Was Judas saved and now sitting with the Lord in heaven?

[chessman]

What does the Bible teach us about how to be saved?

Here, let me help you understand what Jesus taught about how to be saved:

Here’s what Jesus said to a mixed group of people including His disciples (the 12) and other disciples following Him around prior to His death, burial and resurrection:

The one eating My flesh and drinking My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.​

John 6:54-55 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:54-55&version=DLNT

This way to eternal life offended those who heard it, including His disciples. Jesus knew within Himself that His disciples began to grumble about what He just said. They found it (the way to have eternal life) to be a hard-saying to understand. Hind-sight’s 20/20 but at the time, none of the 12 understood Him nor had they eaten His flesh and drank His blood. So He explained such a hard saying as this again to them a little clearer:

This is the bread having come down from heaven; not as the manna the fathers ate and died. The one eating this bread will live forever”. ​

But Jesus, knowing in Himself that His disciples are grumbling about this, said to them, “Does this offend you?​

John 6:58,61 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:58,61&version=DLNT

Then He told the choosen 12 that one of them was the devil and John recalls which one of them He meant in hindsight:

​

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is the devil?” Now He was speaking- of Judas, son of Simon Iscariot. For this one, one of the twelve, was going to hand Him over.​

John 6:70-71 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:70-71&version=DLNT

Then Jesus taught them to not judge according to appearance:

Do not be judging according to appearance, but be judging the righteous judgment”.​

John 7:24 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 7:24&version=DLNT

Then prior to The Feast:

Having said these things, Jesus was troubled in His spirit. And He testified and said “Truly, truly, I say to you that one of you will hand Me over”. The disciples were looking at one another, being perplexed about whom He was speaking.​

John 13:21-22 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 13:21-22&version=DLNT
Before The Feast Jesus identifies the one of the 12 that appeared to Peter as a believer (back in John 6 where Jesus told them how to receive eternal life) but was in fact a devil and only appeared to believe. And Jesus directs Judas to leave them and to continue his devilish work “even quicker” than he’d been doing it:

And after the piece-of-bread, at that time Satan entered into that one. Then Jesus says to him, “What you are doing, do quicker ”. Now none of the ones reclining-back [to eat] understood this— for what purpose He said it to him. For some were thinking, since Judas had the money- box, that Jesus was telling him, “Buy the things of which we have a need for the Feast”, or that he should give something to the poor. So having received the piece-of-bread, that one went out immediately. And it was night.​

John 13:27-30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 13:27-30&version=DLNT

Then comes the Feast (from John 6) whereby they (the 11) no longer just appear to be His followers and still didn’t understand how to have eternal life but the 11 do in fact partake of His body and His Blood, via The Feast, and thereby become Gospel partners (as the Phillipians church and Asian church become co-partners later as well):

“Do not let your heart be troubled. Be believing in God. Be believing also in Me. Jesus says to him, “ I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you have known Me, you will know My Father also. And from now on, you know Him, and you have seen Him”. A little longer, and the world is no longer going to see Me, but you are going to see Me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day, you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. “I have spoken these things to you in order that My joy may be in you, and your joy may be made full.​

John 14:1,6-7,19-20,15:11 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 14:1,6-7,19-20,15:11&version=DLNT

Then Jesus introduces them to another couple of co-partners in understanding how to have eternal life that will help them know “full joy”:

But when that One, the Spirit of truth, comes— He will guide you in all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but He will speak whatever He will hear. And He will declare to you the things coming. That One will glorify Me, because He will take from what is Mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is Mine. For this reason I said that He takes from what is Mine and will declare it to you.​

John 16:13-15 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 16:13-15&version=DLNT

And then The Feast:

And while they were eating, having taken bread and having blessed it, Jesus broke it. And having given it to the disciples, He said, “Take, eat. This is My body”. And having taken a cup and given-thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, everyone. For this is My blood of the covenant— the blood being poured-out for many for forgiveness of sins.​

Matthew 26:26-28 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 26:26-28&version=DLNT

 

[chessman]

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:23



JLB

Do you believe Satan did as instructed?

