Was Solomon a prophet?

[jmt356]

According to Wikipedia:
- Solomon was "according to the Talmud one of the 48 prophets";
- In the Eastern Orthodox Church, Solomon is commemorated as a saint, with the title of "Righteous Prophet and King."
I believe the view of the Orthodox church that Solomon was righteous and a saint is clearly erroneous. The Bible paints the portrait of a man who, though he did receive the gift of wisdom, turned against God and towards idolotry and hundreds of wives and concubines:
King Solomon loved many foreign women, as well as the daughter of Pharaoh (1Ki 11:1). He loved women of whom the Lord said, "You shall not intermarry with them, nor they with you. Surely they will turn away your hearts after their gods†(1Ki 11:2). He had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned his heart after other gods; and his heart was not loyal to the Lord (1Ki 11:3-4).
Solomon built a high place for Chemosh, the god of Moab, and for Molech, the god of Ammon (1Ki 11:7), so God became angry with Solomon (1Ki 11:9) and said to him, "Because you have done this, and have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom away from you and give it to your servant. Nevertheless I will not do it in your days, for the sake of your father David; I will tear it out of the hand of your son. However I will not tear away the whole kingdom; I will give one tribe to your son for the sake of my servant David, and for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen" (1Ki 11:11-13).
Solomon was thus the reason for the division of Israel and one may also conclude that he was ultimately the cause of the destruction and loss of the ten tribes of the Northern Kingdom.
I do not have much of an issue concluding that the Eastern Orthodox position may be wrong on Solomon. However, what is disturbing is that he is "according to the Talmud one of the 48 prophets." Is this true? What do Protestants believe?
I tend to ascribe to the Muslim view that prophets do not engage in deadly sins. This is why the great sinners, idolotors and drunkards such as Noah, Lot, Solomon, etc., were patriarchs and kings rather than prophets. In contrast, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc., were prophets who did not engage in mortal sins (all have some sin, but not all engage in the mortal sins of fornication, idolatry, drunkennees, covetessness, etc., of 1Co 6:9-11).
However, if Solomon was a prophet, then my whole theory gets thrown off. So was he really a prophet according to the Talmud?

 

[Eugene]

Hi JMT356, welcome to CF,net in Jesus' name.

Our sin disqualifies us and has consequence as to our state, but not to our standing in Christ.

Talking of King Saul in 1 Samuel 24:6 And he (David) said unto his men, The LORD forbid that I should do this thing unto my master (King Saul), the LORD'S anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the LORD. At this time the kingdom had been taken from Saul and given to David. Saul still went to paradise at his death. 1 Samuel 28:19. ". . to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me:"

Moses was another; would we consider him a prophet?

Numbers 20:12 . . . Because ye believed me not.

Deuteronomy 32:50 Die in the mount whither thou goest up.

Deuteronomy 32:51 Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel.

Notice that Moses sin was unbelief. He was killed for it just as those destroyed in Jude :5 that believed not.

My thoughts.

 

[jmt356]

Our sin disqualifies us and has consequence as to our state, but not to our standing in Christ.

I am not sure I see the distinction between disqualifying us, having consequences as to our state, and having consequences as to our standing with Christ. In any case, it is clear from scripture that there are sins that prevent us from entering heaven:

1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Therefore, even if someone comes to know Christ, but then continues in or regresses to these sins without repentance, he will not enter heaven.

King Saul regressed into a state of unrepented sinfulness and repeated disobedience towards God. 1Sa 28:19 does not state that Saul would be with the Lord. It states that “tomorrow you and your sons will be with me,” with “me,” referring to Samuel who was in the state of the dead before Jesus’ final judgment.

It seems quite clear that Saul could not make it to heaven. He repeatedly disobeyed God. For example, God commanded Saul to kill all of the Amelkites (1Sa 15:1-3), but Saul spared the king (1Sa 15:8). Saul was bitter and envious towards David (1Sa 18:8) and he tried to kill David (1Sa 18:10-11) twice (1Sa 19:8). He gave his daughter Michal to David in marriage in order to ensnare David (1Sa 18:20-27). He consulted a witch (1Sa 28). I cannot see how a man with a pattern of his repeated, unrepented sin could make it to heaven.

Also, I cannot see how the Eastern Orthodox and some other groups consider Solomon, with his hundreds of wives and concubines and idolatry, to be a prophet. Solomon cannot be compared to Moses. Moses was a great man and prophet. He spoke the words of God and obeyed him. He did have occasional lapses of faith, and his death was the result of sin. All of mankind sins, with the exception of Jesus Christ. However, Moses’ occasional lapse of faith cannot be compared with the idolatry of Solomon or the witchcraft of Saul. Moses’ sins do not rise to the level of 1Co 6:9-10 and do not put his salvation at jeopardy or cast doubt on his status as a prophet.

 

[Eugene]

I am not sure I see the distinction between disqualifying us, having consequences as to our state, and having consequences as to our standing with Christ. In any case, it is clear from scripture that there are sins that prevent us from entering heaven:

1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Therefore, even if someone comes to know Christ, but then continues in or regresses to these sins without repentance, he will not enter heaven.

