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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Was Judas saved and now sitting with the Lord in heaven?
- Thread starter Rajesh Sahu
- Start date
chessman
Member
I answered your question, read my answer again if you didn’t catch it. I can believe Judas did NOT believe Jesus was The King of the Jews, The Christ because he said he believed Jesus was innocent of that charge.
You didn’t answer my questions. None of them, from any posts. Indicating just how weak your case from Judas and the thief are.
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
Your post is far far from proving that Judas did not believe. I believe there is every likelihood that Judas BELIEVED moments before his death . And therefore by easy believism doctrine which many believe he is now sitting happily with Christ in heaven
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
I'm willing to have an open debate with all churches and teachers across the globe who are teaching doctrine of " you believe and you are saved ". I do believe rather than expending energy typing furiously it would be in fitness of things to have an open world wide debate on can anyone really be saved just by believing and zero obedience? To me this kind of doctrine sounds more like HERESY.
The answer to your question is: Yes. I do know why Judas continued to follow Jesus when the other disciples turned away from following Him.
The reason I know, is the Bible teaches us the answer.
The answer is: Judas continued to follow Jesus because Judas believed Jesus has the words of eternal life, because Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:68-69
Judas continued to follow Jesus because he believed that Jesus is the Christ and has the words of eternal life.
JLB
chessman
Member
Then answer my relevant questions about what Judas actually stated about Jesus’s charge versus repeating what you believe was in his mind at the time.
Jesus said I never knew you, to someone He never knew and was never saved.
Very likely this refers to a tare.
38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Matthew 13:38-43
- Tares = sons of the wicked one
- Good seeds = sons of the kingdom
Were you aware that there will be some sons of the kingdom, who end up being cast out into outer darkness, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth?
11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:11-12
- the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
JLB
We don’t need to wonder about what was in his mind, but rather what the scripture says.
Judas continued to follow Jesus because Judas believed Jesus has the words of eternal life, because Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:68-69
Judas continued to follow Jesus because he believed that Jesus is the Christ and has the words of eternal life.
JLB
chessman
Member
I asked:
Why did the other disciples turn away from Him at this time? Here’s why:
His teaching (something He just said) was a hard statement, that many of “His disciples” as well as the other disciples found hard to hear and offensive.
Here’s what he had just taught that was hard to hear and offensive to learn. His teaching (which by the way, the word disciple means student) was so hard and offensive that it even made His disciples grumble much less the other disciples (students) turn away because these sayings:
“Eating His flesh and drinking His blood” was such an offensive teaching that it offended some disciples to the point they walked away. But “His disciples” continued to follow Him all the while finding it hard to understand and grumbling about it. None of them understood it at that time, much less had done this saying. Not until Judas was directed to leave the 12 prior to the elements being explained and given, did they actually understand this hard/offensive teaching in “plain words” and partake of Him. But He did tell His disciples why He’d made such a hard teaching:
BTW, you didn’t answer
That’s not even an answer to my question, not to mention an assumptive statement. But you’re close to the Biblical answer by mentioning His words.
Why did the other disciples turn away from Him at this time? Here’s why:
Then many of His disciples, having heard, said, “This statement is hard . Who can hear it?” But Jesus, knowing in Himself that His disciples are grumbling about this, said to them, “Does this offend you?
John 6:60-61 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:60-61&version=DLNTHis teaching (something He just said) was a hard statement, that many of “His disciples” as well as the other disciples found hard to hear and offensive.
Here’s what he had just taught that was hard to hear and offensive to learn. His teaching (which by the way, the word disciple means student) was so hard and offensive that it even made His disciples grumble much less the other disciples (students) turn away because these sayings:
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourselves. The one eating My flesh and drinking My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. The one eating My flesh and drinking My blood abides in Me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent Me forth, and I live because of the Father, indeed the one eating Me— that one also will live because of Me. This is the bread having come down from heaven; not as the manna the fathers ate and died. The one eating this bread will live forever”. He said these things in a synagogue while teaching in Capernaum.