 

[Douglas Summers]

I asked this:
"Please follow the ToS and provide any Scripture that actually supports the claim here.

Which verse says he "believed for a while"?"

If Peter had answered "we all" or "all of us" then you'd have a point. As it is, it requires quite a bit of speculation and assumption to come to the conclusion presented.

One more thing. If Peter was accurately speaking for ALL 12 of the disciples, then what Jesus said in John 10:28 could NOT be true. Is that your position?

For there is NO WAY to understand that verse other than once given eternal life, which is by faith, the recipient shall never perish.

It's clear that Judas perished in the eternal sense. He didn't go to heaven, for sure.

So, if your claim is correct, then Jesus wasn't. It's that simple.


As of yet, the claim that he ever did believe hasn't been proven. The verse presented REQUIRES supposition, assumption, and speculation to reach the conclusion presented.

I'll have none of it.

Jesus SAID that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. No if's, and's or but's. No conditions for recipients of eternal life as to how to keep the free gift. None whatsoever.

Amen,

 

[Douglas Summers]

Here, let me help you understand what Jesus taught about how to be saved:

Here’s what Jesus said to a mixed group of people including His disciples (the 12) and other disciples following Him around prior to His death, burial and resurrection:

The one eating My flesh and drinking My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.​

John 6:54-55 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:54-55&version=DLNT

This way to eternal life offended those who heard it, including His disciples. Jesus knew within Himself that His disciples began to grumble about what He just said. They found it (the way to have eternal life) to be a hard-saying to understand. Hind-sight’s 20/20 but at the time, none of the 12 understood Him nor had they eaten His flesh and drank His blood. So He explained such a hard saying as this again to them a little clearer:

This is the bread having come down from heaven; not as the manna the fathers ate and died. The one eating this bread will live forever”. ​

But Jesus, knowing in Himself that His disciples are grumbling about this, said to them, “Does this offend you?​

John 6:58,61 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:58,61&version=DLNT

Then He told the choosen 12 that one of them was the devil and John recalls which one of them He meant in hindsight:

​

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is the devil?” Now He was speaking- of Judas, son of Simon Iscariot. For this one, one of the twelve, was going to hand Him over.​

John 6:70-71 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:70-71&version=DLNT

Then Jesus taught them to not judge according to appearance:

Do not be judging according to appearance, but be judging the righteous judgment”.​

John 7:24 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 7:24&version=DLNT

Then prior to The Feast:

Having said these things, Jesus was troubled in His spirit. And He testified and said “Truly, truly, I say to you that one of you will hand Me over”. The disciples were looking at one another, being perplexed about whom He was speaking.​

John 13:21-22 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 13:21-22&version=DLNT
Before The Feast Jesus identifies the one of the 12 that appeared to Peter as a believer (back in John 6 where Jesus told them how to receive eternal life) but was in fact a devil and only appeared to believe. And Jesus directs Judas to leave them and to continue his devilish work “even quicker” than he’d been doing it:

And after the piece-of-bread, at that time Satan entered into that one. Then Jesus says to him, “What you are doing, do quicker ”. Now none of the ones reclining-back [to eat] understood this— for what purpose He said it to him. For some were thinking, since Judas had the money- box, that Jesus was telling him, “Buy the things of which we have a need for the Feast”, or that he should give something to the poor. So having received the piece-of-bread, that one went out immediately. And it was night.​

John 13:27-30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 13:27-30&version=DLNT

Then comes the Feast (from John 6) whereby they (the 11) no longer just appear to be His followers and still didn’t understand how to have eternal life but the 11 do in fact partake of His body and His Blood, via The Feast, and thereby become Gospel partners (as the Phillipians church and Asian church become co-partners later as well):