Hi jmt356. Our standing is the righteousness given us as children of God because we are in Christ and He in us; He took our place in judgment and when our Father sees us, it is in the new nature of Christ. Our new nature sinneth not. 1 John 5:18

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Psalms 23:3 . . . he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Our state which is judged is our walk after the Holy Spirit. If there is progress we read that it is God's work in us. Romans 8:4, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (Not by us), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And there is reward according to our walk. Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

My thoughts and I'll attempt to get to the remainder of your reply soon.

 

[for_his_glory]

Goes to show you are we suppose to believe a mans religion or believe that which God has already spoken. Mans religion will not save you or give you eternal life with the Father.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[Eugene]

King Saul regressed into a state of unrepented sinfulness and repeated disobedience towards God. 1Sa 28:19 does not state that Saul would be with the Lord. It states that “tomorrow you and your sons will be with me,†with “me,†referring to Samuel who was in the state of the dead before Jesus’ final judgment.

1 Samuel 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

1 Samuel 24:6 "And he said unto his men, The LORD forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the LORD'S anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he (Saul who is trying to kill me) is the anointed of the LORD." Just look up the times that David continues to refer to Saul as the LORD's anointed.

When we look at Luke 16:19-31 we see the righteous and unrighteous contrasted; the rich man and Lazarus in the lower parts of the earth. One is comforted and the other in torment. What was the difference? As to man there is none righteous; no not one. It had to be in Whom they trusted. Well to be with Samuel, he is listed in Hebrews Chapter Eleven as one of the worthies of faith, and he would be one of those comforted in Abraham's bosom which later the Lord went to which is also referred to as paradise the thief was taken to and then taken to heaven after Jesus rose.

It seems quite clear that Saul could not make it to heaven. He repeatedly disobeyed God. For example, God commanded Saul to kill all of the Amelkites (1Sa 15:1-3), but Saul spared the king (1Sa 15:8). Saul was bitter and envious towards David (1Sa 18:8) and he tried to kill David (1Sa 18:10-11) twice (1Sa 19:8). He gave his daughter Michal to David in marriage in order to ensnare David (1Sa 18:20-27). He consulted a witch (1Sa 28). I cannot see how a man with a pattern of his repeated, unrepented sin could make it to heaven.

Again our standing with God has to do with Who we trusted in; Jesus or ourselves. But there is consequence of sin which Saul suffered, and the kingdom was taken from him and given to David. Don't forget that David continued referring to Saul as the LORD's anointed even after that.

Also, I cannot see how the Eastern Orthodox and some other groups consider Solomon, with his hundreds of wives and concubines and idolatry, to be a prophet. Solomon cannot be compared to Moses. Moses was a great man and prophet. He spoke the words of God and obeyed him. He did have occasional lapses of faith, and his death was the result of sin. All of mankind sins, with the exception of Jesus Christ. However, Moses’ occasional lapse of faith cannot be compared with the idolatry of Solomon or the witchcraft of Saul. Moses’ sins do not rise to the level of 1Co 6:9-10 and do not put his salvation at jeopardy or cast doubt on his status as a prophet.

Oh but Moses needed the same blood of Jesus covering his sin as did Solomon. The Lord even appeared to Solomon twice. 1 Kings 11:9-10 "And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, 10 And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded."

Here again is the consequence of Solomon's deeds, His brother Nathan produced the lineage from whence Jesus was born.

 

[jmt356]

On a related note, it is important to point out the specific reason that Moses died before inheriting the promised land. It would be inaccurate to say it was because of unbelief. It is rather because he failed to obey God’s commandment to the “t.â€

When the children of Israel came to the wilderness of Zin (Num 20:1), there was no water for the them (Num 20:2). They complained to Moses, wishing they were dead (Num 20:3-4). The Lord then told Moses to take his rod, gather before the Israelites with Aaron and speak to the rock. It would then yield water to give to the congregation (Num 20:7-8). Moses and Aaron then gathered before the assembly and the rock, but rather than speak to it, he shouted “Must we bring water out of this rock?,†lifted his hand and struck the rock with his rod (Num 20:10-11). Water came out of it, but God was displeased, speaking to Moses and Aaron that because they did not hallow Him in the eyes of Israel, they would not bring this assembly into the promised land (Num 20:12).

Moses’ sin was thus to strike the rock rather than speak to it and to shout that it was he, not God who was bringing forth the water.

This sin does not rise to the level of and cannot be compared with the idolatry and adultery of other so-called “prophets†such as Solomon.

 

[Sinthesis]

David was guilty of adultery and murder. Do you consider him a prophet?

 

[Eugene]

David was guilty of adultery and murder. Do you consider him a prophet?

I'm not certain what David did or not did had to do with him being a prophet, but we do read in Acts below that he was, and this testimony is of him in Acts 13:22 ". . he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will."

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

 

[jmt356]

David was guilty of adultery and murder. Do you consider him a prophet?

