Very sensitive subject in the Church world

[golfjack]

John writes, My little children ( because they were saved under his ministry and were his spiritual children), these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

This brings us to a very sensitive subject in the church world. Instead of staying with what the Bible says, some groups divide into thelogical circles or cliques that accept certain concepts whether they are scriptural or not.

It seems that the Church world as a whole is divided into two groups: Calvanists and Arinians.

The Calvanists preached that you could not repent unless God gave you a repentiing heart; that you were totally incapable of doing anything yourself.

Charles Finney preached that if God asked you to do something you couldn't do, then He would be an unjust God, but God is not unjust, and when He said, Believe, He meant you can believe. ( the Calvanists, however, felt you could not believe unless God gave you a believing heart).

Today, there are not too many old school Calvanists, their doctrines have been watered down, but now there are new school Calvanists. New school Callvanism is basically the doctrine of Eternal security, or once saved always saved.

I believe in Eternal security as long as you stay in Christ. He is able to keep you secure. But just because you are a son of God does not mean you are a free moral agent. You still have a will of your own, and you can choose to stay in Christ or forsake Christ altogether.

The ASrminian side is not correct, either. They think that when you commmit the smallest sin you are immediately and need to be saved all over again.

Arminians have the idea that God is like a fellow with a flyswatter, just waiting for a fly to lighyt so He can swat it. They think God is waiting for His children to make just one mistake, and when you do, He is going to swat them. If this were true, there are some people who have been saved 2000 or 3000 times a day.

Then there arew those who believe that God expects us to live above sin. They believe in going on to perfection. I do too, but I haven't arrived there yet. If we already perfect, we would not have anything to go on to.

This is how I look at it: After reading Phil. 3:13: Brethern, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto things which are before.


May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Imagican]

Amen, brother. But one's HEART MUST be in 'righteous MODE' in order to even have this desire to START WITH. And the ONLY way that this IS possible is to have Christ IN ONE's HEART.


But, for those that DO understand this............AMEN.

MEC

 

[Bick]

Ver sensative subject in the Church world

Yes, golfjack, the debate between "The Sovereigntiy of God" versus "The free will of man, has been going on for centuries.

To arrive at an opinion, one must study all the scriptures pertaining to the subjects, using as literal versions as possible, with other appropriate aids.

Being a believer in the 'Gospel of the grace of God' that Paul preached, and thus a member of the Body of Christ, I started with Romans.

My conclusion is that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God;
There is none righteous, no not one; there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. There is no fear of God before their eyes." KJV, Rom. 3:10-18, quoting Psalm 14:2-3; 53:2-3; Eccl. 7:20, etc.

And this is true of those under the law, for "by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in His sight..." KJV, Rom. 3:20

COMMENT: This being true, man 'of his own free will' never seeks for God.
Then, one may ask, how can anyone achieve the righteousness God demands?

ANSWER: verse 21ff, CLV, says it: "Yet, now, apart from law, a righteousness of God is manifest (being attested by the law and the prophets), yet a righteousness of God through Jesus Christ's faith, for all, and on all who are believing, for there is no distinction, for all sinned and are wanting of the glory of God."

FAITH A GIFT: Eph. 2:8-9 says it so plainly: "For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast." KJV.

FAITH COMES BY HEARING THE WORD: "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." KJV. In essence, it is "faith's obedience."
But, we know that many "hear" the gospel, yet only a portion believe.

Why? Because our Sovereign God is choosing whom He wills to be in the church/body of Christ. Starting at Rom. 8:28: whom He foreknows, he predestinates to be conformed to the image of His Son; that he (Christ) might be the Firstborn (pre-eminent) among many brethren; and whom He predestinates He calls; whom He calls He justifies; and whom He justifies He glorifies. See also Eph. 1:3-17.

Bick

 

[AVBunyan]

I believe in Eternal security as long as you stay in Christ.

Then you do not believe eternal security for you said, "''as long as..."

 

[Jeff Mills]

A wonderful post golfjack. In Great Britain you can see sheep grazing high in the hills. There are also goats, but you can hardly tell the difference. I believe these are the people in the church who have become luke warm and the Lord said He would vomit them out of his mouth. When one has truly been born-again, there will be such a fire burning in him all the time. I have had 8 major operations on my back in 2 and a half years plus many more earlier on in life. My fire burned in the hospital even though I was in great pain. They moved me out of intensive ward because I was laughing. I had many opportunities to share Jesus Christ. But.... of course i could turn away from God and be lost....BUT who wants to? Where else is there to turn to? Wow Eternal life in His presence. Hallelujah!

 

[NoDoubt]

Man Jeff, what a testimony of God's sustaining grace upon you, despite what you've been through and still going through. It's few and far between to know folks, like you, whose faith has remained steadfast in Him. Hallelujah!

Golfjack, honestly, who can keep up with all these designer labels of Calvin Kleinists and Armani-ists. How many designer suits does a housewife need? :-D Seriously though, I don't think this is what Jesus had in mind when He said, "come follow Me."

I believe we all have the free will to choose. This free will allows us to make the right choices everyday when we seek His face, His will upon our lives.

Without free will, we would just be puppets on a string and our walk would be much easier. Imagine for a moment if God left us on auto-pilot:

- I would never feel slighted or offended
- I would never have to feel envy or jealousy
- I would never have to partake in gossip
- I would never have to make a choice to forgive and turn the other cheek
- I would never have a negative thought about anyone or situation
- I would never succomb to pride or prideful feelings
- I would never get angry or disappointed with anyone
- I would never be tempted to covet material possesions
- I would never be tempted to have a lustful thought
- I would never make another mistake

But this isn't the case at all, because God does allow us free will to choose Him and to take up our crosses each day. What does my cross look like? Check out the above list. Without Jesus Christ, I am doomed which is why I need to stay focused on Him and His will upon my life.

 

[mutzrein]

For those who are God’s children, the bible tells us that we are born of the Spirit, and as such we are children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Previously we were dead in trespasses and sins, but by the grace of God, His gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ has been given to us.

Now I believe that what scripture says is true. We are born of God without ‘human decision’. A sovereign God chooses to give eternal life to those whose names are already written in the book of life and predestined to receive it. And to this point, none can deny the will of God to bestow the gift.