“Do not let your heart be troubled. Be believing in God. Be believing also in Me. Jesus says to him, “ I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you have known Me, you will know My Father also. And from now on, you know Him, and you have seen Him”. A little longer, and the world is no longer going to see Me, but you are going to see Me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day, you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. “I have spoken these things to you in order that My joy may be in you, and your joy may be made full.​

John 14:1,6-7,19-20,15:11 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 14:1,6-7,19-20,15:11&version=DLNT

Then Jesus introduces them to another couple of co-partners in understanding how to have eternal life that will help them know “full joy”:

But when that One, the Spirit of truth, comes— He will guide you in all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but He will speak whatever He will hear. And He will declare to you the things coming. That One will glorify Me, because He will take from what is Mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is Mine. For this reason I said that He takes from what is Mine and will declare it to you.​

John 16:13-15 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 16:13-15&version=DLNT

And then The Feast:

And while they were eating, having taken bread and having blessed it, Jesus broke it. And having given it to the disciples, He said, “Take, eat. This is My body”. And having taken a cup and given-thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, everyone. For this is My blood of the covenant— the blood being poured-out for many for forgiveness of sins.​

Matthew 26:26-28 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 26:26-28&version=DLNT

Good established teaching to comfort and encourage the soul...Thanks

 

[JLB]

Do you believe Satan did as instructed?

Jesus was speaking to Peter.

23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:23

• But He turned and said to Peter

Peter was opppsing the will of God.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Then He told the choosen 12 that one of them was the devil and John recalls which one of them He meant in hindsight:

If that were true then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

But since Judas Iscariot was not the devil, but a man, we are.


Do you believe Judas was a demon spirit or a human being?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Here, let me help you understand what Jesus taught about how to be saved:

Here’s what Jesus said to a mixed group of people including His disciples (the 12) and other disciples following Him around prior to His death, burial and resurrection:

The one eating My flesh and drinking My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.​

John 6:54-55 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:54-55&version=DLNT

This way to eternal life offended those who heard it, including His disciples. Jesus knew within Himself that His disciples began to grumble about what He just said. They found it (the way to have eternal life) to be a hard-saying to understand. Hind-sight’s 20/20 but at the time, none of the 12 understood Him nor had they eaten His flesh and drank His blood. So He explained such a hard saying as this again to them a little clearer:

This is the bread having come down from heaven; not as the manna the fathers ate and died. The one eating this bread will live forever”. ​

But Jesus, knowing in Himself that His disciples are grumbling about this, said to them, “Does this offend you?​

John 6:58,61 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:58,61&version=DLNT

Then He told the choosen 12 that one of them was the devil and John recalls which one of them He meant in hindsight:

​

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is the devil?” Now He was speaking- of Judas, son of Simon Iscariot. For this one, one of the twelve, was going to hand Him over.​

John 6:70-71 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:70-71&version=DLNT

Then Jesus taught them to not judge according to appearance:

Do not be judging according to appearance, but be judging the righteous judgment”.​

John 7:24 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 7:24&version=DLNT

Then prior to The Feast:

Having said these things, Jesus was troubled in His spirit. And He testified and said “Truly, truly, I say to you that one of you will hand Me over”. The disciples were looking at one another, being perplexed about whom He was speaking.​

John 13:21-22 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 13:21-22&version=DLNT
Before The Feast Jesus identifies the one of the 12 that appeared to Peter as a believer (back in John 6 where Jesus told them how to receive eternal life) but was in fact a devil and only appeared to believe. And Jesus directs Judas to leave them and to continue his devilish work “even quicker” than he’d been doing it:

And after the piece-of-bread, at that time Satan entered into that one. Then Jesus says to him, “What you are doing, do quicker ”. Now none of the ones reclining-back [to eat] understood this— for what purpose He said it to him. For some were thinking, since Judas had the money- box, that Jesus was telling him, “Buy the things of which we have a need for the Feast”, or that he should give something to the poor. So having received the piece-of-bread, that one went out immediately. And it was night.​