John 6:53-59 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:53-59&version=DLNT“Eating His flesh and drinking His blood” was such an offensive teaching that it offended some disciples to the point they walked away. But “His disciples” continued to follow Him all the while finding it hard to understand and grumbling about it. None of them understood it at that time, much less had done this saying. Not until Judas was directed to leave the 12 prior to the elements being explained and given, did they actually understand this hard/offensive teaching in “plain words” and partake of Him. But He did tell His disciples why He’d made such a hard teaching:
And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you that no one is able to come to Me unless it has been granted to him from the Father”. From this time, many of His disciples went back, and were no longer walking with Him.
John 6:65-66 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:65-66&version=DLNTBTW, you didn’t answer
chessman
Member
Scripture doesn’t say Judas continued to follow Jesus ‘because’ .... of anything. You insert ‘because’ into the Text.
Even the passage you quoted contradicts your weak case:
Read it again and answer a simple question about it (since it’s obvious you’re going to continue to avoid answering my previous questions in the very posts you reply to with questions of your own).
Who does Peter say has the words of eternal life (which Jesus just through saying must be eaten by them in order to have eternal life), the 12 or Jesus?
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourselves. The one eating My flesh and drinking My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:53-54 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:53-54&version=DLNTSimple question I bet you will not answer:
Had Judas eaten The Son of Man’s flesh and drank His blood at this point, yes or no?
Interesting. In John 10, the human race is described as sheep: THE sheep (everyone), MY and other sheep of MINE (saved people), and those NOT of My sheep (unbelievers).
Jesus taught who He gives eternal life to in John 3:15,16,36, 5:24 and 6:47, which is through faith in Him.
Jesus also taught that those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.
So, if believers can become lost, then what Jesus taught can't be true, right? Why would anyone disagree with Jesus?
When a person believes in Christ, they HAVE eternal life.
Jesus SAID those He gives eternal life shall never perish.
This is either believed or rejected. No other options.
If this is really true, then John 10:28 cannot be.
And, if this is true, then salvation really depends on one's own behavior (works), rather than depending wholly on the efficacious work of Christ on the cross.
Which is the Bible's, btw.
From John 6:61, we have this word translated "disciples":
NT:3101
maqhth/$
mathetes (math-ay-tes'); from NT:3129; a learner, i.e. pupil
Another name for "learner" and "pupil" is student.
So my definition perfectly aligns with the Bible's definition.
The "somehow" is because he was a criminal opportunist. He was in charge of the money bag and helped himself to it frequently.
John 12:4-6
4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.
According to all you've posted about saved people, they DO care about the poor and help them. In fact, quoting the passage in Matt regarding sheep and goats is about people either helping others or not helping others. And guess who went to heaven?
So this is not consistent with other posts of yours, in that your argument for Judas being a believer was that he was promoted, etc, even though he never really helped the poor/needy.
No, what we are taking out of Christ's work on the cross is EFFICACY. if one's own obedience is necessary for salvation, then Christ died for nothing. Literally. But we know that Jesus Christ is the Author and Perfector (Completor) of our faith.
Salvation is all of His work, and NONE of ours. Contrary to your posts.
brujaq
Member
Esau sold his birthright for a bowl of pottage and Judas sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver .. He eat the Lords supper unworthily .. I didn't think you could repent unless God gives repentance . Esau sought repentance and couldn't find it even though he sought it with tears ..
Jesus was clear about the fate of Judas in John 17:12 - While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Who is "the one doomed to destruction"? Recall that Jesus was praying for His disciples in this paragraph.
Regardless, it seems to me your position is that one is saved through faith in Christ PLUS obedience. So where was Judas' obedience? I'm seeing none of it.
I think your debate is with the Apostle Paul himself. For this was his answer to the jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved:
"They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
That is as clear as it gets. What the jailer MUST DO to be saved is to believe.
In fact, this is what Paul told the Ephesian church in ch 2:
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
It is by grace we are saved, and that is through faith. Now, please explain what GRACE means.
Second, our salvation is "not by works". Therefore, it's by faith alone, and not by works.
If it were by faith PLUS works, Paul would have actually said so. And so would Jesus. But neither one did.
The view that works have ANY part in one's salvation is what is really heresy.
I'm guessing you're not at all familiar with the meaning of GRACE.
But we'll see if my request to explain GRACE is given.
They did like what He had to say. So what.