: joy, celebration, politeness, etiquette, and respect! live with respect, humility, and appreciation, which most people don't. there is no respect for animals involved in factory farming.

reading that made me question translations and i came accross a tasty little gem on this page. now i have a sig!

this is my first time quoting any scripture here. i don't really know what else might be implied by it so, just so you know, i'm not trying to offend anyone. i just want to share it. so here's a beautiful passage from Genisis. i love it. it puts into words what i feel in my heart.

Genisis 1:27-30
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. -God creates man
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." -God says to become guardian of Earth
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. -God says eat [description of vegan diet]
30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the groundâ€â€everything that has the breath of life in itâ€â€I give every green plant for food." And it was so. -God says plants are food, again

this looks pretty clear to me.
(side note: first time quoting scripture! exciting! :angel: )

 

[guibox]

The other problem with using Timothy to say 'we can eat anything we want' is that it ignores the context of why this verse was used. The Jews were insisting on ritual cleanliness that food was polluted when touched by unclean hands and unclean vessels. Food sacrificed to idols was considered unclean as well. The fact that it also mentions some who were saying that marriage convenants shouldn't be entered in some cases shows that the issues here was rituals and not specifically universal laws.

The important verse that is ignored by many is verse 5:

Notice that Timothy says 'For it is consecrated by the word of God'. In other words, the word of God tells us what is clean and unclean and what to eat and what not to eat.

So this verse isn't saying, 'Eat whatever you want', but that nothing that the word of God has said is clean is made unclean by rituals. Eating a cow sacrificed to idols doesn't make it unclean for the word of God has said that it is okay to eat it no matter what.

This verse COULD be used against rabid-anti meat eaters making meat eating a moral issue instead of a health issue. However, neither is it saying that anything can be eaten.

Context is everything and not a superficial reading.

 

[Tofuy]

wow! i just read about a very interesting study done on teen children in the late 90's and milk consumption. i find this article particularly interesting because that was the time when i initialy went vegan, and most of my friends didn't. so it directly applies to me. maybe some others on this forum will find it interesting too.

Those who drank more than three 8-ounce servings of milk a day gained the most weight, even after the researchers took into consideration factors such as physical activity, time spent on television and video games, other dietary factors, and growth. The correlation held, even though most of the children were drinking low-fat milk.

"That was surprising," Berkey said. "Apparently this applies to any kind of milk."

read the article here.

 

[6digits]

There is no slapping in Jesus

Jesus is not going to slap you, and I'm going to thank you for Him, and the He in you that brought me to this website.

Hallelujah that I have given up vegan rhetoric in favor of Gospel truth.

Think of all the times you wanted to congratulate yourself for "figuring God out." Well, I've finally let Him figure ME out. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. We know that God is Jesus Christ. There is no difference between God and Jesus Christ.

Now, think back on all those times you ate animal flesh. Were you completely satisfied with such action? I don't think you were. But your "God" your perception of Jesus Christ led you to believe in that sin as acceptable.

Let's begin at the beginning here. Once you realize that God is Jesus Christ and that He created man in his image you begin to realize the demonic hegemony that surrounds "theology" and the teachings of what we revere as "scriptures."

If you are not studying Jesus Christ, you are condeming yourself to Hell! He is God, not just your Lord!

So let's get back to Chapter one of the first book in the Bible, now that we know the New Covenant has replaced the Old Testament. What you saw as a wrathful God is your creator, Jesus Christ!

Veganism, like any other religion... Jainism, Hinduism, Confucianism... all cults. Veganism is a set of beliefs given by a set of men. Men are false prophets, and if you haven't gotten that one...

Go back to one. Noah was a false prophet, as he was a man. He preached meat as flesh. Think of that. Meat actually means "solid food" and everyone on this post... with one exception... fell for Noah's teaching. May Jesus Christ lift you up when you accept him!

Jesus Christ blesses your innocence Tofuy. I hope that answers your questions.

As for the rest, I hope you see that the sacrificial lamb wouldn't sacrifice himself! and that you will stop for a moment and enjoy some nice warm beans and rice with me some time.

 

[Solo]

1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. 14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. 19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. 20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:1-23

 

[Vic C.]

The other problem with using Timothy to say 'we can eat anything we want' is that it ignores the context of why this verse was used. The Jews were insisting on ritual cleanliness that food was polluted when touched by unclean hands and unclean vessels. Food sacrificed to idols was considered unclean as well. The fact that it also mentions some who were saying that marriage convenants shouldn't be entered in some cases shows that the issues here was rituals and not specifically universal laws....

Wow Guibox, I just saw this. :

I wasn't using the verses to cpndone eating all meats. I know there are meats that are good/bad and should be/shouldn't be eaten.

My point was there is no Scripture evidence saying that no meats are the order of the day. You have brought up the very point that some meats are acceptable. Vegans try to tells us that no meats are acceptable. That was my point. They try to tell us we are not following the Bible if we eat ANY meat. :-?

 

[Judy]

• Mark 7:15. "There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man.
  16. "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!''
  17. And when He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable.
  18. So He said to them, "Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him,
  19. "because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?''[/*:m:37534]

 

[Lyric's Dad]

I followed a vegan diet at one point in my life. It was difficult. I decided it was just not for me. I respect anyone that can follow this but must say that imposing it as a higher ideal is just out of line.

 

[John the Baptist]

Peter had a three time Vision. It was in the time period of what most call the new covenant time. Peter was an apostle member of the new covenant church.

He had a battle with the vision's meaning. Acts 10:13-14 He said.. NOT SO LORD! Why did he say that? Do you know??? If you do not know, then you do not know God. HE IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER, HE CHANGETH NOT!!

Now: There are still ones today that still use these verses to tell us that anything can be eaten. Wow! Even with the verses before us in print to read, re/read & study! Acts 10:34-35

---John

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Too much emphasis on food and not enough on Christ.

 

[6digits]

:wink:

ACTS 10 33-35:
"Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.

Then Pe'ter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

Looks like Jesus has Him some work!