John 13:27-30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 13:27-30&version=DLNT

Then comes the Feast (from John 6) whereby they (the 11) no longer just appear to be His followers and still didn’t understand how to have eternal life but the 11 do in fact partake of His body and His Blood, via The Feast, and thereby become Gospel partners (as the Phillipians church and Asian church become co-partners later as well):

“Do not let your heart be troubled. Be believing in God. Be believing also in Me. Jesus says to him, “ I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you have known Me, you will know My Father also. And from now on, you know Him, and you have seen Him”. A little longer, and the world is no longer going to see Me, but you are going to see Me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day, you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. “I have spoken these things to you in order that My joy may be in you, and your joy may be made full.​

John 14:1,6-7,19-20,15:11 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 14:1,6-7,19-20,15:11&version=DLNT

Then Jesus introduces them to another couple of co-partners in understanding how to have eternal life that will help them know “full joy”:

But when that One, the Spirit of truth, comes— He will guide you in all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but He will speak whatever He will hear. And He will declare to you the things coming. That One will glorify Me, because He will take from what is Mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is Mine. For this reason I said that He takes from what is Mine and will declare it to you.​

John 16:13-15 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 16:13-15&version=DLNT

And then The Feast:

And while they were eating, having taken bread and having blessed it, Jesus broke it. And having given it to the disciples, He said, “Take, eat. This is My body”. And having taken a cup and given-thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, everyone. For this is My blood of the covenant— the blood being poured-out for many for forgiveness of sins.​

Matthew 26:26-28 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 26:26-28&version=DLNT

So after all this, How is a person saved?


I always thought it was by believing the Gospel message.


Believe = Saved.


JLB

 

[chessman]

If that were true then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is the devil?”​

John 6:70 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:70&version=DLNT

What part of Jesus’s answer do you not believe ???

But since Judas Iscariot was not the devil, but a man, we are.

So which one of the 12 did Jesus refer to?

Do you believe Judas was a demon spirit or a human being?

A human being.

 

[chessman]

So after all this, How is a person saved?

Maybe (like the 12) you didn’t understand Jesus’s metaphorical hard-saying words and it troubled their heart nor did you evidently hear His plain words. Here they are again in bold red:

“Do not let your heart be troubled. Be believing in God. Be believing also in Me.

• Be believing also in Me.

I always thought it was by believing the Gospel message.

It is. Problem is, Judas died before the Gospel was taught to him. In fact, he was instructed to leave the 11 before Jesus comforted their hearts with the above simplified Gospel and missed out on The Feast of His body and blood.

 

[JLB]

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is the devil?”John 6:70 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:70&version=DLNT

What part of Jesus’s answer do you not believe ???

I believe Jesus referred to Judas metaphorically as one who was siding with the devil.

I also believe it was the case with Peter.


Devil - Strong’s # 1228

• prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
• a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,
• metaph. applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him

JLB

 

[JLB]

Maybe (like the 12) you didn’t understand Jesus’s metaphorical hard-saying words and it troubled their heart nor did you evidently hear His plain words. Here they are again in bold red:

I understand believe is how we are saved.

If you don’t believe this then please tell us what more a person needs to do to be saved.

 

[JLB]

It is. Problem is, Judas died before the Gospel was taught to him. In fact, he was instructed to leave the 11 before Jesus comforted their hearts with the above simplified Gospel and missed out on The Feast of His body and blood.

Judas died before he could repent.

Judas was a sheep a person who belonged to the Lord, then became lost, and never turned back to Jesus to be restored, just exactly like Jesus taught.


11 Then He said: “A certain man had two sons. 12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood. 13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living. 14 But when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land, and he began to be in want. 15 Then he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16 And he would gladly have filled his stomach with the pods that the swine ate, and no one gave him anything.

17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.”’

20 “And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. 23 And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; 24 for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.

25 “Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. 27 And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and because he has received him safe and sound, your father has killed the fatted calf.’