David was a prophet because:
1. He prophesied. Psalm 41:9, for example, declares “Even My bosom friend in whom I trusted, who ate of My bread, has lifted his heel against Me.†This is a Messianic prophecy foreshadowing John 13:18: “that the Scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with Me hath lifted up his heel against Me.†Psalm 69:9 KJV further declares “zeal for Thy house has consumed Me, and the insults of those who insult Thee have fallen on Me.†This is Messianic prophecy foreshadowing John 2:15-17: “when He had made a scourge of small cords, He drove them all out of the Temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not My Father's House an house of merchandise. And His disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.â€
2. Although he was guilty of adultery and murder, he repented. After the prophet Nathan confronted David over his sins, David recognized that he “sinned against the Lord" (2Sa 12:13). Psalm 51 is completely devoted to David’s repentance and cries out “have mercy upon me, According to Your lovingkindness; According to the multitude of Your tender mercies, Blot out my transgressions. Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, And cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions, And my sin is always before me†(Psa 51:1-3).

Solomon, in contrast, neither prophesied nor repented of his sins.
1. Solomon did not prophesy. Solomon had wisdom, as exemplified in his Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, but he did not prophesy as did David and other prophets.
2. Solomon did not repent. Solomon built altars for the gods of Moab and Ammon (1Ki 11:7), and God became angry with Solomon (1Ki 11:9) and said to him that because of his sin, God would tear the kingdom away from him and allow Israel to be divided in two (1Ki 11:11-13). Unlike David, who when confronted with his sin, immediately confessed and repented, we have no record of Solomon’s confession or repentance. Rather, the Scriptures go on to recount his death and his son Rehoboam’s reign in his place (1Ki 11:43).

 

[felix]

I am not aware of a single prophecy spoken by Solomon for him to be a prophet.

 

[JCitoL]

Solomon is the greatest prophet of old testament's time

Blessings

 

[felix]

Solomon is the greatest prophet of old testament's time

Blessings

Name one prophecy he prophesied.

 

[JCitoL]

Name one prophecy he prophesied.

the prophecies are explanations about the things in the faith, while the forecasts are other thing, and the Truth is that there is no forecast in the Bible, but there are only prophecies, because the Scripture does not give forecast, but just explanations about the difference between the right faith and the wrong as well as their possible appearances/occurrences of the relevant time

1 Corinthians 14:1-26 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy(i.e. but primarily you should be able to explain the difference between the right faith and the wrong, and between the good and the evil). For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen(viz. how it will agree) at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men(i.e. be enough prudent(-ial)). In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all(i.e. it will understand that you testify only good Word), he is judged of all(i.e. and so it will be agreeably touched): And thus are the secrets of his heart made(viz. and thus the childish i.e. the kindness/goodness in it will make) manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."

Blessings

 

[felix]

the prophecies are explanations about the things in the faith, while the forecasts are other thing, and the Truth is that there is no forecast in the Bible, but there are only prophecies, because the Scripture does not give forecast, but just explanations about the difference between the right faith and the wrong as well as their possible appearances/occurrences of the relevant time

1 Corinthians 14:1-26 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy(i.e. but primarily you should be able to explain the difference between the right faith and the wrong, and between the good and the evil). For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen(viz. how it will agree) at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men(i.e. be enough prudent(-ial)). In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all(i.e. it will understand that you testify only good Word), he is judged of all(i.e. and so it will be agreeably touched): And thus are the secrets of his heart made(viz. and thus the childish i.e. the kindness/goodness in it will make) manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."

Blessings

so, how does this make Solomon a prophet ?

 

[JCitoL]

so, how does this make Solomon a prophet ?

1 Kings 4:29-30 "And God gave Solomon wisdom(i.e. spiritual revelation) and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart(i.e. of right faith), even as the sand that is on the sea shore. And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country(i.e. of persia and india), and all the wisdom of Egypt."

Blessings

 

[felix]

1 Kings 4:29-30 "And God gave Solomon wisdom(i.e. spiritual revelation) and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart(i.e. of right faith), even as the sand that is on the sea shore. And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country(i.e. of persia and india), and all the wisdom of Egypt."

Blessings

That is not a prophesy. God even spoke through a Pharaoh. Does that make Pharaoh a prophet ?

 

[JCitoL]

That is not a prophesy. God even spoke through a Pharaoh. Does that make Pharaoh a prophet ?

He is shown as a preacher, then He was a prophet

Ecclesiastes 1:1 "The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem."

 

[Knotical]

He is shown as a preacher, then He was a prophet

Ecclesiastes 1:1 "The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem."

Based on that logic then everyone who preaches in a church would be considered a prophet, yet I do not consider my pastor, who preaches, a prophet.

Not every preacher is a prophet. Solomon was certainly blessed by God, yet he was not a prophet.

 

[JCitoL]

Based on that logic then everyone who preaches in a church would be considered a prophet, yet I do not consider my pastor, who preaches, a prophet.

Not every preacher is a prophet. Solomon was certainly blessed by God, yet he was not a prophet.

the preaching is more or less prophesying, because as we already explained above, the prophesying is an explanation about the things in the faith which the preaching also is

Blessings