28 “But he was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. 29 So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. 30 But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’

31 “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. 32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”
Luke 15:11-32


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked:
what is your alternative view of how to be saved?

He told us: “it took a hercuken effort”

I wish a verse was cited that supports that. 2

 

[FreeGrace]

The assumption is to think that “we” didn’t include those who continued to follow Him, even though all the other disciples had turned away from following Him, which is what the context and the scriptures so plainly shows.

Your posts are just full of assumptions, without any verses that actually say what is being claimed.

Once again we see that scripture and it’s context, teach us the truth.
JLB

There's no doubt the Scripture teaches the truth. The problem is so many who have misunderstood Scripture or out and out don't believe what has been plainly stated, such as:
Jesus specifically said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28. Just one example.

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked:
"So, "just by" huh? So that's easy believism, huh? Well, then that's EXACTLY what the Bible teaches about how to be saved.

So, what is your alternative view of how to be saved?"

What does the Bible teach us about how to be saved?

I asked first. Please proceed.

 

[JLB]

I asked:
"So, "just by" huh? So that's easy believism, huh? Well, then that's EXACTLY what the Bible teaches about how to be saved.

So, what is your alternative view of how to be saved?"

I asked first. Please proceed.

Believing the Gospel is how Jesus said we are saved.

 

[JLB]

Your posts are just full of assumptions, without any verses that actually say what is being claimed.

I gave you the verse of scripture from John 6:67-69 that teaches the twelve believed Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God, which taught s also about the twelve proving they all believed Jesus was the Christ by their action of continuing to follow Him as the Christ, while the other disciples turned away from following Him.

That’s the context.

Here it is again.


67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
John 6:67-69


This is the second time I have given you this scripture in this thread, yet you say I have not provided any verse to validate date what I claim.



JLB

 

[chessman]

I believe Jesus referred to Judas metaphorically as one who was siding with the devil.

Okay, then; ‘The one of the choosen 12 was siding with the devil’ or ‘a one of the choosen 12 was siding with the devil’ it makes no difference to Judas’ status early in Jesus’s ministry.

So let’s go with your translation for a minute. Early in Jesus’s ministry all 12 disciples were confused and grumbling about Jesus’s teaching on how to receive eternal life. And Jesus says:

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is metaphorically one who is siding with the devil?”
John 6:70 JLB

So the day before Judas and Jesus died with all 12 choosen disciples appearing to be disciples but one being (what did you say a metaphor for the devil) we have this true testimony of Jesus’s prophecy coming true:

Having said these things, Jesus was troubled in His spirit. And He testified and said “Truly, truly, I say to you that one of you will hand Me over”. The disciples were looking at one another, being perplexed about whom He was speaking.​

Then Jesus says to him, “What you are doing, do quicker.​

What had Judas been doing back in John 6??? (What did you say??? Siding with the devil)

So using your definition we have Jesus telling him to side with the Devil quicker than he had been since John 6.

Do you believe he did side with the Devil quicker?

Judas died before he could repent.

Who says someone instructed by the Son of God to side with the Devil (even quicker than he had been before) can repent?


Regardless, He also died before eating The Feast with Jesus.

 

[JLB]

Okay, then; ‘The one of the choosen 12 was siding with the devil’ or ‘a one of the choosen 12 was siding with the devil’ it makes no difference to Judas’ status early in Jesus’s ministry.

So let’s go with your translation for a minute. Early in Jesus’s ministry all 12 disciples were confused and grumbling about Jesus’s teaching on how to receive eternal life. And Jesus says:

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is metaphorically one who is siding with the devil?”
John 6:70 JLB

The other alternative is to believe Judas Iscariot was literally a demon and not human.

 

[chessman]

I gave you the verse of scripture from John 6:67-69 that teaches the twelve believed Jesus was the Christ,

So you believe Peter was right about Judas’s heart???

Here’s Jesus’ answer (even in your translation):

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is metaphorically one who is siding with the devil?”
John 6:70 JLB